Home Charge Points Discussion and Suggestions [megathread]

[Glan gluaisne]

Happy to help. If the electrician questions why a Type B is needed (and, to be fair, it isn't yet that well understood by some), then just mention that it's now a requirement that's in the wiring regs, section 722, paragraph 531.3.101:

722.531.3.101 Unless supplied by a circuit using the protective measure of electrical separation, each charging point incorporating a socket-outlet or vehicle connector complying with the BS EN 62196 series shall be protected by an RCD having a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA.

Except where provided by the EV charging equipment, protection against DC fault currents shall be provided by:

(i) an RCD Type B, or

(ii) an RCD Type A or Type F in conjunction with a residual direct current detecting device (RDC-DD) complying with BS IEC 62955 as appropriate to the nature of the residual and superimposed currents and recommendation of the manufacturer of the charging equipment.

RCDs shall comply with one of the following standards: BS EN 61008-1, BS EN 61009-1, BS EN 60947-2 or BS EN 62423.

NOTE 1: Types of RCD are described in Regulation 531.3.3 in respect of their behaviour when exposed to DC components and
frequencies.

NOTE 2: Requirements for the selection and erection of RCDs in the case of supplies using DC vehicle connectors according to the BS EN 62196 series are under consideration.

NOTE 3: An RCD Type A or Type F in conjunction with an RDC-DD can be arranged with the RDC-DD inside the EV charging
equipment and the Type A or Type F RCD upstream in either the charging equipment or the installation.

This part of the regs has been subject to recent amendment. Although the requirement for a DC tolerant RCD (Type B or Type EV) has been around for many years now (since about 2012, IIRC) it was largely ignored, primarily because Type B RCDs used to be prohibitively expensive (around £400 or so back when charge points were first being installed here in the UK).

BTW, "electrical separation" in the above refers to the use of an isolation transformer, but one rated for a 32 A charge point would cost a fortune and be far too large to fit in most domestic situations. I'm not even sure that anyone actually makes one, either.

 

[26ct2143]

Not really an installer recommendation, but a charger recommendation... (hope that's OK)
I just had my (commercial) electrician install a red 32amp 3 phase switched socket to the wall, then I did the rest, see photo. The go-eCharger comes with a red 3phase 32 amp plug on the end, you just plug it in, take it with you when you want to etc. (it's hook mounted on a back plate, just lifts off the wall)
I'm a bit of a computer nerd, and like IOT (internet of things) especially MQTT.
This is an Austrian made charger, 3 phase (although can run single phase by using a blue to red cable adapter)
It has a wifi hotspot in it (so can connect to it directly using your phone) and can connect to your site wifi.
I have connected it to my house wifi and it sends MQTT packets to my IOT server every 5sec.
So I can see the charge rate, kwh transferred, total transferred kwh(since it was installed), current draw, etc etc (too much to list)
It can load balance with other (go-e) chargers and or load balance with your solar using your IOT server to tell it the current draw you want every 5secs it can adjust 6-32a every 5 sec.

I've written some code so that I can log each charge, the kwh amount etc to a google spreadsheet, so I can see my consumption over a year or a month etc etc. I could write code to vary the current drew based on the house consumption, solar output, time of day etc etc.
The choices are wide, could do schedule charges and so forth.
If your into IOT stuff, this charger is definitely worth a look.
I will just say, that security wise, they give you a clamp to secure the cable, but it wouldn't be difficult to steal. Although this isn't an issue at my location. So not an issue for me.

 

[Tranceporter]

What did people pay on average for Zappi V2 installs? I got a quote back saying £800 for the charger and £300 for install. I have queried if that’s £800 after OLEV grant or before. I am based in Swindon.

 

[Adopado]

What did people pay on average for Zappi V2 installs? I got a quote back saying £800 for the charger and £300 for install. I have queried if that’s £800 after OLEV grant or before. I am based in Swindon.

That will almost certainly be before the grant is applied.

 

[Tranceporter]

That will almost certainly be before the grant is applied.

Just had an update. The installer said that it would cost £1100-1200 all in for the Zappi V2 install post OLEV grant
Looks like I might have to consider EO Mini Pro of PodPoint

 

[Adopado]

Just had an update. The installer said that it would cost £1100-1200 all in for the Zappi V2 install post OLEV grant
Looks like I might have to consider EO Mini Pro of PodPoint

Cost of installations are hugely variable... why not ask for a quote with a detailed breakdown? That will be the only way you can compare one installer vs another.

 

[Haydj]

I've had quotes between circa 800 to 1300 after the grant for Zappi v2 and the Tesla charge point. Some companies didn't even reply to my enquiries or questions. strangely the Tesla charge point was the most expensive.

 

[Chanser]

When I had my zappi installed it cost me around £930 total after olev.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Got to wonder how much profit some of these installers are making. An install rarely takes longer than a day, often only half a day. Even in central London electricians are only on around £400/day, here they are on around £220/day. Based on some of the prices being bandied about for charge point installs here, I reckon there must be some installers making £500 to £600/day. I get the strong feeling that there's a fair bit of profiteering going on, as there's no way that any electrician is worth £500/day, that's way more than double the day rate here.

 

[Haydj]

Im not sure its just the charge point installers who are profiteering. We have had some quotes for a Velux loft conversation in my house and the quotes are 2-3 times higher than what I was expecting and what the industry norms outlined online.

 

[Billbrown1982]

I've just started the process with Octopus to get a Untethered EO Mini 2 and earth box fitted, supposedly for 545, which seems like a great price.

The forms they want you to fill out are incredibly long, have to take loads of photos and even draw sketches with measurements of your setup.

BUT, it looks like they want a isolator switch fitted before they will touch anything, and we currently only have the master fuse going to the smart meters and then straight to the RCD.

Joy...I'm waiting to hear from them but started researching and this all looks like it could turn into a massive PITA.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Why on earth aren't people just going to a suitably qualified electrician to get a charge point installed? Any electrician that holds a Part P ticket and has the required level of competence can install a charge point, and the OLEV paperwork isn't a significant hurdle. The work is no more complex than fitting any other outdoor power outlet (and it is only a power outlet - there's no charger in the thing). Any electrician that's installed things like hot tubs, caravan hook up points, etc will have followed pretty much the same installation process as for a charge point.

The only additional training any charge point installer needs is how to set up the data link for a smart charge point, but that's no more challenging than setting up any other wifi device.

 

[barbs]

I've just started the process with Octopus to get a Untethered EO Mini 2 and earth box fitted, supposedly for 545, which seems like a great price.

The forms they want you to fill out are incredibly long, have to take loads of photos and even draw sketches with measurements of your setup.

BUT, it looks like they want a isolator switch fitted before they will touch anything, and we currently only have the master fuse going to the smart meters and then straight to the RCD.

Joy...I'm waiting to hear from them but started researching and this all looks like it could turn into a massive PITA.

I had my EO Mini 2 installed via Octopus too. Whilst a little time consuming it is worth the hassle for the price and actually knowing you can get a charger installed.

I contacted 5 companies, Octopus and 4 local from the OLEV list. Octopus by far the best experience in terms of actually responding and price. The company and guy they sent round to do the install were fantastic.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Just costed up the materials cost for fitting a tethered Zappi charge point, with a 10 metre cable run back to the incoming supply, all prices include VAT. The Zappi has integral open PEN and DC tolerant earth leakage protection, so making the installation a bit simpler.

Retail price of a tethered Zappi = £725 inc VAT

10m of (expensive) EV-Ultra 6mm² power + Cat5e data armoured cable (saves running a separate data cable for the Zappi CT) = £76.20 inc VAT
(the cheap option would be 10m of 6mm² SWA plus 10m of outdoor Cat5e at about £40)

Small connection enclosure, inc RCBO etc = £30

Henley blocks and flexy tails to connect to connection box = £36

Sundries (glands, cable cleats, fasteners, etc) = £10

The expensive (but neater) cable option comes to a total of about £877.20 inc VAT. The slightly cheaper (but less tidy) cable option comes to about £841.00 inc VAT.

The OLEV grant is currently worth £350

An electricians day rate, outside central London, will typically be around £220 or so. In central London this can rise to maybe £400/day.

Also, all the above materials prices are one-off retail, not trade. They will be reduced by at least 10% when supplied to a trades person.

It's not hard to do the sums and see that even an installation that takes all day shouldn't cost more than about £700, inc VAT (outside somewhere like central London and allowing for trade prices on materials), after the OLEV grant. Any competent electrician can register online in a few minutes to recover the OLEV grant, it's not restricted to electricity suppliers etc.

 

[MrBadger]

Any competent electrician can register online in a few minutes to recover the OLEV grant, it's not restricted to electricity suppliers etc.

Are you talking about how long it would take any electrician to register to become an authorised OLEV installer?

 

[26ct2143]

I wanted a 22kw 3 phase install.
Don't think grant covers that, so got my usual commercial electrician to do it (he's massively over qualified).
He says there is a lot profiting from this whole thing. I think I got it all done for less than most of the quotes above with no grant. Plus I get a proper electrical certificate for everything he does, for the insurance.

I'd definitely consider getting a quote from your usual trusty electrician without the grant.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Are you talking about how long it would take any electrician to register to become an authorised OLEV installer?

Yes, the process is online, and isn't that onerous for any electrician (in England and Wales) that is already a member of one of the Part P bodies (the majority will be). The form is here: OLEV authorised installer application | Forms

A few charge point manufacturers run a short (usually about half a day) course, some just provide written MIs and require installers to follow them. That's inline with other bits of electrical equipment else, so again pretty normal stuff, really. As an example, but not for a charge point, I needed to become an approved installer for a new, and slightly oddball, bit of electrical kit (far more complex than a EV charge point). I gained this after spending about 40 minutes on the phone with their technical instructor, who then emailed me confirmation that I was now an approved installer.

 

[rotor2k]

Why on earth aren't people just going to a suitably qualified electrician to get a charge point installed? Any electrician that holds a Part P ticket and has the required level of competence can install a charge point, and the OLEV paperwork isn't a significant hurdle. The work is no more complex than fitting any other outdoor power outlet (and it is only a power outlet - there's no charger in the thing). Any electrician that's installed things like hot tubs, caravan hook up points, etc will have followed pretty much the same installation process as for a charge point.

The only additional training any charge point installer needs is how to set up the data link for a smart charge point, but that's no more challenging than setting up any other wifi device.

Given how much discussion this topic generates on this forum, it sounds like it's a hairy mess, and I'm guessing a lot of electricians are already busy enough with other work to want to expose themselves to liability through missing some crucial reg? You'd think it would be straightforward, but no.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Given how much discussion this topic generates on this forum, it sounds like it's a hairy mess, and I'm guessing a lot of electricians are already busy enough with other work to want to expose themselves to liability through missing some crucial reg? You'd think it would be straightforward, but no.

It's exactly the same set of regs that every electrician in the land has to follow for all electrical work, BS7671. There's not anything particularly different or unusual about installing a charge point, it's pretty much the same as fitting any other outdoor power outlet, and near enough exactly the same as wiring up something like a hot tub, installing power to a metal framed greenhouse or installing a caravan hook up point, in fact pretty much any outdoor power outlet where there's a risk of contact with conductive earthed parts..

 

[Billbrown1982]

Why on earth aren't people just going to a suitably qualified electrician to get a charge point installed? Any electrician that holds a Part P ticket and has the required level of competence can install a charge point, and the OLEV paperwork isn't a significant hurdle. The work is no more complex than fitting any other outdoor power outlet (and it is only a power outlet - there's no charger in the thing). Any electrician that's installed things like hot tubs, caravan hook up points, etc will have followed pretty much the same installation process as for a charge point.

The only additional training any charge point installer needs is how to set up the data link for a smart charge point, but that's no more challenging than setting up any other wifi device.

Because there's a million private electricians out there and they all want to give you a different price and you have no idea wether they are trustworthy or not except for maybe a few reviews on trust a trader or somewhere like that.

Unless you actually know someone that comes recommended, and even then there's no guarantee, often the reassurance of going through a large company with an established brand gives you is worth the few extra quic.

Like I said, i'm getting mine done through my energy provider. Can't feel any safer than that.