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Ideal Aftermarket Audio System for Model S
- Thread starter EVTechPioneer
- Start date
artisjr
Member
So, I visited the Safe and Sound in Chantilly, VA yesterday. I have the standard sound so am looking into audio upgrades. Here's the options they gave:
1- Upgrade all speakers + Add Amp + Sub .. > $6K (Ofcourse best option, according to them)
2- Add Amp + Sub - Should add base and would allow them to tweak sound going into all speakers, which would surely improve sound. Then replace stock speakers, when ready
3- Replace all 4 door speakers + tweeter with Audiofrog (fronts) + tweeters and Focal (back)
Funny thing is two installers -- one said #2 and second that #3 --same location. Never heard of Etons, I was told.
So....here's my question -- what have been your experience? Would #2 even help with stock speakers? 1st guy told me if I go with #3, I will NOT hear much difference since Amp & Sub is necessary to make a big difference. Am confused.
Anyone in the DC area, whose got work done there (or somewhere else) and if so, what did you go with? Would love to hear what it sounds like too....if possible. Thanks!
@dcmetro:
I have done a lot of business at Safe and Sound. As a matter of fact, I was just there this past Friday. I am very impressed with them.The next time you call them or visit asked them about me. I upgraded my audio, tinted my windows and installed my BlackVue cameras.
Like you, I had the standard audio. Here is what I got done:
Front Door Speakers and Tweeters: Audio Frog GB60 6” & GB10 1”
Amp with Digital Sound Processing (DSP): Mosconi D280.6DSP (6 to 8)
Sound Deadening/Damping in front doors (Masa Mat)
Sub-Woofer: Illusion Carbon C10 (10”)
Sub-Woofer: Amp JL Audio HD600/4
As a cost saving measure, I did not upgrade the rear door speakers.
During the initial install, my speakers were tuned for about four hours with the DSP. After the install, I picked up the car and drove it for 30 days to allow the speakers to be broken in. I returned the car for another 2 hours of tuning. It really sounds great!
If you like to hear it, let me know. I live in Waldorf. We could meet at the Supercharger @ National Harbor.
Good luck!
artisjr
Member
@drsaab,
Your comments are on point. I just completed an upgrade of my system at Safe and Sound. I did everything you posted except I went with Mosconi DSP (Refer to my post to @dcmetro).
I hope to meet you, I will be at Cars and Cigars of the 14th. I have Ashburn as a meeting place - I assume this is the same event?
headcase
Member
Let me know if you decide to attend Cars and Cigars in Ashburn. I went with a full Light Harmonic setup on my factory upgraded audio, and I'm really curious to hear the difference with a Safe & Sound setup from Matt.
To follow up on the ETONs.
Install
Installing the 8" speakers was a pain for me, due to the bracket fabrication issues and also getting them to clear the doors (the brackets need to be 1.5" thick or less, even 1.5" may be a little too thick depending on various details). If I had to do it again, I'd definitely have a pro do it (local pro estimated something like 3-4 hours at $65/h plus materials for the woofer install, or $6XX including the tweeter and sound deadening), or buy the BA setup. I probably spent 16 hours on it if you include researching, planning, fabrication, re-fabrication, etc. I ended up using a 8" speaker ring, although the one I got was too thick and I had to sand it down, glued to a RING-6.5BZ. Note that the holes in the factory door are not a perfect circle, so getting the right ring size using an off the shelf ring for a perfect install is pretty damn difficult. I based most of my install off of @trayloader's pictures, but found that running the wire through the middle of the ring (not the back) was easier to seal.
Sound Quality
I had done A/B testing against the factory speaker and was fairly disappointed. I had expected a large increase in bass, although these speakers seemed to have about the same bass as the factory speakers. They do produce a nice "punch" bass, which was lacking in the factory speakers, but total bass output isn't that much different than factory at the same volume. The rest of the sound spectrum is quieter though on the ETONs, so once you compensate for that, the bass output compared to the rest is probably more like 30% increase. These are 3ohm speakers, which is probably the primary reason they are little quieter than the stock speakers.
Once I stopped being laser focused on the bass output and just listened to the music, I realized the rest of the sound quality was a lot better. The mids in the factory speakers are muddy and harsh, and sound like $3 speakers. The mids in the ETONs are nice and clear, and sound like $300 speakers.
After installing both ETON speakers, the system sounds great! The whole spectrum of sound is present and clear. What more can I say? When it is turned up, instead of just sounding loud with lots of bad qualities, it sounds great. The bass output is right where I'd want it to be. It's not aftermarket sub-woofer like bass (which is okay), but it's accurate bass that is well matched with the rest of the sound. The total volume is still sufficient. I have not replaced the tweeters yet, but even the highs sounded good, so maybe they are okay from the factory, or I'm just happy and giving too much credit. I have no complaints at this point and don't intend to do any further upgrades. I have not had much time with them though, so feel free to PM me if you are reading this in 6 months and want an update.
Honestly, there is a big difference in Slacker radio. I agree in theory with the person who said putting good speakers on a low quality signal it's like buying front row tickets to a cover band, but it's more like listening to a cover band with a horrible speaker versus listening to a cover band with great speakers. The apparent crappy sound quality I used to hear in the Slacker signal has now somehow disappeared, instead of being amplified.
Install
Installing the 8" speakers was a pain for me, due to the bracket fabrication issues and also getting them to clear the doors (the brackets need to be 1.5" thick or less, even 1.5" may be a little too thick depending on various details). If I had to do it again, I'd definitely have a pro do it (local pro estimated something like 3-4 hours at $65/h plus materials for the woofer install, or $6XX including the tweeter and sound deadening), or buy the BA setup. I probably spent 16 hours on it if you include researching, planning, fabrication, re-fabrication, etc. I ended up using a 8" speaker ring, although the one I got was too thick and I had to sand it down, glued to a RING-6.5BZ. Note that the holes in the factory door are not a perfect circle, so getting the right ring size using an off the shelf ring for a perfect install is pretty damn difficult. I based most of my install off of @trayloader's pictures, but found that running the wire through the middle of the ring (not the back) was easier to seal.
Sound Quality
I had done A/B testing against the factory speaker and was fairly disappointed. I had expected a large increase in bass, although these speakers seemed to have about the same bass as the factory speakers. They do produce a nice "punch" bass, which was lacking in the factory speakers, but total bass output isn't that much different than factory at the same volume. The rest of the sound spectrum is quieter though on the ETONs, so once you compensate for that, the bass output compared to the rest is probably more like 30% increase. These are 3ohm speakers, which is probably the primary reason they are little quieter than the stock speakers.
Once I stopped being laser focused on the bass output and just listened to the music, I realized the rest of the sound quality was a lot better. The mids in the factory speakers are muddy and harsh, and sound like $3 speakers. The mids in the ETONs are nice and clear, and sound like $300 speakers.
After installing both ETON speakers, the system sounds great! The whole spectrum of sound is present and clear. What more can I say? When it is turned up, instead of just sounding loud with lots of bad qualities, it sounds great. The bass output is right where I'd want it to be. It's not aftermarket sub-woofer like bass (which is okay), but it's accurate bass that is well matched with the rest of the sound. The total volume is still sufficient. I have not replaced the tweeters yet, but even the highs sounded good, so maybe they are okay from the factory, or I'm just happy and giving too much credit. I have no complaints at this point and don't intend to do any further upgrades. I have not had much time with them though, so feel free to PM me if you are reading this in 6 months and want an update.
Honestly, there is a big difference in Slacker radio. I agree in theory with the person who said putting good speakers on a low quality signal it's like buying front row tickets to a cover band, but it's more like listening to a cover band with a horrible speaker versus listening to a cover band with great speakers. The apparent crappy sound quality I used to hear in the Slacker signal has now somehow disappeared, instead of being amplified.
artisjr
Member
Sorry for the "day after" response, but I was there. I was parked with three other Teslas. Hope to meet up with at another event!
trayloader
Member
Great that it finally worked out for You!
And wait til they "burn in", resulting in another 5-10% improvement.
Can You post more images here please. Your image was somehow broken and couldn´t be displayed.
Good luck
And wait til they "burn in", resulting in another 5-10% improvement.
Can You post more images here please. Your image was somehow broken and couldn´t be displayed.
Good luck
timvracer
Member
what is your experience with this? If you only change speakers, and don't change other components (crossovers are the most important, and of course, proper amplification), then the difference indeed would not be stellar.
everyone jumps to change door speakers, and it is the least impacting item, at least in UHFS. Tweeters, amps, crossovers and of course Subs are the big deficiency.
everyone jumps to change door speakers, and it is the least impacting item, at least in UHFS. Tweeters, amps, crossovers and of course Subs are the big deficiency.
Just ordered the 4-door speaker upgrade kit from BA Design Works. To arrive in 1-2 weeks and will see how it does. I have the standard audio package on my Sep-16 built MS75D. I am sure it would be better than what I have . Thank you to all for posting your choices & experiences - very helpful!
. Thank you to all for posting your choices & experiences - very helpful!
battleroyale
Member
Curious to see if the new batch of LH amps they have on their site to be release in June will have the same issues as the previous versions.
ACA Man
Member
It IS much better.Just ordered the 4-door speaker upgrade kit from BA Design Works. To arrive in 1-2 weeks and will see how it does. I have the standard audio package on my Sep-16 built MS75D. I am sure it would be better than what I have
ACA Man
Member
You are correct BUT for most people, changing just the door speakers is a start.
alright, reporting back here after my install this morning. My initial response was - well - I don't feel a difference :-(. Yes, these are heavier speakers, bigger magnets etc. but I think the base amp is the problem - it is weak and not driving this speaker any better than it did the standard speakers.
I replaced all the 4 doors with the BA Design Works speakers. I will let them settle for a few days and see if they improve. But I should have felt some difference. Some things to note:
* the front doors on my car (front-refreshed MS, Sep 16 build) has a loop at the far end of the door that the door panel stays stuck there - I didn't bother too much with trying to remove that - just let the door panel rest as-is (with a prop) - I got enough room to remove the speakers.
* rear doors didn't have the puddle light openings - but wiring was all there. I had saved 2 LED lights (abstract ocean) from previous upgrades and it was easy to just cut the thin material covering the hard-plastic opening to plug them in.
* easy to damage speakers with the plastic pointed pins that hold the door panels to the door - take care while removing and installing the panels.
I really think the only option to get good output from these (hopefully) good speakers is to replace factory amp (standard audio) with a better amp (digital). Not sure anyone has done that. Agree with @timvracer's comments. Hope someone here has done the factory amp replacement....
I replaced all the 4 doors with the BA Design Works speakers. I will let them settle for a few days and see if they improve. But I should have felt some difference. Some things to note:
* the front doors on my car (front-refreshed MS, Sep 16 build) has a loop at the far end of the door that the door panel stays stuck there - I didn't bother too much with trying to remove that - just let the door panel rest as-is (with a prop) - I got enough room to remove the speakers.
* rear doors didn't have the puddle light openings - but wiring was all there. I had saved 2 LED lights (abstract ocean) from previous upgrades and it was easy to just cut the thin material covering the hard-plastic opening to plug them in.
* easy to damage speakers with the plastic pointed pins that hold the door panels to the door - take care while removing and installing the panels.
I really think the only option to get good output from these (hopefully) good speakers is to replace factory amp (standard audio) with a better amp (digital). Not sure anyone has done that. Agree with @timvracer's comments. Hope someone here has done the factory amp replacement....
Hi everyone, it's Jarek from Light Harmonic. I wanted to introduce myself and let everyone know we were making ourselves available to the forum for questions, comments, etc.
The amp issues we had previously are completely fixed now. It was related to wiring length causing extra inductance in various Tesla configurations. Our office did a lot of research and testing to find out what was causing it and made the necessary adjustments. The problem should not happen again. We appreciate everyone's patience and understand everyone's frustration at the same time.
We are active at our Facebook page as well, and we do respond to messages usually very quickly. Quite often it's literally as if you're on a regular live chat with us.
We still have S4D in stock and we are receiving other Tesla units soon, so keep checking back. If there's any delays or updates, I'll be sure to post those on our Marketplace.
If there's anything we can do for you, please let us know.
The amp issues we had previously are completely fixed now. It was related to wiring length causing extra inductance in various Tesla configurations. Our office did a lot of research and testing to find out what was causing it and made the necessary adjustments. The problem should not happen again. We appreciate everyone's patience and understand everyone's frustration at the same time.
We are active at our Facebook page as well, and we do respond to messages usually very quickly. Quite often it's literally as if you're on a regular live chat with us.
We still have S4D in stock and we are receiving other Tesla units soon, so keep checking back. If there's any delays or updates, I'll be sure to post those on our Marketplace.
If there's anything we can do for you, please let us know.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Jared,
Do you mean supply side inductance (from the 12 volt battery to the amp) or speaker side inductance ( from the AMP to the individual speakers)? I have always thought about running a larger gauge 12 volt power wire from your amp, direct to the battery to increase peak performance....thoughts?
Also huge fan of your product - my second amp from you guys is rock solid and had no issues for 20 months now. I do still have an defective AMP from my other Tesla sitting in the garage in a box, do you want me to return it? - happy to do so...
Do you mean supply side inductance (from the 12 volt battery to the amp) or speaker side inductance ( from the AMP to the individual speakers)? I have always thought about running a larger gauge 12 volt power wire from your amp, direct to the battery to increase peak performance....thoughts?
Also huge fan of your product - my second amp from you guys is rock solid and had no issues for 20 months now. I do still have an defective AMP from my other Tesla sitting in the garage in a box, do you want me to return it? - happy to do so...
I'll check with the office over what exactly the tech issue consisted of.
As far as returning it, please make a ticket with an explanation about the issue over at our Freshdesk site (Support : LH Labs) and I'll get our tech team to review the issue and send you an RMA if at all possible.
The issue was the cables from the amp to the speakers. So if you want, you could add a larger power cable.
battleroyale
Member
I am double checking on this. Hopefully within a few weeks but I'm not 100% sure. I'll let you know when I find out for sure.
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