Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?

[rnortman]

It does work. Maybe not the way YOU want, but it does the way TESLA wants. Many of us have no problems figuring out how Tesla wants us to make AP work. Just like figuring out how to make the radio work. If you refuse to do it according to directions, it doesn't work. I never seemed to have a problem with it. Works fine for me. What ever that's worth.

Yes, it does "work" and defintely not the way I want it to, but I'd argue nobody wants it to work this way. Here is how it works: You have two choices if you want to use Autopilot on straight roads. (a) You can hold the wheel with one hand. This works great but I don't think it's safe. (b) You can hold it with two hands and stare at the dashboard screen to be able to see and respond to the nags. This is obviously unsafe.

I don't think Tesla WANTS it to work this way. This is clearly shitty design. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now -- they optimistically designed the system for "full self driving", thinking it was going to be so awesome that they'd never have to worry about nagging drivers to pay attention. This turned out to be, well, overly optimistic, and a few people died. Now they are staring down the barrel of Uncle Sam's regulatory rifle and trying to do something about the problem, but because of their optimism early on they really have no good way of detecting hands on wheel, or any other way of detecting driver attentiveness. (It's kind of expensive to do this well.)

So nobody WANTS it to work this way. This is a shitty compromise and there's no good way out of it.

 

[MIT_S60]

Who confirmed to you from Tesla these above statements? Give us a name who you are getting your information from.

They still fixed the problem in the latest software update. I call BS, that they did not change something which fixed the problem we were all having. They changed something that has now stopped the false nagging. end of story!

The team that responds when you submit a complaint and "Escalate to executive review" on your Tesla portal confirmed this information to me. That's great that YOUR car doesn't give you false nags, but it's not "end of story" since there are still plenty of us who are still affected by the false nagging. Trust me, I'd happily have the issue resolved so I could stop having to complain about it to get it fixed. (To be specific: I'm complaining about getting three nags per minute even while holding the steering wheel in various positions, NOT about the need to hold the steering wheel, which is a completely different debate).

 

[rnortman]

Who confirmed to you from Tesla these above statements? Give us a name who you are getting your information from.

They still fixed the problem in the latest software update. I call BS, that they did not change something which fixed the problem we were all having. They changed something that has now stopped the false nagging. end of story!

I just took a long road trip with hundreds of highway miles. I did the first part of the trip on 2018.21.9 and the return trip on 2018.24.1. There's no change in the nags as far as I can tell.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I just took a long road trip with hundreds of highway miles. I did the first part of the trip on 2018.21.9 and the return trip on 2018.24.1. There's no change in the nags as far as I can tell.

Do you mean the nags are just as bad or just as good as before?

 

[JohnnyG]

I just came back from a 500 mile trip. I noticed some interesting behavior (very sorry if this has already been brought-up).

1. Sometimes, instead of the white bar flashing first, and then getting the alert beep a couple seconds later, it just does the alert beep as soon as the message pops-up, before the white bar even. This seems random as to when it chooses to do this.

2. It used to be, after the 3rd incident that it gave you the alert beep (meaning 3 separate incidents, not 3 beeps for one incident), the car would disable AP. I received 5 without disabling AP. Keep in mind that, most, if not all, were those weird occasions where it beeps before flashing.

3. Doing 79 in a 70, it would nag every 22 seconds. Doing 65 in a 60, it would nag every 33 seconds. I didn't notice this until at the end of my trip, so I wasn't able to do more testing scenarios (i.e. is it variable based on speed alone, or amount over the limit, or combination).

 

[RDoc]

We just did a trip of over 700 miles, almost all on AP1 with 2018.21.9 and had maybe 3 nags the entire time. I just hold the wheel comfortably tight at about 8 o'clock with some down force and was quite comfortable the whole way.

It's certainly more sensitive than previously, but at least for my wife and I, it's fine.

 

[rnortman]

1. Sometimes, instead of the white bar flashing first, and then getting the alert beep a couple seconds later, it just does the alert beep as soon as the message pops-up, before the white bar even. This seems random as to when it chooses to do this.

I've noticed this also. There's a particular intersection (divided local road, I think it's technically a highway but it has an intersection) where this has happened to me a couple of times. I think the intersection is confusing to it and it gets very nervous and wants immediate feedback from the driver -- there is no warning, just straight to the beeps. But it's also not the red "take over now" alert; it's the normal "apply light force" (or whatever the new message is); it doesn't disengage.

 

[rnortman]

We just did a trip of over 700 miles, almost all on AP1 with 2018.21.9 and had maybe 3 nags the entire time. I just hold the wheel comfortably tight at about 8 o'clock with some down force and was quite comfortable the whole way.

So I interpret this to mean that you hold the wheel with one hand at 8 o'clock? Yes, that works fine to avoid the nags. That is not what we're complaining about if you actually read the posts in this thread. The complaint is that if you drive with two hands on the wheel it nags you, because it can't detect two hands on the wheel because the weight of one balances out the weight of the other and the net force is near zero. (At least on straight roads.)

Some of us don't trust Autosteer enough to have only one hand on the wheel.

 

[Rockster]

So I interpret this to mean that you hold the wheel with one hand at 8 o'clock? Yes, that works fine to avoid the nags. That is not what we're complaining about if you actually read the posts in this thread. The complaint is that if you drive with two hands on the wheel it nags you, because it can't detect two hands on the wheel because the weight of one balances out the weight of the other and the net force is near zero. (At least on straight roads.)

Some of us don't trust Autosteer enough to have only one hand on the wheel.

This exactly.

I was on a road trip on Wednesday (AP1, Model S) on a road with a speed limit of 75, so I had the speed set to 80. (This is Texas; going 80 in a 75 zone is considered driving slow!) I'm not comfortable holding the wheel with one hand at those speeds, so I was forced to watch the dash way more than I otherwise would and wiggle the wheel unnaturally to satisfy the nags. I could have held the wheel less safely by using just one hand, not used AP, or slowed to something significantly below 75 so that I was comfortable with one hand driving, but those options are all unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons.

In short, AP's current implementation forces me to drive less safely to use it, which I'm certain is not Tesla's intention.

 

[rnortman]

Here's another concrete example from the long road trip I just got back from -- with a lot of highway miles, and a lot of that on very straight flat Midwestern highways.

For a lot of this, I was so fed up with the nags that I resorted to one-handed driving. This is usually pretty safe on a straight, flat, well-marked highway without a lot of traffic, especially in daytime. But then I encountered a situation where I suddenly found myself in the middle of a cluster of vehicles, pinned in on all sides, with a truck that was behaving somewhat erratically in the lane right next to me. I instinctively moved both hands to the wheel with a firm grip, ready to take action if necessary. And of course, that's when Autosteer started beeping at me -- right at the moment when I was most attentive and most needed to be paying attention to the road, the Tesla system distracted me with an alert to pay attention -- my attention was drawn from the vehicles around me to the dashboard screen.

That is why this system cannot be tolerated. Please contact Tesla and tell them to fix this. We need to keep complaining until they do something reasonable.

 

[Marshallo]

The team that responds when you submit a complaint and "Escalate to executive review" on your Tesla portal confirmed this information to me. That's great that YOUR car doesn't give you false nags, but it's not "end of story" since there are still plenty of us who are still affected by the false nagging. Trust me, I'd happily have the issue resolved so I could stop having to complain about it to get it fixed. (To be specific: I'm complaining about getting three nags per minute even while holding the steering wheel in various positions, NOT about the need to hold the steering wheel, which is a completely different debate).

MIT

After driving a little more and taking the time to observe closer how things are working since the last software update, I still think that they changed something in the latest software update that made the steering wheel more sensitive to movement and sensing when you have your hands on the wheel. But I still do get the false nags on the screens, (when I drive and am usually looking at traffic not down at the screen) but they no longer escalate to "disabling the autopilot" They changed something but probably are not admitting to it! They don't want to admit that they screwed things up in the first place.

I do agree with you about getting the false nags even when holding the steering wheel in various positions.

I will be submitting a complaint to Tesla about this and I hope everyone else does as well until they fix it.

Tesla more needs to be done to fix this.
I paid for this feature and want it to work correctly!

 

[Marshallo]

Everyone having issues with your autopilot should file a complaint with Tesla. They need to hear back from owners that they have screwed things up with autopilot in the two software updates.

Here is how to file a complaint.

1) Log into your Tesla.com account.
2) Click Manage on the left next to your vehicle
3) Scroll down to Support
4) Select Subject Line "Escalate this concern for executive review"

Type in your own words the issues that you are now having with autopilot since the last two software updates broke the functionality of your autopilot.

Here is what I wrote.

The Autopilot feature not working correctly since the last two software updates in my model S which was purchased this year. I see many other owners having the same exact issue on teslamotorclub.com forums. This is a wide spread issue that you have created. I am very upset at the recent software updates that have basically broken the autopilot functionality on my Model S. I paid 5K for the autopilot feature when I bought the vehicle and expect it to work properly. It used to work reasonably well. I used it every day in my daily commute to and from work. Since the last two software updates the false screen nags telling me to "put my hands on the wheel" every 30 or so seconds (WHEN MY HANDS ARE ON THE WHEEL) is crazy. The vehicle also keeps disabling the autopilot function all together for the rest of the drive, even though my hands are on the wheel the whole time. This is pure craziness. Please fix this so that the autopilot feature will be usable again. If you have any questions regarding this issue you can call me directly on my cell phone or email me.

From you Tesla Kool-Aid drinkers that are going to reply to this post and tell me that I am not holding the steering wheel right, just don't bother.

 

[boonedocks]

Everyone having issues with your autopilot should file a complaint with Tesla. They need to hear back from owners that they have screwed things up with autopilot in the two software updates.

Here is how to file a complaint.

1) Log into your Tesla.com account.
2) Click Manage on the left next to your vehicle
3) Scroll down to Support
4) Select Subject Line "Escalate this concern for executive review"

Type in your own words the issues that you are now having with autopilot since the last two software updates broke the functionality of your autopilot.

Here is what I wrote.

The Autopilot feature not working correctly since the last two software updates in my model S which was purchased this year. I see many other owners having the same exact issue on teslamotorclub.com forums. This is a wide spread issue that you have created. I am very upset at the recent software updates that have basically broken the autopilot functionality on my Model S. I paid 5K for the autopilot feature when I bought the vehicle and expect it to work properly. It used to work reasonably well. I used it every day in my daily commute to and from work. Since the last two software updates the false screen nags telling me to "put my hands on the wheel" every 30 or so seconds (WHEN MY HANDS ARE ON THE WHEEL) is crazy. The vehicle also keeps disabling the autopilot function all together for the rest of the drive, even though my hands are on the wheel the whole time. This is pure craziness. Please fix this so that the autopilot feature will be usable again. If you have any questions regarding this issue you can call me directly on my cell phone or email me.

From you Tesla Kool-Aid drinkers that are going to reply to this post and tell me that I am not holding the steering wheel right, just don't bother.

Oh don’t worry, the KoolAid brigade will be here soon to tell you what you are doing wrong. Smh smh. I, like you, don’t think having to constantly do the opposite of what is “normal” with driving your car is okay!!

 

[MTOman]

Telsa can tell you had a nag elimination device on your steering wheel because of the constant torque in one direction.

Greaaaat, now I have to adjust how I hold the wheel since hanging my hand on it is going to apply constant torque in one direction which Tesla will use to "prove" I defeated AP nags when I inevitably get in a wreck and kill a bunch of people, because that's exactly what happens when you don't wiggle the wheel back and forth every few seconds

This is the thread for discussing the 2018.24.1 software update. Let’s not derail this thread with talk of nags and nag defeating strategies.

But isn't the nag an awesome new feature we get to enjoy if we're upgrading from an older version? Where should we discuss new features found in the firmware if not in the firmware thread?

Maybe this post belongs somewhere else but I think having to constantly glance down at the IC to make sure it's not flashing at you, remembering to wiggle the wheel every few seconds and being beeped at when it doesn't detect your hand feels much more distracting, and thus more dangerous, than paying attention to the road while on AP. Someone is going to get killed because of these distractions! But at least Tesla won't get sued so it's all good

 

[bmah]

But isn't the nag an awesome new feature we get to enjoy if we're upgrading from an older version? Where should we discuss new features found in the firmware if not in the firmware thread?

Ignoring the humor/sarcasm, the point here is that the nag is not specific to this firmware version. The prior firmware thread (2018.21.9) got taken over by discussion of the nag and related topics. The result was that anyone looking for any other information about 2018.21.9 wouldn’t be able to find it.

Bruce.

 

[rnortman]

There is a thread here devoted to discussion of nags: Hold Steering Wheel ever 20-25 seconds?

 

[Marshallo]

Here is my response to the email I received from Tesla after filing a complaint to "escalate to exectutive review"

The generic email that I received back from Tesla is so weak!

I am kind of disappointed in the company.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mr Cohen,

I appreciate your reply to my concern.

However, your reply was very generic and does not really explain what Tesla plans to do about fixing the issue, other than "logging my feedback in the system".

I certainly know that I am not the only one with this issue and that this is not the first time you have received this complaint regarding the autopilot.

Can you refer me to someone at Tesla that can actually answer my question and complaint on when this problem will be solved.

The recent firmware updates of my vehicle have made my autopilot not worth using.

I would have thought that detailed testing would be done before official firmware updates where released to customers that had the ability to make a five thousand dollar feature on their vehicle useless.

Why should I have to apply light resistance as the autopilot steers the vehicle and the vehicle is doing what it should be doing.

My commute is mostly southern California freeways, most of the commute is long straight sections of the freeway.

It is un-natural for me to have to apply light pressure to steer the wheel if the autopilot is keeping the vehicle in the center of the lane.

It is basically defeating the whole purpose of using autopilot in the first place.


Thank you for your help in this matter.


Marshall O


From: Customer Support Tesla [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 6:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tesla Account Escalate email - VIN XXXXXXXXXXX


Dear Mr. XXXX

Thank you for reaching out to Tesla Inc.

I am sorry hearing you are disappointed with the changes brought by the recent firmware updates of your vehicle. As you may know, Autosteer detects your hands by recognizing light resistance as the steering wheel turns, or from you manually turning the steering wheel very lightly.

With that said, I have well have logged your feedback in the system in order to bring it to the attention of our engineers.

We rely on the dedication of owners such as yourself to help us perfect and refine our vehicles, and we truly appreciate the input you have provided today. Please continue to keep us informed and be honest with anything that may arise in the future.

Thank you again for your comments and for the trust you place in us.

Kind Regards,

David Cohen | Executive Care
Burgemeester Stramanweg 122 | 1101EN Amsterdam

www.tesla.com

 

[rborovoy]

Here is my response to the email I received from Tesla after filing a complaint to "escalate to exectutive review"

The generic email that I received back from Tesla is so weak!

I am kind of disappointed in the company.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mr Cohen,

I appreciate your reply to my concern.

However, your reply was very generic and does not really explain what Tesla plans to do about fixing the issue, other than "logging my feedback in the system".

I certainly know that I am not the only one with this issue and that this is not the first time you have received this complaint regarding the autopilot.

Can you refer me to someone at Tesla that can actually answer my question and complaint on when this problem will be solved.

The recent firmware updates of my vehicle have made my autopilot not worth using.

I would have thought that detailed testing would be done before official firmware updates where released to customers that had the ability to make a five thousand dollar feature on their vehicle useless.

Why should I have to apply light resistance as the autopilot steers the vehicle and the vehicle is doing what it should be doing.

My commute is mostly southern California freeways, most of the commute is long straight sections of the freeway.

It is un-natural for me to have to apply light pressure to steer the wheel if the autopilot is keeping the vehicle in the center of the lane.

It is basically defeating the whole purpose of using autopilot in the first place.


Thank you for your help in this matter.


Marshall O


From: Customer Support Tesla [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 6:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tesla Account Escalate email - VIN XXXXXXXXXXX


Dear Mr. XXXX

Thank you for reaching out to Tesla Inc.

I am sorry hearing you are disappointed with the changes brought by the recent firmware updates of your vehicle. As you may know, Autosteer detects your hands by recognizing light resistance as the steering wheel turns, or from you manually turning the steering wheel very lightly.

With that said, I have well have logged your feedback in the system in order to bring it to the attention of our engineers.

We rely on the dedication of owners such as yourself to help us perfect and refine our vehicles, and we truly appreciate the input you have provided today. Please continue to keep us informed and be honest with anything that may arise in the future.

Thank you again for your comments and for the trust you place in us.

Kind Regards,

David Cohen | Executive Care
Burgemeester Stramanweg 122 | 1101EN Amsterdam

www.tesla.com

 

[rborovoy]

I fully agree with Marshallo's comments. Having made this mess without telling customers, Tesla should be more forthcoming with its plans to correct a major goof. Whose bright idea was it to make autopilot almost unusable when we all forked out at least $3K for it???

 

[tls]

This - I rest my elbow on the door, my hand on the wheel and I let the wheel take the weight of my forearm. Works fine.

I gave myself bursitis in my elbow that way! No joke. I wish I could use the arm rest on the door, but it's just a little too low...

To me the major problem is that AP -- at least AP1 -- has become so accurate and smooth on well marked interstates that I really would almost never correct its line, not even a little, if I didn't have to. So my hands are on the wheel but I don't pull in either direction and I get constant nags, which is absurd and annoying. Early in the AP1 development cycle it didn't hold lane position as well or take natural lines through curves and so I gave it small adjustments all the time - which would have eliminated this issue.

On that problem, they're clearly victims of their own success and it can only get worse as the software gets better. They will need a new way to infer driver attentiveness; the idea that drivers will "naturally" fight AP a little bit all the time is no longer valid.

An actual touch-sensitive steering wheel would be vastly better and is definitely possible even under a leather-like covering with modern capacitive touch sensors.