Improving Supercharger Availability $0.40 idle fee

[S4WRXTTCS]

So, after 39 pages of 20 posts each the TL;DR version is:

Move your car from the Supercharger when it's finished charging.

The End.

You either didn't read the 39 pages, or you have some serious reading comprehension issues.

What actually happened.

1.) Tesla announced the idle fees for all superchargers all the time.
2.) California Tesla owners rejoiced in celebration
3.) Owners outside California went WTF? Why at a mostly empty charger?
4.) Owners outside California complained loudly.
5.) Elon changed the plan so it wasn't applicable to mostly empty superchargers.
6.) Most everyone wins. A good balance was struck.
7.) Thread continued on for whatever particular reason motivates people to continue talking about it past the relevancy. I can't really say why because I'm doing it myself.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'd like to know how Tesla will charge these folks 40 cents per min while I waited to charge my car at the Tinton Falls NJ Outlet Mall Supercharger today December 23, 2016 at 3pm...

Security did nothing!

View attachment 207493 View attachment 207492

This kind of problem will decrease as the number of Tesla's on the road increase. It's a resource, and if there aren't people there using/defending it then other people will use it.

If you go to that exact spot next year you'll see a lot less ICE'ing.

I had the unfortunate experience of being at a California supercharger during Black friday, and there were ZERO ice cars. Of course there were Telsa's at each stall.

There was no way an ICE car would even dare take up a spot.

 

[Cloxxki]

About those ICE's at the SC. I've never keyed a car, but feel the urge swelling inside of me.
Are there no extention cables so SC's can be reached from an awkward parking position? Then hope that the ICE driver want to drive away before charging is over. Making a point of keeping the car locking in the stall seems called for anyway.
Really, if Tesla has right to these parking spots, shouldn't illegal parkers not be lined up for a fine? You betcha I get fined when parking at a restricted parking spot.

 

[Ulmo]

Read the first 4 pages but not going to have a chance to catch up on the rest.

This policy is long overdue and I'm thrilled with it provided they fix a few things first.

1) We need to have reliable SMS messaging to our phones that work even if the app has quite or isn't running which is the case on my Android frequently. I almost never getting the charging updates and even when I do, there is no audible notification.

2) We need SMS messages when charging is about to finish and not just when it does because 5 minutes may not be long enough to walk back from this or that restaurant.

3) They need to not charge use parking lot fees if they can't notify us. For instance, my MS, which only has 3g, spends less than half the time on the AT&T. If I don't hotspot to my android, my MS isn't connected more than half they time. Tesla has suggested that they can fix this issue for $500 but I'm not paying them $500 to fix something I already paid for and should already work.

4) They need to notify is when the charging rate has dramatically increased. Just yesterday I was at Red Robin in Manteca. We spent an hour there eating lunch but only needed about 10 minutes of charging. However, the supercharger would only charge 30KW. I was in 3b. Nobody was in 3a. It said would take 40 minutes to charge. I checked it again 20 minutes later and it said 20 minutes left. So far so good except for the slowness but I wasn't in a rush this time otherwise I would have swapped until I got a good charge rate. Then I checked int 10 minutes later and it said it was done. WTF????? When I checked VT at home, I'd discovered that about 21 minutes into charging, the charge rate jumped up to 84KW and quickly reached the 60% setpoint ( I was only 60 miles from home). Did I just get charged a fee for staying in that spot for 10 minutes after finshing? I checked like 3 times throughout and never got an app notification even though the car was connected this time. I didn't receive any notifications of overages but then again my app is 3 months old since last updated and there is no new update.

I'm sure there are dozens of issues just like the 4 above that I haven't identified but will be things they need to work out.


I really think they should do demand pricing like they do for fastrak lanes. When the traffic is light, it costs less...maybe just $0.30 for the 580 stretch in Livermore, Dublin, and Pleasanton but during bumper to bumper rush hour, it can be almost $6. This is not confusing or inconsistent. I really don't understand all the opinions here that say it has to the same everywhere. Having demand pricing and having it be the same policy based on how crowded the SC is is not inconsistent. I just means that those SCs that are out in the middle of nowhere that are never crowded will have very low or non existent after charging docking fees while the ones in SoCal will cost a fortune if you stay too long after you charge....as they should....as long as the notification system is working and as long as you were notified.

I agree with everything you said, so I'm just quoting your whole message. I can hardly add anything to it. I'll try, though:

Demand pricing makes sense. If I'm in a cheap area with cheap people getting a cheap sandwich with only 2 Teslas charging in 8 stalls, the last thing I'll expect is a San Francisco parking charge. If I want to pay San Francisco parking charge rates, I better get a lot of service for that.

Similarly, if I am in some high target area, let's say San Mateo (the first place I had to wait in line to charge), and the charge fee is high, that makes perfect sense. There's lots of things to do nearby that are 10 minutes walk back to the car. If the car gives you 15 minutes notice that your charge will be finished, you have plenty of time to make it back. Go ahead and charge a lot when it's busy. Not only can the people there afford it and expect it, but it would move people along. On the other hand, don't go overboard, since people there are already pretty sensible and trying to be quick; adding insult to injury wouldn't help. I had started the day at 100% and the only thing I did was I had just gone to a doctor's appointment and my car was at 2%; I wasn't using the SuperCharger for vanity (like the first few days when I was testing everything). If the checkout line at Whole Foods developed a 5 minute delay and the SuperCharger decided to stop charging my car 5 minutes early, don't give me a huge idle fee bill for what amounts to noise in timing (especially considering speed of shared equipment stalls and how fast the cars charge when the new one pulls in).

 

[sorka]

About those ICE's at the SC. I've never keyed a car, but feel the urge swelling inside of me.
Are there no extention cables so SC's can be reached from an awkward parking position? Then hope that the ICE driver want to drive away before charging is over. Making a point of keeping the car locking in the stall seems called for anyway.
Really, if Tesla has right to these parking spots, shouldn't illegal parkers not be lined up for a fine? You betcha I get fined when parking at a restricted parking spot.

If I had a supercharger cable long enough to reach an extra 12 feet or so, you'd see me double parking those ICE cars in place.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

So would an inconsiderate driver like this have to pay $1.20 a minute?

 

[Garlan Garner]

So would an inconsiderate driver like this have to pay $1.20 a minute?
View attachment 207827

$1.20 would be perfect - after a $100 initial fine.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So would an inconsiderate driver like this have to pay $1.20 a minute?

Well, actually since they are blocking half of that Supercharger - no idle charges...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

$1.20 would be perfect - after a $100 initial fine.

Addressing real abuse needs solutions for real abuse - idle charges are not the solution for that. I'd have no problem with the $100 fine for such parking or towing or wheel locks/stall ports (e.g. A very simple way to avoid ICEd parking lots). Blocking structures between stalls (e.g. low metal bars) could help too.

 

[mrElbe]

So would an inconsiderate driver like this have to pay $1.20 a minute?

Maybe that driver did not order the reverse gear option.

 

[oktane]

Five minutes is not enough leeway. Some superchargers or at least a 10 minute walk away from shopping area.

 

[TexasEV]

Five minutes is not enough leeway. Some superchargers or at least a 10 minute walk away from shopping area.

So start walking back sooner. Plan to be back at your car by the time charging is finished. You have a 5 minute grace period if you're not, but that doesn't mean you don't think about returning to your car until the 5 minute grace period starts!

 

[napabill]

You either didn't read the 39 pages, or you have some serious reading comprehension issues.

What actually happened.

1.) Tesla announced the idle fees for all superchargers all the time.
2.) California Tesla owners rejoiced in celebration
3.) Owners outside California went WTF? Why at a mostly empty charger?
4.) Owners outside California complained loudly.
5.) Elon changed the plan so it wasn't applicable to mostly empty superchargers.
6.) Most everyone wins. A good balance was struck.
7.) Thread continued on for whatever particular reason motivates people to continue talking about it past the relevancy. I can't really say why because I'm doing it myself.

+1

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So start walking back sooner. Plan to be back at your car by the time charging is finished. You have a 5 minute grace period if you're not, but that doesn't mean you don't think about returning to your car until the 5 minute grace period starts!

The problem is the unpredictable ending time makes planning for return hard. It can quickly vary by many tens of minutes depending on stall condition and sharing.

 

[ohmman]

The problem is the unpredictable ending time makes planning for return hard. It can quickly vary by many tens of minutes depending on stall condition and sharing.

You keep saying this, and since I don't have the same experience (but don't doubt that it's possible), can you refer me to some supporting body of evidence? I've seen a couple of anecdotes here, but no real cohesive evidence. It would be interesting for me to digest.

 

[MP3Mike]

You keep saying this, and since I don't have the same experience (but don't doubt that it's possible), can you refer me to some supporting body of evidence? I've seen a couple of anecdotes here, but no real cohesive evidence. It would be interesting for me to digest.

I have to assume that something like this could happen:

• Car pulls in to 1A and starts charging at full speed.
• Car pulls in to 1B and starts charging at "paired" speed.
• Car in 1A leaves as they got the few extra miles they needed.
• Car in 1B now finishes much earlier than estimated since it is no longer paired.

I don't know how likely that is but it certainly can happen.

 

[ohmman]

I have to assume that something like this could happen:

• Car pulls in to 1A and starts charging at full speed.
• Car pulls in to 1B and starts charging at "paired" speed.
• Car in 1A leaves as they got the few extra miles they needed.
• Car in 1B now finishes much earlier than estimated since it is no longer paired.

I don't know how likely that is but it certainly can happen.

Thanks, Mike. I understand the mechanics of the complaint. I just think that the car in 1A is vastly more likely to unplug during taper, when 1B has already taken an increase in amperage. Does anyone know how the car estimates the time remaining in this case? I don't suspect that it refers to the SOC in the paired vehicle (though I really like that idea), but does it look solely at the snapshot of current charging rate to estimate charge needed?

 

[mblakele]

What if 1A is a 60 with a 75 pack, so it doesn't really taper?

In practice I still wouldn't expect it to matter. The phone alert should give you plenty of time, especially if you set your limit to 100%. Or if you're anxious about it, watch your phone.

 

[MP3Mike]

In practice I still wouldn't expect it to matter. The phone alert should give you plenty of time, especially if you set your limit to 100%. Or if you're anxious about it, watch your phone.

But there is the problem that some people don't have a smartphone, or don't have a compatible smartphone. (Tesla still doesn't provide a Windows 10 app.) If they provided SMS notifications then this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

After all these pages (some I've written on), the thing I don't get, is that if you are a reasonable person and occasionally mistime returning to your car by small amounts, then you might have $5 to $25 of fees at your next service appointment. Then, and we don't know this, maybe they waive or discount them if under a certain threshold.

I'm also confused that it seems many here will pop an artery trying to rush back to their car in mortal terror of a small charge, but wouldn't bother crossing a street or take a 15 minute hike if they were told there was a coffee tin guaranteed to have a $5 spot for them inside at the end of the walk because their time is so valuable to them.

This whole thing has come about because there are abusers (mostly in California, or super high density areas) that charge and park overnight, or all day while at work. They more than likely got the car without having any sort of home charging themselves. Tesla was problably ok with this at first, just wanting to sell cars, and might even still be ok with this if owners charged and moved. But as we know in California, many charge and park, which just doesn't work here.