If the rise in insurance is because of repair costs why isn’t third party cheap too?

[bay74]

@bay74 - I note my last two posts have got the thumbs down from you, Is it everything I say? or just a bit of it? Have i misinterpreted the information of the video?.
Of course, feel free to disagree with me but it really would help if you posted a reply and say what your belief is or correct me where I'm going wrong. I don't take offence because people disagree but it would be nice to know why.

Wrong thread . I disagree with some of your assertions / assumptions about heat pumps and Tesla's implementation thereof, as was being discussed here.

 

[GRiLLA]

Had a bump early this year in my Y. Drove the car home (so can’t have been damaged too badly). Car spent several weeks being assessed. Warned that parts “take months” to come in, so be prepared for a wait.
Eventually said chassis looks bent so unsure if battery damaged.
Car written off. £50k claim.
Apologies to all for insurance premium increases, but I suspect the car may have been repairable if Tesla a) were able to supply parts in good time (instead of insurance paying hire-charges), and b) the car was designed with repairability/recertification in mind. To be fair to the insurance company, to some extent it was easier for them to write the car off, then pass the cost onto other people insuring Teslas.

Bent chassis means a write off on any new car surely, not just Tesla.

 

[Adopado]

Bent chassis means a write off on any new car surely, not just Tesla.

A strange change of tack for them to subsequently decide it should be written off as they had already examined the car and decided it would be a long time for parts ... my alternative narrative is ... they've got a buyer for the battery

 

[WannabeOwner]

Insurance companies are notorious for taking the easy option and writing off perfectly repairable vehicles

mate of mine (engineer) bought a Tesla write off, from insurance company. All air bags deployed. Total cost of bits to put it back on the road was £4,000. I don't know what he had to pay for it, nor how many hours he spent unbending it, but he did remark that he was surprised how little out of shape it was, considering the speed of the impact.

Debateable if Insurance should ever have written it off ... but "length of time to fix" would be considerable (in terms of hire cars), and maybe they sold it as a write-off for, what, 50% of value? Could it have been that much? either way, maybe the loss was less than cost of repair and cost of hire-car.

 

[mnobleuk]

mate of mine (engineer) bought a Tesla write off, from insurance company. All air bags deployed. Total cost of bits to put it back on the road was £4,000. I don't know what he had to pay for it, nor how many hours he spent unbending it, but he did remark that he was surprised how little out of shape it was, considering the speed of the impact.

Debateable if Insurance should ever have written it off ... but "length of time to fix" would be considerable (in terms of hire cars), and maybe they sold it as a write-off for, what, 50% of value? Could it have been that much? either way, maybe the loss was less than cost of repair and cost of hire-car.

Insurance companies are not dumb - despite what we might think their whole existence is to pay out as little as possible.

They have the data and they understand perfectly the cost implications of repair vs write off. They simply follow the money and have no sentimental attachment to cars.

 

[Jason71]

Bent chassis means a write off on any new car surely, not just Tesla.

Traditionally a small amount of bending could be fixed with a Jig I think? Maybe that practice has fallen out of favour or maybe insurance companies are unwilling to Jig EV's for fear the battery might have been damaged in the original bend or even in the jigging. There certainty does seem to be a lot of paranoia ( maybe justified maybe not) from insurance companies with regards to EV repairs which will hurt premiums.

 

[Kenners]

Insurance companies are notorious for taking the easy option and writing off perfectly repairable vehicles. (This has been the case long before Tesla and I don’t believe Teslas are much different in repairability anyway) They get their money back from all us customers whether they repair or write off… but one option is a whole lot less hassle… and they can still get something back on the written off car. Guess where are the components for classic car conversions come from!

I presume they also get a chunk back from the additional premium they charge on the CAT D repaired vehicle for the rest if its life!

 

[Bouba]

If the formula is scrap value plus the repair costs exceed the replacement price then it is a writeoff … almost any car parted is worth more than the sum of its parts…probably a Tesla even more so because there aren’t as many new parts available. My advice is…if you are going to have an accident…avoid hitting your headlights…they are really valuable especially on a Model S.
To me it all sounds like the ground work is being done to prepare for the arrival of Tesla’s own insurance company

 

[MkPotato]

Traditionally a small amount of bending could be fixed with a Jig I think? Maybe that practice has fallen out of favour or maybe insurance companies are unwilling to Jig EV's for fear the battery might have been damaged in the original bend or even in the jigging. There certainty does seem to be a lot of paranoia ( maybe justified maybe not) from insurance companies with regards to EV repairs which will hurt premiums.

This is the gist of what articles in the media are saying. In theory, they could check/fix any alignment, but unless they can test/guarantee the battery’s integrity, then there is a perceived risk that the EV may eg cause a fire due to a battery issue. I guess you can’t blame the insurance company for writing the car off if the repairer assesses the car as not economically repairable.

My car appeared to be an example of this process in action. The front part of the chassis may have been bent, but the car still drove absolutely fine, so I’m assuming it wasn’t severe. (Don’t know enough about cars to say whether driving ok is a realistic measure of chassis damage).

A strange change of tack for them to subsequently decide it should be written off as they had already examined the car and decided it would be a long time for parts ... my alternative narrative is ... they've got a buyer for the battery

The repairer was assessing the car. I spoke to them at a couple of points; initially, it was them that mentioned they had cars “waiting months” for parts, then at a follow-up they said that the estimate was running “over £30k”. That was about a week before the insurance company declared it a write-off. I don’t think the insurance company any ulterior motive. I think the car was later auctioned.

The issue appears to be the repairability of the car. Unless I very much missed the underlying damage, £30k to repair the car is ridiculous, and inability to supply parts in good time just exacerbates the problem.

 

[Jason71]

This is the gist of what articles in the media are saying. In theory, they could check/fix any alignment, but unless they can test/guarantee the battery’s integrity, then there is a perceived risk that the EV may eg cause a fire due to a battery issue. I guess you can’t blame the insurance company for writing the car off if the repairer assesses the car as not economically repairable.

My car appeared to be an example of this process in action. The front part of the chassis may have been bent, but the car still drove absolutely fine, so I’m assuming it wasn’t severe. (Don’t know enough about cars to say whether driving ok is a realistic measure of chassis damage).




The repairer was assessing the car. I spoke to them at a couple of points; initially, it was them that mentioned they had cars “waiting months” for parts, then at a follow-up they said that the estimate was running “over £30k”. That was about a week before the insurance company declared it a write-off. I don’t think the insurance company any ulterior motive. I think the car was later auctioned.

The issue appears to be the repairability of the car. Unless I very much missed the underlying damage, £30k to repair the car is ridiculous, and inability to supply parts in good time just exacerbates the problem.

The reality they might have done you a favour. Now you don't have to drive a crappy ICE hire car for months while your battery level drops to zero and degrades while you wait for parts.

 

[MkPotato]

The reality they might have done you a favour. Now you don't have to drive a crappy ICE hire car for months while your battery level drops to zero and degrades while you wait for parts.

Absolutely! There are some horror stories of people waiting many months while the garage have parts on back order, so in some ways I was relieved that the car was written-off.

In terms of my personal circumstances, it may have a small impact on future insurance, but clearly in terms of premiums in general, it’s not a good thing though. Neither is it particularly good for sustainability - although obviously someone may buy the car and get it back on the road (although I read that written-off cars are blacklisted for SuC use - not sure if that is true, but if it is, I’m not sure I’d want one?).

 

[MrBadger]

…so in some ways I was relieved that the car was written-off.

In terms of my personal circumstances, it may have a small impact on future insurance, but clearly in terms of premiums in general, it’s not a good thing though….

How does the payout compare to cost of replacement? I would imagine matching payout to suitable replacement is difficult in a volatile market.

Or are you in the window where you get new for old?

 

[Wattsisname]

@bay74 - I note my last two posts have got the thumbs down from you, Is it everything I say? or just a bit of it? Have i misinterpreted the information of the video?.
Of course, feel free to disagree with me but it really would help if you posted a reply and say what your belief is or correct me where I'm going wrong. I don't take offence because people disagree but it would be nice to know why.

It would be nice if the site designers changed the "Nero" thumb to blue. There is, I agree, something vaguely offence about the black thumb perhaps because it is so rarely used or it is so rarely used because of its effect.

 

[Kansalis]

How does the payout compare to cost of replacement? I would imagine matching payout to suitable replacement is difficult in a volatile market.

Or are you in the window where you get new for old?

I bought 3 years GAP insurance for £243 (check comparison sites) for peace of mind on that front. It covers me up to the full invoice cost. Before this car I would never have bothered, but as has been discussed in this thread and others, it seems that writing cars off has become more common in recent years.

My dad was rear-ended by an AA van in his Merc estate a few months ago. The damage didn't look too bad, the rear window was intact even, but it was written off by the insurer. It seems to take a lot less these days to write a car off...

 

[Wattsisname]

All of the excuses provided by the insurers claim that EV insurance is going up because if repair costs. Fair enough. So i will just go for third party cover so that is not an issue for them. Of someone crashes into me they have to pay, but that should not be reflected in my premium. But the cost of third party fire and theft is not much lower (about £300 out of £1500 fully comp). So what gives? Tesla’s have no thefts, so it should be cheap as chips surely! Or are they saying EVs cause more third party losses when they crash too? What am I missing?

Way things are looking webuyanycar and a lease is getting more and more attractive as insurance is bundled!

Does anyone here use an insurance broker?
Back in the day, all the family's insurance needs were met by an insurance broker.
He was trusted to get the best terms at the right price. Both the insured and the insurers relied upon brokers. The internet blue most of that away; certainly the smaller brokers gave up.
Our fault for deserting them in favour of online "bargains".

There are a few larger brokers around, hence my question.

 

[Kansalis]

Does anyone here use an insurance broker?
Back in the day, all the family's insurance needs were met by an insurance broker.
He was trusted to get the best terms at the right price. Both the insured and the insurers relied upon brokers. The internet blue most of that away; certainly the smaller brokers gave up.
Our fault for deserting them in favour of online "bargains".

There are a few larger brokers around, hence my question.

Brokers will (almost) always be looking to make as much commission on a deal as they can. While I'm sure some are more customer focussed and scrupulous than others, when there's a middle man making money out of a transaction you can be fairly sure you're going to pay more for the privilege. At least today's comparison sites are automated with a fixed set of fees or commissions and there's no massaging of figures.

Ultimately you get what you pay for. I'm sure brokers still exist for those who are wealthy enough that that the cost of their time is more important than the actual monetary cost. These days you're paying for a service more than trying to get the best possible price. A bit like the concierge service you can get with some higher end bank accounts/credit cards. They will find your theater tickets or restaurant seats, but it'll cost you more than if you had done it yourself.

 

[MrBadger]

Does anyone here use an insurance broker?

The comparison sites are insurance brokers by another name.

Obviously don’t offer same level assistance as traditional one though. Not that many high street/internet type brokers do either these days.

 

[Jason71]

I bought 3 years GAP insurance for £243 (check comparison sites) for peace of mind on that front. It covers me up to the full invoice cost. Before this car I would never have bothered, but as has been discussed in this thread and others, it seems that writing cars off has become more common in recent years.

My dad was rear-ended by an AA van in his Merc estate a few months ago. The damage didn't look too bad, the rear window was intact even, but it was written off by the insurer. It seems to take a lot less these days to write a car off...

I kinda hate the idea of GAP insurance. I get the original purpose to prevent people with cars on finance being left still owing money on a car that was written off but offering to top up to the original invoice price on a vehicle that is written off at two and a half years old is rather a big incentive for people stung by high depreciation to have "accidents" so they can make a bit profit. I know new for old insurance has existed forever but applying it to cars just seems like it won't end well. No one ever died accidently breaking their iPhone to get a free upgrade.
This is not in any way a negative comment on you or any accident mentioned here just a general thought. #HateTheGameNotThePlayer.

/rant

 

[Wattsisname]

Brokers will (almost) always be looking to make as much commission on a deal as they can. While I'm sure some are more customer focussed and scrupulous than others, when there's a middle man making money out of a transaction you can be fairly sure you're going to pay more for the privilege. At least today's comparison sites are automated with a fixed set of fees or commissions and there's no massaging of figures.

Ultimately you get what you pay for. I'm sure brokers still exist for those who are wealthy enough that that the cost of their time is more important than the actual monetary cost. These days you're paying for a service more than trying to get the best possible price. A bit like the concierge service you can get with some higher end bank accounts/credit cards. They will find your theater tickets or restaurant seats, but it'll cost you more than if you had done it yourself.

Thank you. Is your assessment of using a broker for car insurance based on personal experience? My interest is in getting a better price. If I was wealthy enough, I would not be seeking alternatives.

 

[KennethS]

Thank you. Is your assessment of using a broker for car insurance based on personal experience? My interest is in getting a better price. If I was wealthy enough, I would not be seeking alternatives.

Back when we had a car that was of a value and performance profile that made it more difficult to insure, we used a broker and it seemed justified. We also still use a broker for our home insurance. But for the cars we have today the on-line comparison sites seem to offer up multiple insurance choices at prices below what the broker is able to find. IMHO, brokers have a purpose depending on circumstances. For a Tesla, even with the escalating insurance costs, it hasn't seemed a money saving route for us.