Install a 50amp or a 60amp breaker?

[ucmndd]

Don't listen to that guy. TESLA themselves say for 48A charging, you need a 60A breaker.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

Yes, with a wall connector. The OP is asking about a 14-50 plug, which can NOT be installed with a 60 amp breaker and be code compliant under any circumstances. A 14-50 plug can provide 40 amps maximum for continuous loads by code.

A 14-50 plug is a 50A plug. You can't just put a 50A breaker behind a 50A plug.

Putting a 50 amp breaker on a 50 amp circuit is precisely what you should do. That's how it works. That's what's expected. That's the correct thing to do.

Yes the car will only draw 38A with the gen3 mobile charger.

32 amps actually.

What happens if you plug something in to the 14-50 50A plug that actually tried to draw 50 amps? It will just trip your 50 amp breaker.

This is precisely what it should do, to protect the wiring if something tries to draw more than 50 amps. This is what circuit breakers do.

 

[ropogigio724]

I spoke to the electrician and he told me that its ok to put bigger wiring to handle 60amp, use the 14-50 plug with the 50amp breaker and when I decided to upgrade to the wall charger all I have to do is change the breaker to the 60amp breaker and install the wall charger. This way no need to rewire anything.

 

[ucmndd]

I spoke to the electrician and he told me that its ok to put bigger wiring to handle 60amp, use the 14-50 plug with the 50amp breaker and when I decided to upgrade to the wall charger all I have to do is change the breaker to the 60amp breaker and install the wall charger. This way no need to rewire anything.

Yes, that's perfect advice.

One additional consideration, you might save a little money by wiring a 6-50 outlet instead of a 14-50 as the first step.

The 14-50 has a neutral conductor that isn't used by the wall connector, so if you're eventually going to switch over, no need to run wire you're not going to use. Just get the 6-50 adapter for your mobile connector instead of the 14-50.

 

[ropogigio724]

Yes, that's perfect advice.

One additional consideration, you might save a little money by wiring a 6-50 outlet instead of a 14-50 as the first step.

The 14-50 has a neutral conductor that isn't used by the wall connector, so if you're eventually going to switch over, no need to run wire you're not going to use. Just get the 6-50 adapter for your mobile connector instead of the 14-50.

Wish I knew that before I ordered the 14-50 adapter lol thanks for the advice! Since you seem very well versed in this, one question, If my wife decides to upgrade her Audi Q5 to either a Model Y or Model X, and we both get the wall chargers, can I use the same line to share the power without having to run another line to the breaker box? From what I have seen and researched, looks like they are smart enough to split the power so its not overloading the line. Is that correct?

 

[Sophias_dad]

From what I have seen and researched, looks like they are smart enough to split the power so its not overloading the line. Is that correct?

I've answered that several times. Gen2 HPWC allows it(and sorta expects it), Gen3 HPWC manual says you should have a separate set of wires and separate breaker for each HPWC(and I even pointed to the page in the manual!). I'm not sure why they don't expect a shared line/breaker on the Gen3, it seems silly.

I'm gonna guess that they've made the innards of the Gen3 HPWC a bit 'weaker' so they'd be able to blow a 60 amp breaker, but if they were installed in a shared-scenario(on lets say a 100 amp breaker and REALLY thick wire) and a bad failure mode occurred, it might absorb 100 amps for a long enough time to burst into flame.

 

[ropogigio724]

I've answered that several times. Gen2 HPWC allows it(and sorta expects it), Gen3 HPWC manual says you should have a separate set of wires and separate breaker for each HPWC(and I even pointed to the page in the manual!). I'm not sure why they don't expect a shared line/breaker on the Gen3, it seems silly.

I'm gonna guess that they've made the innards of the Gen3 HPWC a bit 'weaker' so they'd be able to blow a 60 amp breaker, but if they were installed in a shared-scenario(on lets say a 100 amp breaker and REALLY thick wire) and a bad failure mode occurred, it might absorb 100 amps for a long enough time to burst into flame.

Yes thank you I have seen it being done with one line with the Gen 3 charger which is why I’m trying to get confirmation.

 

[Rocky_H]

And actually, the Gen3 HPWC expects two separate runs to two separate breakers. The Gen2's would share a single run. See page 24 of https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

I've answered that several times.

...incorrectly.

Gen2 HPWC allows it(and sorta expects it), Gen3 HPWC manual says you should have a separate set of wires and separate breaker for each HPWC(and I even pointed to the page in the manual!). I'm not sure why they don't expect a shared line/breaker on the Gen3, it seems silly.

You are continually getting that wrong by misunderstanding what they are saying in the manual.
The Gen 3 wall connectors CAN share one main circuit and one main wiring run from the main panel, as described in the manual. (but not in reality, which I'll explain later)
The difference you are pointing to is how the final split in the garage has to be done. On the Gen 2, they offered two possible ways to do it: with breakers or just a "Y" split of the wires with Polaris connectors. On the Gen 3, they say to not use the wire splitting method anymore, and you have to do that final dividing up in a subpanel with breakers. But it doesn't have to be two completely separate runs all the way back, as you are saying.

So for example, let's say the main panel is really far away from the garage. You put in one 50A breaker in the main. You do a single long 100 foot wire run to get to the garage. There, you put in a small subpanel with two 50A breakers and send two runs out from that for the last 10-20 feet or whatever to the opposite sides of your garage to the two wall connectors. Set them up to share, and that's how it is supposed to work...eventually.

BUT, now comes the rest of the answser. Dumbass Tesla Inc. replaced a perfectly excellent working product in the Gen 2 wall connector with a pathetically unfinished piece of crap in the Gen 3 wall connector. They say that someday they plan to offer circuit sharing like that over wi-fi with some future software update, but they haven't gotten around to it yet and have no estimate of when that will actually come.

So as of right now, the Gen 3 still can't power share, but the Gen 2 can.

 

[tilt]

One additional consideration, you might save a little money by wiring a 6-50 outlet instead of a 14-50 as the first step.

The 14-50 has a neutral conductor that isn't used by the wall connector, so if you're eventually going to switch over, no need to run wire you're not going to use. Just get the 6-50 adapter for your mobile connector instead of the 14-50.

One reason I put in a neutral is I can hook up an RV if needed. Could also be a little bonus selling point for the home in the future. The cost of the neutral wire when doing it yourself is pretty negligible. Can't speak for what additional and electrician might charge, but wouldn't hurt to ask for both options when getting a quote.

 

[ropogigio724]

...incorrectly.

You are continually getting that wrong by misunderstanding what they are saying in the manual.
The Gen 3 wall connectors CAN share one main circuit and one main wiring run from the main panel, as described in the manual. (but not in reality, which I'll explain later)
The difference you are pointing to is how the final split in the garage has to be done. On the Gen 2, they offered two possible ways to do it: with breakers or just a "Y" split of the wires with Polaris connectors. On the Gen 3, they say to not use the wire splitting method anymore, and you have to do that final dividing up in a subpanel with breakers. But it doesn't have to be two completely separate runs all the way back, as you are saying.

So for example, let's say the main panel is really far away from the garage. You put in one 50A breaker in the main. You do a single long 100 foot wire run to get to the garage. There, you put in a small subpanel with two 50A breakers and send two runs out from that for the last 10-20 feet or whatever to the opposite sides of your garage to the two wall connectors. Set them up to share, and that's how it is supposed to work...eventually.

BUT, now comes the rest of the answser. Dumbass Tesla Inc. replaced a perfectly excellent working product in the Gen 2 wall connector with a pathetically unfinished piece of crap in the Gen 3 wall connector. They say that someday they plan to offer circuit sharing like that over wi-fi with some future software update, but they haven't gotten around to it yet and have no estimate of when that will actually come.

So as of right now, the Gen 3 still can't power share, but the Gen 2 can.

Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. My electrician was just here and installed the 14-50 outlet. This will be good enough until we get the 2nd Tesla which were planing in about 2-3 years. For now this will work great and will upgrade to the wall connectors in the future.

 

[Rocky_H]

This will be good enough until we get the 2nd Tesla which were planing in about 2-3 years. For now this will work great and will upgrade to the wall connectors in the future.

2-3 years, huh? It's a race. We'll see if Tesla has rolled out the software to implement circuit sharing by then.

 

[ropogigio724]

2-3 years, huh? It's a race. We'll see if Tesla has rolled out the software to implement circuit sharing by then.

Lol yeah hopefully they do. Not a race but we want to in 2-3 years to replace the wife’s Q5 with a Model X.

 

[dmurphy]

2-3 years, huh? It's a race. We'll see if Tesla has rolled out the software to implement circuit sharing by then.

All the more reason I'm 1,000,000% pleased I ordered a 2nd Gen2 HPWC, instead of a Gen3. They're on separate circuits, not power sharing but the stability of the Gen2 alone made that the right call.

Gen3 is *not*, in any discernible way that I see, an upgrade from Gen2.

 

[Sophias_dad]

You are continually getting that wrong by misunderstanding what they are saying in the manual.
The Gen 3 wall connectors CAN share one main circuit and one main wiring run from the main panel, as described in the manual. (but not in reality, which I'll explain later)
The difference you are pointing to is how the final split in the garage has to be done. On the Gen 2, they offered two possible ways to do it: with breakers or just a "Y" split of the wires with Polaris connectors. On the Gen 3, they say to not use the wire splitting method anymore, and you have to do that final dividing up in a subpanel with breakers. But it doesn't have to be two completely separate runs all the way back, as you are saying.

Actually, I may have conveyed it less then ideally, but still suggested the subpanel-in-garage as an option...

If you are really expecting a second HPWC, it might be wise to put a small subpanel in the garage, or install two sets of wires(if its NMB wiring). If its being run through conduit, just make sure the conduit is big enough for a second set of wires or a change to larger wires for the potential subpanel.

Of course, OP could just look at(or have his electrician look at) the exact page in the manual I pointed at go get the very same information in its original format.

I agree the Gen3 is an awful product.

 

[Rocky_H]

Gen3 is *not*, in any discernible way that I see, an upgrade from Gen2.

No, it is a pathetically inferior and unfinished product in several objective metrics, and it's an insult that it costs the same as the Gen 2.

It's lower power, shorter cable, doesn't have the circuit sharing implemented yet, has the glitchy "configuration incomplete" software setup issues, is being plagued with most of the units having this phantom fake overheating problem that they say they can fix in software.

The only benefit seems to be that it's lighter.

 

[iluvmacs]

The only benefit seems to be that it's lighter.

It's also much easier to install! :-D
(Seriously, the mechanical engineers of this product ought to be commended for making what's probably the easiest hardwired EVSE to install on the marketplace.)

 

[Sophias_dad]

It's also much easier to install! :-D

I don't see how it could be much easier than the Gen2... it had three wires a dip switch and a dial. I admit I haven't installed a Gen3, but isn't it three wires, and hopefully connecting it to wifi, and setting the current via wifi?

 

[iluvmacs]

I don't see how it could be much easier than the Gen2... it had three wires a dip switch and a dial. I admit I haven't installed a Gen3, but isn't it three wires, and hopefully connecting it to wifi, and setting the current via wifi?

Installation, not setup. I mean in terms of mounting the backplate on the wall, installing conduit & wires, and putting the rest of the unit together.