This is the first time I've heard of this. They just really want these cars to charge as slow as possible.
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Is this the new charging rate?
- Thread starter ddawson
- Start date
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Ugh... woe is me. My wonderful 2013 60kwh Model S that I have been enjoying for the last 6 years and 160k miles has now been officially crippled.
I got complacent. I got back into a routine of just allowing updates, so I don't have that stupid nag screen every time I get in the car. Little did I know it was going to cripple my car's ability to DC fast charge.
So I immediately noticed when I preheated the car this morning, no regen or rather very little. Not even a very cold day here, well above freezing. Probably 50 degrees F in my garage. Er, OK well I will put up with that... but what's going on... check out TMC, ok lots of problems with this latest update. No battery heater when using the app to update. OK, bug maybe. Hopefully Tesla fixes soon, I can live with it for now.
But the DC fast charging.... hmmm... well I am going to need that today as well, it's Christmas eve after all and I got places to go, So, running errands, battery getting low, time to charge. Plug into the supercharger, less that 25% in the battery, should be a good charge rate... only person at the supercharger.... .....and Sh*t. 40kw peak... PEAK!! WTF! goes down to 32kw from there. My god that's practically AC charging speed. THAT"S SLOWER THAN MY GOD DAMN NISSAN LEAF!
Calm down... breath... ...OK this battery shouldn't be that cold, I have been driving all over. Mostly just highway, no freeway, but still.
...OK in the name of science, let's heat this battery up. I pull out of the supercharger and go for a loop. Full throttle, Full regen, Full Throttle, Full regen, on and on for about 12 miles. Beating the car to hell, but I gotta know what's going on...
...Pull back into the supercharger. The cooling fans are singing. The car is hot. The battery must be hot.
Plug her in... should be seeing a decent charge rate here... ...the cooling system is running, I turn off the cabin HVAC and I can hear the AC compressor running... not too loud, so not full blast but going.... the battery has to be decently warm... 53kw. ...SHEEEETTT
Better than 30kw, but still. Mind you my car, not less than a month ago would still peak at 102kw on the supercharger.
I got complacent. I got back into a routine of just allowing updates, so I don't have that stupid nag screen every time I get in the car. Little did I know it was going to cripple my car's ability to DC fast charge.
So I immediately noticed when I preheated the car this morning, no regen or rather very little. Not even a very cold day here, well above freezing. Probably 50 degrees F in my garage. Er, OK well I will put up with that... but what's going on... check out TMC, ok lots of problems with this latest update. No battery heater when using the app to update. OK, bug maybe. Hopefully Tesla fixes soon, I can live with it for now.
But the DC fast charging.... hmmm... well I am going to need that today as well, it's Christmas eve after all and I got places to go, So, running errands, battery getting low, time to charge. Plug into the supercharger, less that 25% in the battery, should be a good charge rate... only person at the supercharger.... .....and Sh*t. 40kw peak... PEAK!! WTF! goes down to 32kw from there. My god that's practically AC charging speed. THAT"S SLOWER THAN MY GOD DAMN NISSAN LEAF!
Calm down... breath... ...OK this battery shouldn't be that cold, I have been driving all over. Mostly just highway, no freeway, but still.
...OK in the name of science, let's heat this battery up. I pull out of the supercharger and go for a loop. Full throttle, Full regen, Full Throttle, Full regen, on and on for about 12 miles. Beating the car to hell, but I gotta know what's going on...
...Pull back into the supercharger. The cooling fans are singing. The car is hot. The battery must be hot.
Plug her in... should be seeing a decent charge rate here... ...the cooling system is running, I turn off the cabin HVAC and I can hear the AC compressor running... not too loud, so not full blast but going.... the battery has to be decently warm... 53kw. ...SHEEEETTT
Better than 30kw, but still. Mind you my car, not less than a month ago would still peak at 102kw on the supercharger.
Basically we are going to have to post this on every youtube video comment section etc:
Tesla over air updates have now:
1: Taken 20 miles range overnight
2: Severely reduced regen to the point of being pointless
3: Reduced supercharging rates by a very large amount
Sure your new Model 3 can charge at silly rates, but they can change all that a few years down the line with an update as they have to Model S cars.
Tesla over air updates have now:
1: Taken 20 miles range overnight
2: Severely reduced regen to the point of being pointless
3: Reduced supercharging rates by a very large amount
Sure your new Model 3 can charge at silly rates, but they can change all that a few years down the line with an update as they have to Model S cars.
guarantee the battery was still cold. takes a bit more than that to get it up to an ideal charging temp. youi need to heat all the fluids first + lots of other stuff & the battery casing is a large cold sink too.
do you have a data logger?
get one if you are really curious why your charge rate sucks / my S will pull close to a normal charge curve at something like 113F
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Well it's about all I could do to get it any hotter. I do think the battery was at least reasonably warm due to the way the cooling system was running. The AC compressor was operating and I had the HVAC off. But I have no specific data other than that.
Yesterday I did a duplicate test, I drove the car continuously until the battery was depleted with the point of using the freeway right to the supercharger. The charge rate sucked. For practical purposes, there is no way to improve heating the battery in any normal use case. It used to never be this way with this car. It obviously changed due to the firmware update.
I think I will go with your recommendation and start getting some data logging. I already have a blue tooth OBDC adapter, and some adapter cables that I got from Jack RIchard a few years ago. Just never got around to installing it. The other issue is I don't have any android devices which is required for the scan my tesla app. But now the motivation is there...
Yesterday I did a duplicate test, I drove the car continuously until the battery was depleted with the point of using the freeway right to the supercharger. The charge rate sucked. For practical purposes, there is no way to improve heating the battery in any normal use case. It used to never be this way with this car. It obviously changed due to the firmware update.
I think I will go with your recommendation and start getting some data logging. I already have a blue tooth OBDC adapter, and some adapter cables that I got from Jack RIchard a few years ago. Just never got around to installing it. The other issue is I don't have any android devices which is required for the scan my tesla app. But now the motivation is there...
My S has been sitting for more than a week. 40F overnight temps, battery cold soaked.. 50Fs & 4K max charge. You can see the battery heater working as I sat in the unplugged car. Model 3 ideal battery charge temps are in the 130F+ range.old S 115 or so.
...anyone saying battery heating isn’t working
I don’t even have a supercharger destination in my nav. That was a few minutes. Only <4kW but still heating
Last edited:
richrootes
Member
Ok, well this is pretty much confirmed as a major issue now. I think the reduced regen is actually very dangerous - having owned the car for five years now, I was used to how it behaved across a wide range of ambient temperatures. This muscle memory data has now been thrown out of the window
The question is, what do we do about it? Moaning on forums is all well and good, but I think we all need to write to Tesla to express our frustration - and if we have to go to a third party to downgrade the firmware on our cars, so be it
AP1 and older cars are no longer getting meaningful updates, so I don’t think we would be missing out
As I’ve said elsewhere, I have defended Tesla to the hilt in the past - but am finding it increasingly difficult to do so
The question is, what do we do about it? Moaning on forums is all well and good, but I think we all need to write to Tesla to express our frustration - and if we have to go to a third party to downgrade the firmware on our cars, so be it
AP1 and older cars are no longer getting meaningful updates, so I don’t think we would be missing out
As I’ve said elsewhere, I have defended Tesla to the hilt in the past - but am finding it increasingly difficult to do so
Same here. My car is almost 6 years old. Software have not added functionality nor meaningful features for the last 2 years. Quite the opposite. The UI got worse, but more importantly, my car has been limited and downgraded in so many ways. Tesla can't take away features and performance as they like. My car isn't charging slower because the battery can't, but because Tesla adjusted the rate down via software. How is this even legal?
AMPd
Well-Known Member
What program are you using to get that kind of information?View attachment 493558 View attachment 493559
My S has been sitting for more than a week. 40F overnight temps, battery cold soaked.. 50Fs & 4K max charge. You can see the battery heater working as I sat in the unplugged car. Model 3 ideal battery charge temps are in the 130F+ range.old S 115 or so.
...anyone saying battery heating isn’t working
I don’t even have a supercharger destination in my nav. That was a few minutes. Only <4kW but still heating
Nope range mode off here, 9 deg C is hardly cold and regen is at pointless levels even below 50% battery charge.
9C hardly cold for what ice cream?
ii's too cold for Brie or other soft cheeses & charging batteries.
50F range is too cold
15C is still too cold.
25C too cold for max charge
~ 35C getting there
40C probably closer to ideal for charging
Nope, charging at 9Deg C is just fine (build and supply lithium built battery packs) as long as you are not turbo charging. A 1C charge at 9Deg C is just fine as it would taper nearer completion.
But to have zero regen at 9deg C when I used to have at least 40kw regen at way below that is just taking it a bit too far, makes me think something is seriously wrong to restrict them this much overnight.
But to have zero regen at 9deg C when I used to have at least 40kw regen at way below that is just taking it a bit too far, makes me think something is seriously wrong to restrict them this much overnight.
beatle
Active Member
That was not my experience on Christmas Eve. I saw the battery temperature come up to around 90 degrees while en route to a Supercharger. Temps came back down to the upper 70s / low 80s after supercharging. This was steady state highway travel, and I could see the battery heater coming on via the ScanMyTesla app.
It's possible that some cars that have had their batteries nerfed are also not preheating; it may not specifically be tied to the software version as I am also on 2019.40.2.
Babaron
Member
Somebody please talk to me about range mode and battery heating. I usually leave range mode on in the winter time to save battery power but is that the wrong thing to do if I’m planning to supercharge?
I've found that range-mode turns off the battery heater and for my uses (10 mile urban drive in the winter) the battery heater is counter productive. I've also read that it also throttles battery cooling which may impact battery life if driving under load in the summer. It also throttles cabin heat/AC; I haven't used it much in the summer but have found that the heat is sufficient in the winter. Lastly I understand it adjusts the bias of front/rear motors to probably make the car not quite as fast but slightly more efficient as quick as normal mode.
I'm not sure how tesla decides to turn on / off the battery heater for things like getting ready for supercharging; for instance I don't know if having range mode on disables the supercharger pre-heat.
One thing I don't understand is -- can tesla dump the energy from regen into the battery / cabin heaters even if the pack is too cold to actually dump it into the battery itself?
I personally don't mind the variable regen force but I imagine it would be extremely disconcerting to someone else who isn't paying much attention to the car and just wants it to car. Plus, it would be nice to not wear out my (probably expensive to service) brakes.
Range mode reduces AV and heater power a little. It's very minor, though. The most noticeable effect is that it sets a higher temperature target for the battery. Normally Tesla tried to keep the battery around 30 C. With Range Mode on, it is hoovering around 40 C. In reality it makes little difference as the battery temperature varies a lot based on so many factors. Range Mode also reduced the use of the battery heater which is probably the biggest effect it has. One way or another, if you have a longer trip and you know it's going to be tight, turn on Range Mode will help to a degree.
cpobuyer
Member
I had scheduled a service appointment to look into the charging issues. Tesla support called me and explained that there are no issues with the car, as per some remote diagnostics that they ran - is that even a thing to check the battery?
In the service request, I had shared pictures (attached) of the center console with starting, mid and final charging state as follows:
a) 11:03pm - 48% - 29kW
a) 11:14pm - 55% - 32kW
a) 11:58pm - 84% - 24kW
Since this was late in the night, there were very few cars and I wasn't sharing power with anyone. I had tried 2 other locations on different days and had the same result. Apparently, this is not enough evidence to look into my car without the diagnostic fee of $95.
Any recommendations?
In the service request, I had shared pictures (attached) of the center console with starting, mid and final charging state as follows:
a) 11:03pm - 48% - 29kW
a) 11:14pm - 55% - 32kW
a) 11:58pm - 84% - 24kW
Since this was late in the night, there were very few cars and I wasn't sharing power with anyone. I had tried 2 other locations on different days and had the same result. Apparently, this is not enough evidence to look into my car without the diagnostic fee of $95.
Any recommendations?
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