What are people's thoughts on whether they'll eventually offer a HEPA filter option on Model 3, or if a HEPA filter could be custom added after purchase? I have a 2016 MX, and the HEPA filter, perhaps surprisingly, is among my favorite things about the car. It seems like a relatively inexpensive option to provide and one that I don't believe would add complexity to manufacturing.
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HEPA filter for Model 3!?
- Thread starter Brandon332
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- Model 3
There were some threads about this being a differentiator for S and X (the usual 'if you want that, get the premium car'), but who knows.
We may find a lot of options being added to the 3 later in the game. You do pay a price getting an early version (beyond no AWD, large pack, etc.!)
We may find a lot of options being added to the 3 later in the game. You do pay a price getting an early version (beyond no AWD, large pack, etc.!)
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
Is it really the filter itself that makes the difference or is it the biodefense mode in your X?
Both... you get the big filter, but BDM is just a shortcut for external air/highest speed to pressurize the cabin with clean air to keep out the bios
(theoretically).As Tesla moved the hole compartment forward in Model 3 compare to other cars I wonder how mush space it’s left between the frunk and the compartment.
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
I know, just trying to understand what the OP finds most useful about the HEPA filter. It is pretty common to have cabin air filters albeit probably not HEPA grade filter. So if the 3 had a HEPA filter, but not biodefense mode, would it still be beneficial?Both... you get the big filter, but BDM is just a shortcut for external air/highest speed to pressurize the cabin with clean air to keep out the bios
For anyone unclear, I have the HEPA filter and Bioweapon mode since they both come together. While I was waiting for delivery, I was confused about how the filter works during normal (non-bioweapon mode) driving. How it works is that all air that comes through the vents comes through the HEPA filter, including recirculating air and air directly from outside the cabin.
Since I, like most people, hardly ever drive with the climate off, there's always some air coming through the vents, and the result is that the cabin air is always crisp and clean. As I'm sure most people here are aware, there are the large trucks all over the highways that spew the smelly air. Whenever I'm on the highways, the inside cabin is completely isolated from the disgusting smells, and this is all with normal driving without Bioweapon mode engaged. The filter really makes a huge difference, and seems to eliminate virtually all smells with just normal use, so as a result I've only ever used the Bioweapon mode 2-3 times EVER. I think it's kind of annoying because the air blows somewhat loudly, and it's generally unnecessary due to near complete filtration at normal "auto" AC speeds. The 2-3 times were when there were skunks.
If people are wondering why I think the filter is one of the best features, it's because of the following: 1) Internal car smell: In all our past cars, I've noticed that after a few weeks the new car smell goes away and is slowly replaced with a somewhat dank smelling "regular" car smell that I'm sure everyone here is familiar with. Hard to explain, but I'm sure you know that "car" smell that develops as a car ages. I'm 38,000 miles into the MX, and the new car smell has long since went away, but the beauty is that the inside smells like NOTHING. Which is surprising, since we eat Wendy's all the time and sometimes there will be a french fry container in the car. But the filter has completely eliminated any smelly buildup. 2) The "pure" feeling that a Tesla gives you: This is very difficult to explain so I'm going to try my best. The two latest cars I've owned were a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee and 2015 Dodge Challenger. Both cars were great, but the Tesla is very different in that you get a clean, pure feeling driving it. The acceleration/regeneration and lack of engine render the driving experience to feel a lot more "clean", pure is probably the wrong word for it. The filter really kind of puts a bow around that, very hard to explain. 3) Tesla Bubble feeling: Also hard to explain, but when I'm on the highway, I feel amazing because I'm autopiloting and can't smell anything from outside. So I'm not driving, I have my own air, IDK it just feels great because I'm separated from the dirty ancient ICE world out there.
When I was waiting for MX I was not expecting to like the filter much at all. And now, if I go back into the Dodge or Jeep, it feels generations behind because of the smells and I'm like "wow I can't believe it's this bad I never noticed before".
Foxhound199
Member
Not to belabor the point, but the gigantic HEPA filter is what makes biodefense mode possible. You need a very high level of filtration to scrub the air to that quality, but the stronger the filtration, the harder it is to pull air through. For biodefense mode to work, you need to maintain constant positive pressure. This requires pulling even more air in across that filter to achieve that pressure. That's why you end up with that absolutely gigantic filter you see in the X. So the filter is very much a determining factor of biodefense mode.
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
Thank you for the detailed response. I didn't realize the HEPA filter would be that effective on it's own to remove outside smells. I just recall that it was always touted when the X was originally launched that the biodefense mode main purpose was to create the positive pressure inside therefore keeping out the nasty smell from outside.
The HEPA filter is a god send. No more ICE fumes. I almost forget that they exist until I exit my dream car and enter the nightmare that is ICE filled society. My LEAF did not allow me that pure smelling internal cabin environment even if it was an EV. I can't wait until there are only EVs and ICEs are in the history books.
GuyDude
Member
So now that half of California is burning down and the S/X owners are breathing clean hospital grade air thanks to biodefence mode.... we are getting filthy air and lasting smoke damage in the cabin and our lungs. Hopefully Tesla comes out with aftermarket HEPA cabin filter for the Model 3!
Dmagyar
Member
Don’t feel your the only one suffering, up here haven’t seen the sun without an orange tint almost since the fires started. Driving with recirc mode most of the time. Thinking of the day, hopefully soon when the current fires are out, and we get some better air to breathe. Really feeling for the many whom this just isn’t an inconvenience for, those how’ve lost homes, friends and family.
wbhokie
Member
I think that in Elon's recent tweet thread about improvements to your Tesla someone asked for this and Elon stated that it just wouldn't fit.
Found it...
Elon Musk on Twitter
Good, but not hospital grade. S & X were designed to be proof against an actual bioweapon attack. Requires a giant filter with separate acid & alkaline gas neutralization layers. Not enough room in Model 3.
Found it...
Elon Musk on Twitter
Good, but not hospital grade. S & X were designed to be proof against an actual bioweapon attack. Requires a giant filter with separate acid & alkaline gas neutralization layers. Not enough room in Model 3.
Not to rain on anyone’s parade. But bioweapon defense mode is just a software confit to set the fan to high, and close the fresh air door, effectively sealing the cabin.
This can be done in a model 3 and any car with recirc and is sealed.
BDM is just a dedicated setting for it and a marketing term.
The HEPA filter helps. But there are studies of conventional cabin filters performing almost as good.
If anyone hasn’t read it yet, please read this article Tesla “Bioweapon Defense Mode” As Effective as a 2010 Mazda?
Edit: I will say after reading Elon’s tweet about the S and X having separate gas neutralization layers but not model 3. Other cars probably don’t have that. But there’s need to be more studies of whether a sealed/pressurized cabin prevents majority of this to where the filter doesn’t absorb it
This can be done in a model 3 and any car with recirc and is sealed.
BDM is just a dedicated setting for it and a marketing term.
The HEPA filter helps. But there are studies of conventional cabin filters performing almost as good.
If anyone hasn’t read it yet, please read this article Tesla “Bioweapon Defense Mode” As Effective as a 2010 Mazda?
Edit: I will say after reading Elon’s tweet about the S and X having separate gas neutralization layers but not model 3. Other cars probably don’t have that. But there’s need to be more studies of whether a sealed/pressurized cabin prevents majority of this to where the filter doesn’t absorb it
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The Model 3 factory-installed air conditioning fan and its motor were most likely not over-sized for a filter of greater density. Therefore, adding a HEPA-grade, MERV-17 filter will have two negative consequences. First, adding more static pressure to the system will cause the motor to work harder to spin the fan blade and could wear it out faster than normal. Second, and more noticeably, since the same amount of power will be applied to the fan, less air will come out of the vents as energy is lost pushing the air through a denser filter. It's easier to blow air through a standard fast food straw than it is to blow air through a coffee stirrer. Unless you blow with significantly more force, less air will come out. So, while it may be possible, it is most likely not worth it.
I wonder if they will be able to make it smaller eventually. I think having the biodefense mode on the model 3 in China would be worth any additional cost to people who wanted it. If they can afford that, they may end up opting for the S or X though. It could be a future upgrade, but right now it will not work or happen in the next couple years based on the size of the filter without a complete redesign on many parts.
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
I decided to do a little test with a handheld air quality / particle sensor and the Model 3's air filter system. (Sorta like this one done with the Model X and its "biodefense mode".)
With the PM2.5 sensor reading 150 ug/m^3 (unhealthy) this afternoon in the San Jose area (due to smoke from the Camp fire (Paradise, CA)), I found that the Model 3's air filter would bring things down to the 20's in the cabin in just a few minutes when recycle was turned on.
Later, I stopped and made a video to record it falling from 135 to 5 ug/m^3 in less than 10 minutes. It climbed back up to the 80's pretty quickly though when I turned off recycle air and let it bring in fresh air.
With the PM2.5 sensor reading 150 ug/m^3 (unhealthy) this afternoon in the San Jose area (due to smoke from the Camp fire (Paradise, CA)), I found that the Model 3's air filter would bring things down to the 20's in the cabin in just a few minutes when recycle was turned on.
Later, I stopped and made a video to record it falling from 135 to 5 ug/m^3 in less than 10 minutes. It climbed back up to the 80's pretty quickly though when I turned off recycle air and let it bring in fresh air.
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This is really helpful, thanks! Really appreciate you did this, and hope air clears soon for you all up north.
I try to remember to run it in recirc and I'll definitely do that more now. I think it resets modes back to auto when you turn off and turn the car back on, wish it didn't do that...
Elon said earlier on Twitter the 3s filter is second best only to the S/X... but if it climbed back to the 80s, then not sure how great that is (but going from 135 to 80 is of course helpful and don't have another comparison).
In our old honda I did replace the air filter with a 3rd party hepa filter and it seemed to help but as someone else mentioned above dropped the air flow significantly. I think with the data from your test above, frequently using recirculation seems like it may be good enough.
