Hurricane Harvey fallout - Gas queues in Dallas - Where is my EV?

[ohmman]

Thanks for the information. How much were the Powerwall 2s to install? How many amps can they deliver concurrently? The generation 1 product was extremely limited in capability when I looked into it.

Installed (with tax), $12,700.

Discharge spec is 5kW per Powerwall continuous and 7kW peak. For my double install, those are obviously doubled.

 

[voip-ninja]

Installed (with tax), $12,700.

Discharge spec is 5kW per Powerwall continuous and 7kW peak. For my double install, those are obviously doubled.

Thanks, still too low for my personal application. It seems that they are improving year on year so I will have to keep tabs on it. Perhaps in 2-3 more years it will be where I need it to make it worth the expense.

 

[voip-ninja]

I installed an SMA Sunny Boy brand inverter on my grid-tied solar system. I chose it because it has a nice feature called secure power supply where if the power goes out, you can switch on a dedicated 120v AC outlet that will allow the system to supply power (up to 2000 watts) directly from the panels (the grid has been isolated so no risk of back feeding if power is restored). Obviously the sun has to be shining for this to work but it is a much cheaper alternative to a full battery backup/powerwall and for me (outages are rare) better than purchasing a gas powered generator and storing gasoline etc. The cost is comparable to other systems we specd. I have successfully charged my Model S with this (slowly). It is dependent on enough sun. If cloud cover appears the car will not draw power.

SUNNY BOY 3.0-US / 3.8-US / 5.0-US / 6.0-US / 7.0-US / 7.7-US

Yes, the Sunny Boy is a good inverter that did not exist in its current form when my system was put in nearly 6 years ago (mine is a Fronius). I have looked into similar hybrid inverters for my system that are capable of grid tied operation and can still side-charge a battery string for emergency power.

Won't be worth it until my current inverter kicks the bucket and it will probably be awhile before that happens.

I will concede that side-charging or side-tap capability on grid-tied inverters is a more common feature now than 5 years ago but it's still not typically used in installations unless the homeowner is aware they might want it or that it even exists.

There was a news story after the big NJ storm about how all of the owners with solar panels were shocked to find they didn't work after the power went down... they just assumed they would.

 

[SageBrush]

about how all of the owners with solar panels

You mean all of the two people they interviewed.

 

[voip-ninja]

You mean all of the two people they interviewed.

If you talk to installers in your area they will tell you how many installations they do that have side charging ability during an outage.

Pretty sure it's not many.

You mostly only see it when people are doing off grid installation.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

LOL. Spec'd out a system SIX YEARS AGO.....jumps on multiple people who tell him the technology has progressed beyond where it was in 2011.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

As if I needed another reason to get my Model 3. Woke up this morning to long queues in Dallas. It appears that Texas and Louisiana account for the majority (or a significant portion) of US refining capacity, and production has been hit by Harvey. Since we're so close, it looks like we don't bother to stock up much since its a really quick drive to the refineries for supplies.

Yup, PADD III supplies most of the refined products in the US. On the plus side, I think there's enough rail for the shortage to be offset by I and II to some degree, compared to when CA had refinery issues and there wasn't a whole lot of extra supply that could feasibly be brought into PADD V.

https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/refinerycapacity/table1.pdf

 

[davedavedave]

Okey-dokey! What else do you have more knowledge compared to most of the people here? Inquiring minds want to know, I am utterly enthralled and waiting with baited breath.

Voip? </ducking> ;-)

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

And remember folks, if you want to target blame for Hurricane Harvey, you will get pretty good bang for your buck by directing it at right wing voters.
They denied the anthropogenic global warming science, they voted in governments that stalled action.

 

[Khan3]

@omgwtfbyobbq , just looked at the document you linked. Seems like Louisiana and Texas are 9m out of the 10m refining capacity in PAD III.

The table shows less than 300k worth of 'idle' capacity in all the other regions combined. I don't see how the other regions are able to fill in for the lost capacity? They only way is if the hurricane only impacted less than 3% of PAD III capacity which is definitely not the case

Gas queues were much longer today on my way back from work ... definitely hoping things can get stabilized soon

 

[Khan3]

Finally got gas for my wife's car this evening. Of course they had run out of regular gas so I'm forced to buy $4 gas ... ouch

 

[eloder]

Last I checked, power outages 1000 miles away from me never impacted my ability to charge my EV off the various local forms of power here.

Anyone who thinks EVs are worse off than gas cars is silly.

 

[chronopc]

View attachment 244985

Finally got gas for my wife's car this evening. Of course they had run out of regular gas so I'm forced to buy $4 gas ... ouch

It's sad what's happening in Texas.

Texas stores price gouging during Harvey: Gas for $20 per gallon, bottled water for $99

 

[voip-ninja]

LOL. Spec'd out a system SIX YEARS AGO.....jumps on multiple people who tell him the technology has progressed beyond where it was in 2011.

Battery backup to grid tie was available six years ago, it just wasn't practical. It is available now and is still not very practical and is exhorbitantly expensive which is why well over 95% of installs going on right now do not have battery backup.

Additional cost to add battery backup to a grid tie system to supply just a portion of home needs during a blackout is $5,000-$15,000 according to Cornell.

While you strut and crow like you've dunked on me I want to point out that the person I originally responded to, like most people had no idea whatsoever that solar panels don't "keep working" during a blackout.

Based on your responses I suspect you also weren't aware of this fact.

 

[ohmman]

Additional cost to add battery backup to a grid tie system to supply just a portion of home needs during a blackout is $5,000-$15,000 according to Cornell.

Obviously it depends on the size of the solar array, batteries, and house load. As I stated in my example, I cover an entire home/pool house/swimming pool/EV garage with a $12k system on a 9.5kW array. That's more than just a portion.

 

[voip-ninja]

Obviously it depends on the size of the solar array, batteries, and house load. As I stated in my example, I cover an entire home/pool house/swimming pool/EV garage with a $12k system on a 9.5kW array. That's more than just a portion.

Unless my math is wrong each gen 2 power wall does about 25 amps continuous output. My AC alone uses nearly 50. if I wired the power walls to only drive my smaller 20 amp circuits it might cover 2/3 of my typical usage and I would not be able to use any of the larger electrical appliances.

I'm glad it's working well for you but I don't think 50 amps peak output would cover most American homes as far as them doing all of their normal activities without risk of an overload. An electric oven and air conditioner would be enough to overload with nothing else in the house using electricity.

It's getting there though. 20 kilowatt units that could each push 40 amp output would kind of be the sweet spot for me.

 

[SageBrush]

Unless my math is wrong each gen 2 power wall does about 25 amps continuous output.

Over 40A at 120V per device

An average American family consumes about 800 kWh a month or a bit over 1 kW on average.
Peak draw can be much higher but a family would presumably be a tad thoughtful during a power outage.
And of course saying "x powerwalls" is insufficient sounds a bit funny given the alternative of NO electricity.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

And of course saying "x powerwalls" is insufficient sounds a bit funny given the alternative of NO electricity.

This. If I had to choose between eating for a week, or AC, I'd pick the food and run a fan.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Shell has publicly stated that the hurricane has had little impact on production. This is jus typical of any natural disaster that people stock up on food, water, gas when they dont want to venture out too much.

Total Texas refinery production dropped from 6 million barrels per day to 1 million.

 

[voip-ninja]

Over 40A at 120V per device

An average American family consumes about 800 kWh a month or a bit over 1 kW on average.
Peak draw can be much higher but a family would presumably be a tad thoughtful during a power outage.
And of course saying "x powerwalls" is insufficient sounds a bit funny given the alternative of NO electricity.

You will have to determine which circuits you are going to back feed the power walls to in such a situation or you run the risk of brownouts that can damage equipment. This increases the cost of the installation.

I agree that "some power is better than no power". I can produce over 5,000 watts to run essential items for a pretty good amount of time, things like lights, my furnace, fridge. It did not cost $15,000 for a power wall installation it cost about $900 for a pair of portable generators and a tandem set up.

The power walls are definitely cooler though.