Help the wife and I decide between the 70D or the 85!

[lg_golfs]

The 70D was released when I was days away from getting the 85. I am very happy I went with the 70D.

However. I made it a point to look at my normal driving habits and see if the lesser range would be an issue. I also computed in hotter days, etc.

I am also in Southern California, so, cannot speak to the colder weather you are heading to. I do believe there is a calculator somewhere that lets you put in outside temp so you can see the impact it has on range. If it does not then, I personally would recommend the 70.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Wait a couple months until the X comes out and pick up a used CPO P85D for $80k...

 

[Turdbol]

Thank you all so much for the responses! I truly appreciate it and was fully expecting "Didn't you use the search button?" - What a great community this is! I am excited to drive the 85 tomorrow and see what we can decide from there.

Wait a couple months until the X comes out and pick up a used CPO P85D for $80k...

It will very likely be 2 months down the road anyway, I am one of those guys who has to research everything in depth so that I don't make the wrong decision.

 

[neroden]

Is the frunk bigger on the D version of the normal version?

Frunk is bigger on the ordinary version, much smaller on the D version. If that makes a difference to you.

If you actually can wait long enough, and if you're not too picky about which options you get, picking up a used 85D is likely to be by *far* the most cost-effective choice. I'm not sure when we'll start seeing them on the market, though.

If you really love the frunk space, just get the 85. I have an 85 (from before D was available), and I have on occasion used that massive frunk space.

 

[Shortmanz]

There is always the new RWD 70... You could use the $5K savings to get a couple of more options.:biggrin:

 

[MrJones390]

Go for the 70D for sure. You won't miss the few extra miles of range.

 

[kuttakamina]

My vote is for 70D.
AWD is better in snow, and has better handling. It will probably be better on tires too.
Also, the 15 miles of extra range, is practically more like 7 or 10 extra range. You're not going to miss it one bit.
Worst case scenario, the one time in the next 10 years those extra miles will matter, a public charging station (they are everywhere) will top you off with 7 miles in 30 minutes.
Is 30 mins in 10 years worth 10K? You decide!

As background, when I ordered, I downgraded from 85D to 70D, and I am glad I did.

PS: Do factor one thing though, range is hugely compromised in winters - this will applies to all Tesla models.

 

[alexrov]

Why are people saying only 15 miles of extra range? I thought the S85 had 265 miles EPA to the 70D's 240? That's 25 miles.

 

[kuttakamina]

Why are people saying only 15 miles of extra range? I thought the S85 had 265 miles EPA to the 70D's 240? That's 25 miles.

Range is a weird thing, EPA is one thing but look at the range calculator.
Say at 90 degrees with AC on at 65mph, the difference is only 20 miles.
And you probably wont' charge at 100%. At 80% charge, the difference is 16, your driving style will probably mean 13 or 14.
And as the temp goes up or down this difference can change.
.. long story short .. we are splitting hairs over maybe 10mi range diff to 25mi range diff.

Take the average - 18.

Unless you have superchargers every 18 miles, its an inconsequential difference.
Unless in an extreme emergency you can't plan an hour to top off 18 miles, it's an inconsequential difference... with dual chargers, 30 mins.

#0 - Range
Either way, it's not enough difference to warrant range as being the only reason to go for S85.
I feel people in a pre-order stage give way too much weightage to range .. it deserves some weightage, but there are other more important things to consider,

#1 - Acceleration.
70D is faster than S85. Acceleration is a reason to go for 85D though.

#2- RWD vs AWD

#3 - Frunk
I've put all my junk in the frunk, and I almost never open it.
The trunk is huge, and I really really really really doubt I'll miss the larger frunk.
But there are two good uses for a larger frunk,
a) Stroller
b) Spare full size tire

#4 - Price & Value
70D is the most economical and the most efficent.

 

[PoweredByRain]

The frunk size difference between a RWD car and an AWD car is more than just the "microwave" box space between the wheels being missing in the AWD, the rear wall of the frunk is moved forward a several inches in the AWD car.

I think there is a big difference in utility between the two. Rather than try to describe it, however, why not just look at photos?

Model S without front drive unit:
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadt...e/38656606/2012-tesla-model-s-front-trunk.jpg

Model S with front drive unit:
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadt...st/81785344/2015-tesla-model-s-p85d-frunk.jpg

 

[mwulff]

I just looked up the climate data for Missouri and it doesn't look like you will have to deal with mountains of snow and really really bad winters like Norway or Canada. (Foreigner so what do I know?)

But here are my observations (I am a S85 owner myself). With the launch of the 70 RWD you now have to ask yourself two seperate questions:

1. RWD or AWD.

This is a personal thing obviously but there are some things to consider like the ability to start in snow. Living in Scandinavia I have driven a in a lot of snow with just winter tires and rwd. Not a problem and remember that AWD helps you get going, it doesn't help you stop. And as seen above you get a lot of frunk space with rwd and a little less noise inside due to the fact that front motor makes some noise.

2. 70 vs. 85 kWh.

This is the range question. I ordered an 85 kWh because our car is used for 8 hour shifts medical house-call driving. This is mostly slow and local driving but the extra range gives a certain amount of comfort knowing that we will manage the entire 8 hours without any recharging at all.

If I weren't driving those 8 hour shifts I would have ordered the 70 kWh version. It has more than enough range for me in my daily life. But I have great SC coverage. I would recommend that you look at your local area and determine where the super chargers are and choose accordingly.

Also remember that battery performance suffers when it's freezing, take 20% of your range and see if the 70 still is a good fit.

Options I would recommend:

1. Panoramic roof
2. Powered liftgate (premium interior)
3. Coil-suspension (it drives really well and is a lot simpler to repair when it goes wrong).

Good luck with your research.

 

[Max*]

One thing that no one mentioned -- the 85 will supercharger slightly faster than the 70D due to the larger battery.

I went with the 70D, I'm on the east coast though, and there are plenty of superchargers no matter where I go, so an extra 30miles for the 85D wasn't worth the $10k to me. If I were middle of nowhere, I might have gone with an 85D or now a 90D where those extra 45miles matter.

 

[stevej119]

1)
3) The AWD has more starting traction in snow (but not more stopping traction)

While the AWD wouldn't literally have more "stopping" traction, wouldn't it have more slowing traction due to four wheel regenerative braking?

 

[hiroshiy]

Would recommend to choose 85 over 70D, for the following reasons.

- No real need to have AWD unless you need launch power. If you want fast launch, go for 70D. In snow, 85 just work like a charm. It's not definitely like a regular RWD ICE vehicle. Great traction control so very easy to handle in snow and some icy conditions.
- Faster supercharging. You might save a few minutes at a time.
- Bigger range. It just means flexibility. I sometimes plan a long trip and at the end of the trip, I had to top up a bit in some rare cases. In such situations, having extra 25 miles might save you like 30 minutes, finding public chargers, plug in, wait a few minutes, unplug.

In my opinion, in regular driving you have very little chance to try full launches. That means you can't easily enjoy 70D's launch power. You would appreciate shorter charging times and better range from time to time.

 

[mwulff]

While the AWD wouldn't literally have more "stopping" traction, wouldn't it have more slowing traction due to four wheel regenerative braking?

I believe only the rear motor contributes to regen, but I don't know for certain. Also Tesla controls the amount of regen through software and limits it to 60 kW because that is what the battery pack can accept.

So so while a dual drive car conceivably could regen harder than a single drive car it is limited by the battery. So no extra stopping power there really.

What they could do is divide the regen force between front and rear and therefore maybe reduce tire wear and improve grip. But as I said I don't know if they do it.

 

[jeffro01]

If your taking the car to MO, then I'd go with the 85 without hesitation. There simply isn't the charging infrastructure available in the midwest that there is in CA and for that reason alone, combined with the occasional nasty winter storm, I'd go with an S85D. It seems that your budget doesn't allow for both so I'd go with an S85 for the maximum amount of range and the S85D for the AWD if you can stretch it. To me getting the S70, or S70D seems like a range risk but YMMV.

Jeff

 

[glhs272]

One other minor thing to mention. If you plan on keeping your car for a while, say long enough to look forward to a battery replacement or upgrade then choose a flavor of 85 or 90 equipped car. It seems that Tesla has closed the door on upgrades to 60/70 type cars. This is not for technical reasons though, so they may eventually change their policy but don't count on it.

 

[Turdbol]

Ha, I started this thread thinking the consensus would lead one way or another - unfortunately everyone has made arguments for BOTH! and good arguments at that - what a tough decision. We drive the 85 this evening, so let's see how that goes.

 

[spottyq]

Ha, I started this thread thinking the consensus would lead one way or another - unfortunately everyone has made arguments for BOTH! and good arguments at that - what a tough decision. We drive the 85 this evening, so let's see how that goes.

Welcome to tmc !

 

[dsm363]

Ha, I started this thread thinking the consensus would lead one way or another - unfortunately everyone has made arguments for BOTH! and good arguments at that - what a tough decision. We drive the 85 this evening, so let's see how that goes.

85D and problem solved! Good luck.

Agree with going for 85. You can always get winter tires and get most of the way there with that too.