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Has Model S quality improved?
- Thread starter Northern Goat
- Start date
Cheburashka
Active Member
I went to the SC recently to get a door handle fixed, I got a new-ish 2018 loaner, and as I went to close the door, the entire door card came off from the inside.
technomation
Member
Amazing the number of "I never have a problem" comments here. Within a day of receiving my new Tesla Model S Performance, experienced the dreaded "door handle will not present." I learned about the "two credit cards and the string of shame" workarounds elsewhere on this forum but they didn't work for me. It will be three weeks before a service ranger can come out and fix the problem. I've owned Mercedes and BMW and any inference that German car quality isn't any better is just false. Don't get me wrong...I love my Tesla but I knew from the beginning that I was signing up for more problems than usual.
Bear in mind that people with no problems are not that likely to join a group like this unless they are geeks like me. So in these kind of groups mostly you will hear about problems. With over 500,000 cars on the road, even a 1/2% problem rate means 2,500 complaints.
Dragonetti
Member
"I am coming from the world of German ICE vehicles and the quality and after purchase care is spectacular. Just getting cold feet form all the posts from other owners."
@ Northern Goat. I'm on my 2nd Model S. The first was an early 2014 S85 which I kept for just over 3 years. The only problem I had during that time was with a door handle that froze up during a 10 below zero stretch in February. It was repaired quickly with no fuss or charge. My current one is a late 2017 100D. I've had nothing which required me bringing the car in for service. I have had a few minor things that, had I been driving an ICE, would have required me bringing the car in for repair, but at this point having become a more experienced user, I've learned to reboot my computer-on-wheels before trying anything else. The over-the-air software updates are, for the most part, fabulous, saving many trip-to-the-dealer ordeals. Once in a while an update comes and fixes one thing while breaking something else, again, like any other computer upgrade/update. Typically, when that happens Tesla is quite fast in finding & repairing the problem and pushing out a fix. Most of the time these kind of problems are relatively minor, not leaving you without wheels. Other times it may take a couple of updates to resolve a problem.
Regarding coming from the world of German ICE vehicles: I came to Tesla from a Porsche 911, which I drove and absolutely loved for almost 14 years. It was a reliable joy to drive and the dealer from whom I bought and had service it was excellent. But there were things about it that I learned I'd NEVER again be willing to put up with in a car. Living in a cold winter, hot summer climate, having to change tires twice a year was at the top of my list. My Porsche drove great in the winter snow as long as I had the summer tires swapped out just before the cold weather set in. Once even an inch of snow graced the ground, the car could barely move. So why am I telling you this? It's my way of suggesting that, unless you're thinking of purchasing a Ludicrous edition, and are really hell-bent on taking advantage of what that means, you'd be better off with stock 19" wheels that come with the normally decked out 100D rather than the 21" ones that you'll need for the aptly named Ludicrous. There's an awful lot of bother and aggravation, not to mention expense, that one has to go through just to get to 60 MPH a second quicker than the next guy.
I think one of the most important things about Tesla, the company, is that they make a effort to fix things as quickly as possible when something isn't right – another huge advantage of over-the-air updates – or when they would like to release a new feature, which could be safety-related, or just something Elon decides he'd like to see in the car. We're not waiting for the "next model year," or the next time (Five years?) the model gets a major change, to fix problems as with most manufacturers. Think about how long seat belt problems went on for a host of manufacturers recently. It became years before that was worked out. Granted, Tesla is a tiny blip compared to GM, Toyota, Volkswagen, etc. but that they're able to turn on a dime while others are driving around in circles trying to figure out "what effect will . . . . have on the bottom line" is a huge advantage right now.
You seem to be doing some research. Great, it's the best thing you can do! Add up the pros & cons. Hopefully the math'll work out well and you'll wind up going for it!
@ Northern Goat. I'm on my 2nd Model S. The first was an early 2014 S85 which I kept for just over 3 years. The only problem I had during that time was with a door handle that froze up during a 10 below zero stretch in February. It was repaired quickly with no fuss or charge. My current one is a late 2017 100D. I've had nothing which required me bringing the car in for service. I have had a few minor things that, had I been driving an ICE, would have required me bringing the car in for repair, but at this point having become a more experienced user, I've learned to reboot my computer-on-wheels before trying anything else. The over-the-air software updates are, for the most part, fabulous, saving many trip-to-the-dealer ordeals. Once in a while an update comes and fixes one thing while breaking something else, again, like any other computer upgrade/update. Typically, when that happens Tesla is quite fast in finding & repairing the problem and pushing out a fix. Most of the time these kind of problems are relatively minor, not leaving you without wheels. Other times it may take a couple of updates to resolve a problem.
Regarding coming from the world of German ICE vehicles: I came to Tesla from a Porsche 911, which I drove and absolutely loved for almost 14 years. It was a reliable joy to drive and the dealer from whom I bought and had service it was excellent. But there were things about it that I learned I'd NEVER again be willing to put up with in a car. Living in a cold winter, hot summer climate, having to change tires twice a year was at the top of my list. My Porsche drove great in the winter snow as long as I had the summer tires swapped out just before the cold weather set in. Once even an inch of snow graced the ground, the car could barely move. So why am I telling you this? It's my way of suggesting that, unless you're thinking of purchasing a Ludicrous edition, and are really hell-bent on taking advantage of what that means, you'd be better off with stock 19" wheels that come with the normally decked out 100D rather than the 21" ones that you'll need for the aptly named Ludicrous. There's an awful lot of bother and aggravation, not to mention expense, that one has to go through just to get to 60 MPH a second quicker than the next guy.
I think one of the most important things about Tesla, the company, is that they make a effort to fix things as quickly as possible when something isn't right – another huge advantage of over-the-air updates – or when they would like to release a new feature, which could be safety-related, or just something Elon decides he'd like to see in the car. We're not waiting for the "next model year," or the next time (Five years?) the model gets a major change, to fix problems as with most manufacturers. Think about how long seat belt problems went on for a host of manufacturers recently. It became years before that was worked out. Granted, Tesla is a tiny blip compared to GM, Toyota, Volkswagen, etc. but that they're able to turn on a dime while others are driving around in circles trying to figure out "what effect will . . . . have on the bottom line" is a huge advantage right now.
You seem to be doing some research. Great, it's the best thing you can do! Add up the pros & cons. Hopefully the math'll work out well and you'll wind up going for it!
This is unhelpful. Every new car is a gamble, the odds are just different. This is why we have lemon laws.
I think its obvious that there are "some" quality problems with Tesla. I really have no idea how many and I doubt anyone else here really does either. Everything on the forum is anecdotal evidence.
I say if you want a Tesla, take the risk and get one. If it doesn't work out.. ok, maybe you never get another one, but you might get lucky (like many of us on here) and get one that's awesome and has no issues.
Personally I had 2 BMW's prior to owning my Tesla. Regardless of whether anything was "wrong" with them, I had to bring them in for scheduled service at least twice a year. Once the warranties were up I wound up having numerous maintenance items that needed to be fixed in addition to the scheduled maintenance. It was typically a few thousand dollars a year. I've had my model 3 for 14 months and so far have had to do zero service, planned or otherwise.
PWlakewood
Active Member
You are absolutely correct but the people with issues think all Teslas have the same issues. Try not to get into a pissing match over it with the ones with issues....not worth it.
2018 Long Range S owner. Trips from Chicago suburbs to Gulf Shores, Alabama have been wonderful! I will not own another ICE vehicle. Looking forward to the Model Y. Full charge now gets me 370+ miles.
This was due to a design flaw in early Model Ss. Failed drive units were refurbished at the factory with some shims, but those would eventually fail again. I believe this was resolved in later years.
I think you are missing the point of Tesla ownership... service is much lower on the list of concerns vs. ICE vehicle.. you do not need oil changes, it has an order of magnitude less parts to break ....i have been in to the SC for 2 minor warranty items(camera, frunk release) in the 2.5 years i have owned my MS ... once the initial bugs were worked out is has been smooth sailing no trips to SC ... i would have been to SC for ICE vehicle probably 5-6 times for oil changes , possibly brakes, and possibly minor warranty items...
the one area I would be concerned is if you have a collision ... getting the car repaired in a timely fashion could be an issue
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Most all auto dealerships have attached service facilities. These service centers are usually packed full of people having problems and doing expensive maintenance and repairs.
FIA (Forum Induced Anxiety) is common on the internet. A couple owners complain about a problem, and make it sound like all the cars have issues, but in reality, most Tesla are pretty reliable, take minimal maintenance, and provide years of reliable travel.
Never heard of an auto manufacturer that could produce volumes of vehicles that had absolutely no issues.
Tesla gets lots of mentions as it is a relatively new manufacturer that is challenging all the ICE manufacturers with a superior vehicle powered by electricity.
Already many congested cities are beginning to make policy to restrict ICE vehicles from entering their heavily polluted cities. Tesla will benefit greatly once they become the vehicle of choice for urban dwellers.
FIA (Forum Induced Anxiety) is common on the internet. A couple owners complain about a problem, and make it sound like all the cars have issues, but in reality, most Tesla are pretty reliable, take minimal maintenance, and provide years of reliable travel.
Never heard of an auto manufacturer that could produce volumes of vehicles that had absolutely no issues.
Tesla gets lots of mentions as it is a relatively new manufacturer that is challenging all the ICE manufacturers with a superior vehicle powered by electricity.
Already many congested cities are beginning to make policy to restrict ICE vehicles from entering their heavily polluted cities. Tesla will benefit greatly once they become the vehicle of choice for urban dwellers.
With this I have to agree. A few months ago I was completely sure I'd get a Tesla but now I've 80% changed my mind. What happened in between, doing research and spending time on the forum...
In my defense (with the argument I'm having with myself) I'm not put off by the potential quality issues, what bothers me more is the lack of certain features (both convenience and safety) at this price range, compared to "similar" ICE cars.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
There are no similar ICE cars. The purpose of Tesla is to wean drivers off the pollution spewing gassers, and convert them to electric transportation. Cities are being polluted by the emissions, and citizens are suffering.
ICE cars offer lots of better features. They are ingrained into our evaluation processes that those features are more important than the negative effects of the pollution.
The amazing thing to me, is that even with the shortcomings of EVs, the number of people deciding to switch to electric, to do their part, is amazing.
Once many switch to EV, they actually enjoy driving more. It's a good feeling.
As a side note, Tesla are very safe and also very convenient. No more trips to the gas stations, oil changes, tune ups, etc. It is liberating to just be able to plug into your garage charger every night.
I understand that this is a hard sell in oil rich Texas, but even there, people are coming around.
ICE cars offer lots of better features. They are ingrained into our evaluation processes that those features are more important than the negative effects of the pollution.
The amazing thing to me, is that even with the shortcomings of EVs, the number of people deciding to switch to electric, to do their part, is amazing.
Once many switch to EV, they actually enjoy driving more. It's a good feeling.
As a side note, Tesla are very safe and also very convenient. No more trips to the gas stations, oil changes, tune ups, etc. It is liberating to just be able to plug into your garage charger every night.
I understand that this is a hard sell in oil rich Texas, but even there, people are coming around.
@Mediocrates
But do you see/feel any difference in the two cars? Put another way, if someone bought a used 2017 model S today with all the fixens (not P), what would they be missing out on from the 2019 version?
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Biggest changes would be the recent Raven updates.
Newer front motor and upgraded bearings for extended range.
New adaptive suspension shocks for smoother and quieter ride.
Latest Version 3 computer for future autopilot enhancements.
Loss of real leather seating. New models are all vegan (vinyl)
Otherwise they are essentially the same vehicles.
The price of a new X100 is about the same as a 2017 X75.
You can save a bunch and still get a great car by buying a nice shape 2017.
Newer front motor and upgraded bearings for extended range.
New adaptive suspension shocks for smoother and quieter ride.
Latest Version 3 computer for future autopilot enhancements.
Loss of real leather seating. New models are all vegan (vinyl)
Otherwise they are essentially the same vehicles.
The price of a new X100 is about the same as a 2017 X75.
You can save a bunch and still get a great car by buying a nice shape 2017.
Thank you for a quick and informative reply!
I should have been more explicit. I have a Jun 2017 100D with all the fixens (not a P) except no cold weather package (Santa Barbara).
“Newer front motor and upgraded bearings for extended range.”
Would I notice a difference in the drive, acceleration or range?
Speaking of battery, I gather the newer model is better. (I am unable to define “better”).
Extended range? Any numbers to provide context?
“New adaptive suspension shocks for smoother and quieter ride.
That sounds good. Especially since I find my car smooth and quiet already.
“Latest Version 3 computer for future autopilot enhancements.”
Yes, and even when the “free processor upgrade” shows up, I gather I still won’t get everything the newer models have due to AP 2 HW (missed 2.5 by several months) constraints.
But, I don’t know if I would be missing the missing features. Would you miss them?
“Loss of real leather seating. New models are all vegan (vinyl)”
Now that is disappointing. Ah well.
“Otherwise they are essentially the same vehicles.”
I was trying to decide if trading in now while the car still has some value (about 50% of what I paid, maybe more if I did a private deal) is worth it. Does not seem to be. The only real features I think I will miss is Sentry mode and dash cam.
Not sure if the deal for free ludicrous for us early adopters is still on the table.... while it really is of no interest to me, it might be “ludicrous” to pass it up.
Discounting the performance, yes, there are differences, and I've been trying to keep track of them. Not all of them are positive, and most of them are based on the differences between the MCU1 (which I think you have in your June 2017 build, mine was April 2017) and the MCU2. I cannot say that all of these differences would be common/universal. I'll attempt to enumerate them:
1. The newer MCU drives both the large display and the instrument panel, whereas the older one only drove the large display. These could be restarted independently in my 2017, but rebooting in the 2019 applies to both displays at once. This is a universal design change.
2. The vehicle takes longer to "start" with the newer MCU. In the morning when I leave (after a night of charging), it takes maybe 10-15 seconds to be ready to drive. In my 2017 model, it was 2-3 seconds. I don't think this is a problem, but I immediately noticed it once I switched to the 2019 model and I had to wait longer the first morning, and I still notice it every day. Both vehicles had the same settings in terms of power savings modes. I suspect this may be universal.
3. The MCU scans USB devices much faster (an order of magnitude faster) for music. However, it fails to resume playback on USB media most of the time when leaving and re-entering the vehicle, and it almost always seems to scan my USB device every time I enter the vehicle. I never had a problem with that in my 2017 vehicle up until the point I switched to the 2019, and it's always been a problem. Many other people have reported this problem, so I think this is common/universal.
4. The large display is notably faster and more responsive. The 2017 would frequently have stuttering problems with streaming music due to the map always being displayed (a community-sourced workaround was to always have the Doodle Pad app up covering the map, which worked but was an unacceptable nuisance). This should be universal.
5. Maybe 10% of the time I get in the car, the Camera app (which I always have displayed) has a black display. I have to close the app and re-open it to get the camera to display. A few software updates back, I had to reboot the entire system to get the camera to display when it would enter that state. This was never an issue in my 2017 vehicle. I can't say if this is a specific flaw to my vehicle or a common flaw.
6. I believe the "Ludicrous" option is now standard on the Model S Performance, regardless of prior vehicle ownership. Having driven a 2017 100D for two years (and enjoyed the hell out of the performance it offered), the 2019 (which is a P100D, not the new-new Raven Performance) is a whole new level of performance. The first time I attempted to go full pedal-down in my P100D (at a location I had done so many times in my 100D), I actually scared myself before I reached full acceleration. I have since overcome that fear.
