Improving Supercharger Availability $0.40 idle fee

[AnxietyRanger]

What about them? And just so you don't think I'm angry or something, I don't have a smartphone and I'll be charging my Model 3 at a Super Charger now and again.

I like to think of myself as at least somewhat intelligent for my species and my parents definitely taught me to be courteous, thusly I do believe I got this. I will stay at my car and chit chat with others/sunbathe/listen to a 'Learn To Speak Mandarin' recording/read a book on how to clean wind instruments/clean out my car/whatever, or I'll learn how long it approximately takes to get the amount of charge I want/need and plan my away-from-car excursion accordingly. And if I happen to guestimate wrong, I'll pay the idle fee, make adjustments for future guestimates so as to avoid the embarrassment of having to apologize profusely to anyone I may have been blocking from charging.

Finally we agree.

The solution from now on is to stay with your car when you are Supercharging.

Tesla did market it differently in the past, but now this is the way forward, I agree. It is the only way to meet the new expectation.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned a few pages back and I missed it, but this is my limited experience with idle fees and nearly full superchargers:

My MX was finally ready for me to pick up, so the work order had been closed allowing the app on my phone to function. The show room hooked my car up to one of their 8 superchargers and left it. I received the "nearly charged" message, then I received the "charging complete message" then 5 minutes later and every five minutes for the next hour I received a message basically stating "your charging has been completed, move your car". Unfortunately I don't recall word for word what it said. The next day as I was driving down to the show room, they topped my car up to 100% knowing I had a long drive home. About 20 minutes before I got there charging completed and I again started getting the "move your car" messages every 5 minutes. When I arrived 5 of the 8 stalls were full. I never did get a message about idle fees being charged.

I'm also confused about the "$.40 fee" on the SC locations in the onboard Nav. Montana is listed as having that fee, yet in the last month I have been charging at various stations, I have only seen 1 other car twice. The other couple dozen times I have been alone...

Interesting additional data point.

Being charged idle charges for your Service Center visit is an interesting additional twist to all this.

 

[azdryheat]

This example is a microcosm of the actual issue.

Look, I'm not saying the guy in this example is a saint - I've agreed some idle charges to him are warranted - but let's not kid outselves. At $0.40/min, it does not take long to get to $800 if you Supercharge regularly.

The idle charges started a little over a month ago. Charging every day that $800 would be around 65 idle minutes a day (of course at work one would not charge on the weekend probably). Not parking there for days on end, just coming an hour late to the car daily. A little more if we exclude weekends.

To extrapolate from this example a normal user over a years time (the time between expected service center visits), accumulating $800 over a year is hardly difficult with this setup, where you have to keep watching some app (without a reliable estimate) to know when to return to your car. Some people made it sound as if they guy parked there in the morning and came back in the evening - this is not the case.

Do you think people will love the Tesla experience when $800 extra is slapped on them at annual visits? Get that warm fuzzy feeling of EV service center visits being cheaper than with an ICE? That fee will be associated with the Tesla experience. And at that stage, so much after the fact, there isn't much help for the actual issue (SpC congestion) there either...

I fear implemented this way the system will end up being counter-productive. Some idle charges are fine. Just make a more predictable and followable system that the average person can react correctly to and avoid the charges with reasonable effort.

I think you will have one unhappy Tesla owner and hundreds of happier Tesla owners (including myself).
And everyone was told. When I have used Superchargers, I would never have had more than a few minutes idling time before this was instituted. Now I know to make sure I don't go over. More than once I saw someone park overnight. Very rude and selfish.

 

[KJD]

Finally we agree.
The solution from now on is to stay with your car when you are Supercharging.
Tesla did market it differently in the past, but now this is the way forward, I agree. It is the only way to meet the new expectation.

I have never had a problem taking a break and returning to the car before the charge is finished. This is very easy to do, all you have to do is open your eyes and observe. The phone app is very easy to use and you can see the state of charge at any time, so not a problem.

This has been explained here in this thread many many times.

If you want to sit in the car the entire time and make yourself miserable worrying about it well that is your problem.

 

[JHuberman]

Bad charge time estimate causes late return:
I was at the Greenville SC supercharger. After a few minutes the time to charge finally settled down to 50 minutes. It is a 15 minute walk to the restaurants - No problem... 15 minutes walk, 20 minutes eat, 15 minutes return. While we were eating, 25 minutes later I got a message that charging was complete. It isn't reasonable to be given an estimated time and after using that information to plan a responsible return charge late fees because the car charged faster.

Hey, I'm not complaining about fast charging, the faster the better, but give me accurate information, or at least a spread i.e. 30 to 50 minutes.

Another useful bit of information Tesla could provide is how full the SC station is in real time. Knowing that the station was nearly full would certainly be an incentive for responsible Tesla owners to make sure that they moved their car as soon as it was ready for their next leg of their trip so others could start charging

 

[JHuberman]

Some Superchargers allow limited general parking:
I have used Superchargers that that have signs that say, for instance, "2hr parking". I assume the land lease required Tesla to allow others to park in the SC locations. We should not be charged until the 2 hour limit is exceeded.

This is not to imply that one should not move a car so others can charge, but only with regard to Tesla charging overtime fees.

Traveling on the East Coast over the last month (2000 mi) I have never been to a supercharger location that was even 50% full, so I have not had the frustration that those of you living in California have had.

 

[4SUPER9]

I have never had a problem taking a break and returning to the car before the charge is finished. This is very easy to do, all you have to do is open your eyes and observe. The phone app is very easy to use and you can see the state of charge at any time, so not a problem.

This has been explained here in this thread many many times.

If you want to sit in the car the entire time and make yourself miserable worrying about it well that is your problem.

Exactly. Why is it that there are people who MUST rely on a notification to see what the status is of their state of charge? Just look at the app! Did people actually forget that their in the middle of a road trip and their car is charging? The notifications are notoriously not reliable. I just hope they get better by the time the 3 comes out.

I will be taking a long trip tomorrow. I intend to have a nice long leisurely dinner about a 10 minute walk away. If my car is done charging, I may have to run back and move it. At the same time, I am typically the only one charging there (Lone Pine), so I have no need to be too concerned. It would be nice to see from the App how many stalls are in use/free. For example, if I see all the other stalls remain open, I relax and wait until I am done. If I see there is only one spot left, I would bolt for my car and drive it back to the restaurant. It is my responsibility to behave.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Bad charge time estimate causes late return:
I was at the Greenville SC supercharger. After a few minutes the time to charge finally settled down to 50 minutes. It is a 15 minute walk to the restaurants - No problem... 15 minutes walk, 20 minutes eat, 15 minutes return. While we were eating, 25 minutes later I got a message that charging was complete. It isn't reasonable to be given an estimated time and after using that information to plan a responsible return charge late fees because the car charged faster.

Hey, I'm not complaining about fast charging, the faster the better, but give me accurate information, or at least a spread i.e. 30 to 50 minutes.

Another useful bit of information Tesla could provide is how full the SC station is in real time. Knowing that the station was nearly full would certainly be an incentive for responsible Tesla owners to make sure that they moved their car as soon as it was ready for their next leg of their trip so others could start charging

This is why you need to stay in or very near the car looking constantly at the app to make sure. Unless you want to pay idle fees of course.

I can not believe people do not know how unreliable Supercharging estimates and the app are. This is not uncommon.

I sense a lot of wishful thinking in this thread.

 

[Sasmania]

Finally we agree.

The solution from now on is to stay with your car when you are Supercharging.

Tesla did market it differently in the past, but now this is the way forward, I agree. It is the only way to meet the new expectation.

Oh hell no.
I'm not staying with my car. The last thing I want to do, especially on a long road trip is to sit in or be stuck near the car for 30 to 50 minutes.
Is it that hard to leave and come back within 5-10 minutes of it being done?

Personally, I think the "pay at your next service visit" is lame..maybe I don't really need that scheduled maintenance....but at the same time I don't want 18 separate $1.20 charges on my card a month. Can't they just do monthly billing or charge you when you pass $100 in fees? If the goal is getting cars out of the SC's, then "feeling the pain" of the fees needs to be more often than delaying it till your next service. Not that I plan on racking up fees...just thinking out loud.

 

[CuriousG]

While we were eating, 25 minutes later I got a message that charging was complete. It isn't reasonable to be given an estimated time and after using that information to plan a responsible return charge late fees because the car charged faster.

If you got the message that the charging is done, then you should have gotten a message that charging is almost complete. Since you obviously have the app, you could also have set the app to charge to 100% giving you in the likelyhood of an additional 30 minutes. Charging depends on many factors including whether you're on a paired stall, if the grid is limiting amount of current due to peak demand, whether the stall is underperforming (not in your case), state of charge, etc.

You didn't mention whether or not there were other people charging at the location. If it was less than half capacity, there would still be no idle fee charges.

 

[4SUPER9]

Oh hell no.
I'm not staying with my car. The last thing I want to do, especially on a long road trip is to sit in or be stuck near the car for 30 to 50 minutes.
Is it that hard to leave and come back within 5-10 minutes of it being done?

Personally, I think the "pay at your next service visit" is lame..maybe I don't really need that scheduled maintenance....but at the same time I don't want 18 separate $1.20 charges on my card a month. Can't they just do monthly billing or charge you when you pass $100 in fees? If the goal is getting cars out of the SC's, then "feeling the pain" of the fees needs to be more often than delaying it till your next service. Not that I plan on racking up fees...just thinking out loud.

Monthly charge to your credit card would be a reasonable practice, but so would an instantaneous charge. More importantly, if you were to receive 18 separate charges in 1 month, that means you overstayed your welcome 18 times in 1 month, and you are the problem and why this fee was initiated. I believe, however, that you were being facetious.

If you were to receive a credit card charge, the absolute minimum would be $2.00 ($0.40 x 5 minutes), as anything less than 5 minutes is within the grace period.

 

[JHuberman]

If you got the message that the charging is done, then you should have gotten a message that charging is almost complete. Since you obviously have the app, you could also have set the app to charge to 100% giving you in the likelyhood of an additional 30 minutes. Charging depends on many factors including whether you're on a paired stall, if the grid is limiting amount of current due to peak demand, whether the stall is underperforming (not in your case), state of charge, etc.

You didn't mention whether or not there were other people charging at the location. If it was less than half capacity, there would still be no idle fee charges.

There was no problem this time. The place was nearly empty like all my experience in the SE. I'm trying to point out situations that I believe should be accommodated so by the time we are busy in the East the bugs have been worked out and there is a consensus that it is fair.

One should know the minimum time that one can be gone when leaving the car. In fact I was charging to 100%, but I don't get much taper on my 60.

 

[BerTX]

If you got the message that the charging is done, then you should have gotten a message that charging is almost complete. Since you obviously have the app, you could also have set the app to charge to 100% giving you in the likelyhood of an additional 30 minutes. Charging depends on many factors including whether you're on a paired stall, if the grid is limiting amount of current due to peak demand, whether the stall is underperforming (not in your case), state of charge, etc.

You didn't mention whether or not there were other people charging at the location. If it was less than half capacity, there would still be no idle fee charges.

@CuriousG has a refresh MS60. We don't get that "just set it to 100% and take your time" delay option. We are usually (or at least frequently) set to 100% at Supercharger stops, and since the charge rate is still about 35 kW at 100%, it doesn't give much extra time even if we WERE set to 80% when charging started.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

If you were to receive a credit card charge, the absolute minimum would be $2.00 ($0.40 x 5 minutes), as anything less than 5 minutes is within the grace period.

Hmm. I was under the impression that since the first 5 minutes were the grace period, it wouldn't ever charge for those. I was thinking it would only charge $2.00 if you were there for 10 minutes after charging completed. (10-5)*$.40 = $2.00. Does anyone else think this way as well?

Update: Thanks @TexasEV and @MP3Mike for the clarification concerning idle fees. I understand now that they start immediately after the 5 minute grace period and would include the grace period.

BTW, I've traveled via Superchargers from California to eastern Kansas and don't think I ever returned to the car after it completed charging. This was before the idle fee was implemented but if it had existed, I never would've been affected by it.

 

[TexasEV]

Hmm. I was under the impression that since the first 5 minutes were the grace period, it wouldn't ever charge for those. I was thinking it would only charge $2.00 if you were there for 10 minutes after charging completed. (10-5)*$.40 = $2.00. Does anyone else think this way as well?

No. Grace period means you won't be charged if you return during that time. If you return after that, you'll be charged for the entire time. So there are no 40 or 80 cent charges. If you return in 5 minutes after your car finishes charging, it costs nothing. If you return 6 minutes after the car finishes charging, it's $2.40.

 

[MP3Mike]

Hmm. I was under the impression that since the first 5 minutes were the grace period, it wouldn't ever charge for those. I was thinking it would only charge $2.00 if you were there for 10 minutes after charging completed. (10-5)*$.40 = $2.00. Does anyone else think this way as well?

Nope, the way they worded it you only get the 5 minute grace period if you leave during that 5 minute period.

 

[thecloud]

If you got the message that the charging is done, then you should have gotten a message that charging is almost complete. Since you obviously have the app, you could also have set the app to charge to 100% giving you in the likelyhood of an additional 30 minutes.

Tesla has created a strong incentive to always set your charge limit to 100% at the supercharger, regardless of whether you need it. You can still plan for a shorter session, unplugging as soon as you get back to the car and have the charge you actually need, but if the fee clock starts as soon as charging stops, an unexpected delay of 5 or 10 minutes won't cost you if your charge session is still going.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla has created a strong incentive to always set your charge limit to 100% at the supercharger, regardless of whether you need it. You can still plan for a shorter session, unplugging as soon as you get back to the car and have the charge you actually need, but if the fee clock starts as soon as charging stops, an unexpected delay of 5 or 10 minutes won't cost you if your charge session is still going.

I am not sure if you are aware, but Superchargers do not always charge to 100%. They may abruptly stop sooner.

 

[TexasEV]

I am not sure if you are aware, but Superchargers do not always charge to 100%. They may abruptly stop sooner.

You keep saying that, but I've never seen it. Sure it may happen if it's broken, but in that case I would think Tesla would waive the fee. That's not a reason to keep harping on this point.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You keep saying that, but I've never seen it. Sure it may happen if it's broken, but in that case I would think Tesla would waive the fee. That's not a reason to keep harping on this point.

If a broken charger were the only scenario I was concerned with, then sure, I'd agree. It of course is not.