And a Bertel Schmitt article of course. For those not in the know, Bertel seems to be a (paid?) anti-Tesla shill, whose "articles" are best described by his initials. This kinda stuff must be like gold for him.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
And a Bertel Schmitt article of course. For those not in the know, Bertel seems to be a (paid?) anti-Tesla shill, whose "articles" are best described by his initials. This kinda stuff must be like gold for him.
You need to go and charge at 4 or 5AM when there is no one around and the temperature is cool. This is how you can test if you will hit the magical 110KW charging rate.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
thegruf
Active Member
the editorial content of this thread, and I'm including all sides of the discussion, is orders of magnitude more worthy than the rubbish Bertel Schmitt just wrote. Just makes Forbes look stupid.
New Headline:
"Bertel Schmitt writes inaccurate article resulting in Forbes losing journalistic credibility"
New Headline:
"Bertel Schmitt writes inaccurate article resulting in Forbes losing journalistic credibility"
How does 5 minutes more per supercharging session add up to 30 minutes more on a short trip? I wouldn't call a trip needing 6 supercharger stops a short trip. that's more than 700 miles of driving. Is 30 minutes difference really noticeable on a trip of more than 700 miles, when you're probably eating lunch or dinner at some of those stops anyway?
El Boricua
Member
Actually, no. This is the first forum I participate in my life. I think it is extremelly useful and educational. kudos!Is that a shot at us?
Welcome aboard.
What how so? This reduced charge rate and the increase of 5 minutes is ONLY applicable when you are charging from a low SOC. If you are starting from above 50% or so, this has no impact because every car - new and old - charges less than 90kW above 50%.
That is a short trip to me, yes. If I can do the drive in one day, it's a short trip.
Yes, 30 minutes makes a huge difference to me, after I am already in for an additional 2+ hours on that same trip vs. ICE. I do that trip and similar ones several times I year, so over the course of a year, I may lose at least 6 or 7 more hours of my life doing nothing while I wait to charge with this throttled charging. I already made the cost:benefit ratio when purchasing doing the time lost calculations based on ~115 kW charging, to have that reduced by ~20% for no particular reason important to me is not ok.
I put 30,000 miles on my car last year. That time adds up. I realize that many Tesla drivers treat their cars like trophies and rarely drive them and just putter around town. I don't. I believe a car should be driven... I put many miles on my Lotus as well - I don't believe in garage queens. I sold my last car @ 265,000 miles and bought the Tesla. My last car was 10 years old.
If the superchargers I frequent were located properly, then it might be a different story... but virtually ALL of the superchargers I use are located in very poor location - nothing to do, nothing to see... I literally have to either eat crappy food every ~100 miles or do nothing but sit in the car and wait.
All of my Supercharging starts below 50%. Usually around 5 - 10%, sometimes lower. Let me be clear, I don't care nearly as much about battery degradation as I do about wasting my time. I will take a 150 mile range car that supercharges in 5 minutes over a 300 mile range car that supercharges in 30 minutes any day of the week.
Last edited:
Okay then, only if you are charging from 0% to full you would have a 5 minute increase. To get 30 minutes increased time, that is 6 supercharging from 0 to 100% or a drive of of 200 * 6 = 1200 miles. You think we are fools to assume this is your short repeated trips?
What?? It is okay to get your range degraded by 20 to 30%, but it is not okay to wait an additional 5 minutes for 200 miles? You realize in two more years you many not even be able to hop between SCs in a cold windy day, if you remove the battery protection that is inbuilt
Oh I understand, then you can create another storm on how Tesla cheated you on battery degradation.
To start with if you care for your time you would be installing plug in your home. And road tripping is your primary need with no interest in waiting for 5 minutes extra for charging, then Tesla is not your car.
Just my .02 here; in 8 months of ownership of a 60s and trips from San Diego to Santa Fe and San Diego to Atlanta and back, along with a few uses of the San Diego supercharger, I have never seen (what I consider to be) the mythical 3 digit rate of supercharging. To Atlanta and back, stopping so supercharge 30-40 times, I have seen charging consistently starting at 90-95kW and tapering from there. The San Diego SC rates are all over the map, high 30s to low 80s.
Does it appear to just be the max charge rate that gets limited or does the taper change as well? If this is a battery life preservation tactic I could see the taper getting more aggressive as well, which might be why the OP claims it has increased charge time beyond where it would if it was just the max power that was limited.
Tesla really needs to disclose this kind of stuff, so we can make informed decisions about how to use our vehicles. I will curtail my CHAdeMO use (which is 95+% of my charging for the last 1.5-2years, no home/work charging) and find a way to use more L2 if that is going to result in less limiting.
Tesla really needs to disclose this kind of stuff, so we can make informed decisions about how to use our vehicles. I will curtail my CHAdeMO use (which is 95+% of my charging for the last 1.5-2years, no home/work charging) and find a way to use more L2 if that is going to result in less limiting.
jchag
Member
El Boricua
Member
Just at the San Diego Qualcomm supercharger, 50% occupancy, my X90D alone in 3B. Getting over 90kW. Then went down to 65, even when I was still alone in 3B (no other car in 3A). Then the very low rate (35 kW) seen in the previous 3 charges was most probably to the overcrowdness of the San Diego SC.
Attachments
El Boricua
Member
I started SC at 90 but most of the charge was continued at 40-45 kW even when no car parked in 3A. However there are more cars now in the SC. Got 75 miles in 20 minutes. Do anybody has an explanation for this?
Attachments
As you reach a higher state of charge (SoC), your charge rate will slow down as not to damage the battery by approaching the top end too quickly. You won't receive optimal kW once you go above 70 percent or so, depending on whether or not you have a software limited battery.
Tesla does recommend charging up to 80% to be most efficient timewise. Going from 80% to 100% would require almost double the charge time that it took you for the 80% level. So going to 90% (like it looks like in your screen shot) you're going to be encountering some of the tapering off of charge speed. Here's a link to Tesla's explanation and they have use a graphic with a 90kWh Model S: Supercharger | Tesla
I find this thread interesting, because the OP says he only has 30k miles and has encountered this "throttling". I have 148k miles. My daily commute I cannot make it to work and back on a single charge. I range charge to 100% every morning I go to work (I have to, or else I wont have enough left to make it to the supercharger in order to get home), and I supercharge almost every day during the week, sometimes twice a day. Twice a week it can even be 3x daily. I've been doing this for 4 years now. The number of times I supercharge is ridiculous, probably more than anyone else ever has. There's no way the OP has even come close to the number of times that I supercharge. Yet I have experienced no throttling and always observe around 117-118kWh during the beginning of charging. It does take about 30-40 minutes to go from 0-80% and from 80-100% can be another 30-40 minutes. This is normal AFAIK.
Logically thinking a simple "counter" every time you plug in wouldn't make sense from an implementation perspective either since it doesn't differentiate the difference between a 1% charge and a 99% charge. This would imply that if I sat there and all I did was plug in unplug plug in unplug plug in unplug for hours on end even though it is not really gaining any charge I'd hit the threshold and suddenly be throttled even though my battery state remained the same. (Admitting have not yet read through the entire thread yet if there is more info about this that I don't know yet).
On the flip side , I have observed my "usable kW" to only be about 61kW on a 2013 P85 "B" battery (going from 100% to 0% car shutting down and kWh used showed was between 60 and 61). And since I charge to 100% daily (which is between 231-238), and take it down below 10% quite often, when I get down to like 10-15 miles range left I'm always at like around 57-59kW used. This does seem to confirm that my usable kW is only around 61 maybe 62kW , far shy of the 77 it originally started out at. Regardless, I have never seen any throttling happening for supercharge rates.
Oh and BTW there is no "reserve". My car did shut down right when I hit 0 miles so it does seem that the range displayed is accurate and there isn't any phantom "10 miles buffer" that some people claim or falsely believe.
I don't frequent these forums as much as I used to. Maybe once every other month I'll glance at it, which is why you don't see me posting much anymore. Had to put in my 2c on this one.
Logically thinking a simple "counter" every time you plug in wouldn't make sense from an implementation perspective either since it doesn't differentiate the difference between a 1% charge and a 99% charge. This would imply that if I sat there and all I did was plug in unplug plug in unplug plug in unplug for hours on end even though it is not really gaining any charge I'd hit the threshold and suddenly be throttled even though my battery state remained the same. (Admitting have not yet read through the entire thread yet if there is more info about this that I don't know yet).
On the flip side , I have observed my "usable kW" to only be about 61kW on a 2013 P85 "B" battery (going from 100% to 0% car shutting down and kWh used showed was between 60 and 61). And since I charge to 100% daily (which is between 231-238), and take it down below 10% quite often, when I get down to like 10-15 miles range left I'm always at like around 57-59kW used. This does seem to confirm that my usable kW is only around 61 maybe 62kW , far shy of the 77 it originally started out at. Regardless, I have never seen any throttling happening for supercharge rates.
Oh and BTW there is no "reserve". My car did shut down right when I hit 0 miles so it does seem that the range displayed is accurate and there isn't any phantom "10 miles buffer" that some people claim or falsely believe.
I don't frequent these forums as much as I used to. Maybe once every other month I'll glance at it, which is why you don't see me posting much anymore. Had to put in my 2c on this one.
sillydriver
Member
I love my P85DL and have put on 22k miles in two years, but all within about as 50 mile radius of my farm in northern Virginia (a typical jaunt to a grocery store is a 35 mile round trip). I have never once charged anywhere except my garage: I have never even seen a supercharger in person. Personally, I think this duty cycle is what Teslas are perfect for. Obviously there are many (other than me) who find multiple stops on a long trip to be relaxing breaks, but since you clearly care about the longer charging times that you are now stuck with, I would consider an Audi RS7, which has about the same price, dimensions, and highway passing performance. No AP, but there is some offset in a fancier interior.
Similar threads
