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I understand "Rated Range" but PLEASE explain this to me

Discussion in 'Model S' started by themacs, Jan 2, 2016.

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  1. MSM

    MSM Member

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    Perhaps it has something to do with the newness of the vehicle. I've heard many people claim that new tires use cause more energy usage. I used about 385 kW/m in my P85D for the first 5000 miles, then it dropped to about 335 and has stayed pretty constant for another 10000 miles. Although I don't feel the need to punch the accelerator quite so often as I did when the car was new, I don't think my driving habits changed that much after 5000 miles.
     
  2. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    If you play with the Tesla range calculator, P85D needs to be at 65-70 mph at 70F (no AC/heater, torque sleep enabled, flat road, no headwind, etc) to hit the 253 mile EPA range rating with 21 inch wheels. Given the "rated" is based on EPA I suspect you would need similar conditions to hit that rating.
    https://www.teslamotors.com/models

    There is a 24 mile gap between 65 to 70 mph. Given aero losses are non-linear moving to 75 mph probably is even worse, but let's just use 24 miles. If I adjust temperature to 50F and turn heat on, that's another 17 miles. That's already 41 miles. Add in any winds, elevation changes, torque sleep possibly being disabled, would probably account for the rest.
     
  3. JenniferQ

    JenniferQ Supporting Member

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    And the flowers. :tongue:
     
  4. andrewket

    andrewket Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to turn on range mode to take advantage of torque sleep. It's always active. Range mode may increase it's impact. The primary benefit to range mode is reduced energy usage from HVAC, and changing the heating and cooling set points for the battery thermal control system.
     
  5. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    #25 msnow, Jan 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    I understand "Rated Range" but PLEASE explain this to me

    No, "ideal range" is perfect conditions, i.e. 55 mph, 70 degrees, no heating or AC, etc... I think estimated is a Remote S app thing (based on your past 30 miles of actual driving. "Predicted" range is based on current driving.
     
  6. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Air resistance goes up exponentially with speed. You're not going to get anywhere near rated range going 75 mph.
     
  7. Panoz

    Panoz Member

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    I can't explain your numbers (I assume going 75 was a large factor), but if this remains constant you have a 1.37 driving factor that you can depend on. So 100 statutory miles consumes 137 battery miles. I experienced a 1.42x mileage factor today in cold weather going to an airport, but did far better than that on a warmer day.
     
  8. Muzzman1

    Muzzman1 Member

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    @andrew
    Although you are a veteran, much more than myself. That is an inaccurate statement. Unlike my S85, where the "i" info button in the range mode option talks only about HVAC, my 85D specifically indicates that torque sleep is enabled when range mode is active.

    I WISH it was always active because under light load my front motor whines when it is active, and is silent when it is not, further proving that the motor loads change when range mode is active.

    From the manual page 91:
    "• Range Mode If on, Model S conserves energy by limiting the power of the climate control system. Cabin heating and cooling may be less efective, but seat heaters can be used to provide warmth in colder climates. When turned on in a dual motor vehicle, torque distribution between the motors is optimized to maximize range. "
     
  9. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Actually, it's a double exponential, plus drivetrain and rolling resistance which seem to be almost half the total loss at 75 mph.

    Regardless, 75 mph is basically the minimum speed on any interstate highway in the US.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Turn on the AM radio. You can hear both motors. Rear motor (at least in my car) is clearly on even at low power output, and turns on/off instantly with range mode.
     
  10. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I think the rated range is meant to be ironic.

    I mean here we have a car company based in california who produces a car that CANNOT achieve rated range on a California Freeway without getting the finger from other drivers.

    Couldn't they just have the rated range a flat surface at 70MPH?
     
  11. Ames

    Ames Member

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    #31 Ames, Jan 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    If you have any doubts about the capability of the P__D when compared with the P85 it might be worthwhile watching the video below. Without Range Mode they are about even, but with Range Mode you get 7% more range.

     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Rated range is the EPA standard which is shown on the new car sticker. I think most people would intuitively expect the car to show a number reflective of that.

    I do agree however it makes some sense to be able to configure a separate customized number with a Wh/mi you can fill in.
     
  13. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Or perhaps they should do like an ICE car and just not show it. Then everyone would assume they get that regardless of what they really get.

    The trip graph does that for you whenever a destination is set, and shows the deviation between expected and real as you travel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rolling Resistance is a constant and may actually reduce with speed because the tires have less time to deflect and will have less deflection due to heat build up at speed.
     
  14. luvnMyTS

    luvnMyTS Member

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    No way it was 55 degrees at 6:30 AM. Has been much colder in the morning as of late. There's a large difference in your range right there. The difference between 65 MPH and 75 MPH is quite large as well. In my own car, I've noticed around a 20% increase in wh/mi at 75 versus 65. Assuming that early in the morning, you likely had the heater on. The heater is the most draining accessory there is on the Tesla.

    Between the car keeping the battery warm in cold temperatures, your speeding and likely use of the heater, your numbers sound about right, especially considering there are some significant elevation changes from San Clemente to Woodland Hills (know the area very well). It's mostly uphill to Woodland Hills, so that kills range. Being that you went uphill at the coldest part of the morning at 75 MPH, you probably used up most of your range on the trip there. The return trip yields far better efficiency numbers due to being downhill most of the way.

    Did you have the car in Ludicrous mode? That wouldn't have helped either.
     
  15. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    No they couldn't. The EPA determines what rated range is, and the EPA test cycle is weighted towards city driving at lower speeds. Your issue is with the EPA, not Tesla.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Right. BTW, there are an astronomically large number of Prius posts with similar complaints.
     
  17. smac

    smac Active Member

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    Compared to the EU NEDC figures the EPA numbers are positively accurate . It's so gamed nowadays in the ICE (esp. hybrid) world as to be meaningless.

    The i8 is officially supposed to do 155mpg*. In reality owners are getting 35mpg* if they are lucky! (*UK gals)
     
  18. svp6

    svp6 Member

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    I did couple longer trips (700 miles in a day) going mostly flat (MN-WI-IL). When temperatures are 50F or above, I get ~290-300 Wh/mi overall going with TACC set at ~75 mph (OK, 73 in Wisconsin to diminish the risk of an encounter with the State Troopers - quite obnoxious behavior with out-of-state drivers); this was the only time I got under the rated range line. Range mode on, 19" wheels. Best consumption seems to be at temps ~80F - at least with my P85D.
    Anything below 50F your range begins to suffer. Headwind is terrible. Winter range ~450-500 Wh/mi at 75 mph. In town winter range - 500-600 Wh/mi.
     
  19. MSEV

    MSEV Member

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    My 2 cents and experience here.
    Like others posting here, I emphasize: Fast (particularly over 60-65) will deplete energy, as does the HVAC, not using range mode, cold weather, etc.
    Unlike what others have said: I never use EPA rated miles (they so often are not accurate). I turn them off in the controls and use percentages, which is like what other cars have (your tank is half full, not that you can maybe get x miles). I rely heavily, when traveling, on the Energy Trip feature, watching the percent that will be left when I get to the destination or the next charger. If that percentage is dropping, I have to watch it or change things or I won't make it to my destination. My opinion: you cannot drive long distances in an EV at this point in time without paying attention to your charge and consumption and without knowing where you can get energy down the road. I see us aa pioneers at this time, and we are pioneers in the sense that it is slower to fill our energy source and the stations are way farther apart than for ICE machines.
    Learn to drive differently, watch the gauges, enjoy the trip, probably take longer breaks for filling energy. Change can be difficult.
     
  20. themacs

    themacs Member

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    I did take the 405 and did go up, but had to come back so I went down also LOL

    Had the heater on 78 for the trip.

    Just as thought, it is sure difficult to really get the miles advertised isn't it :) :)
     

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