Isn't this car wide, at 2011mm (79.2inches)? I know it is out of question in Japan, but how about Europe?
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Jaguar I-Pace
- Thread starter AnxietyRanger
- Start date
And yet, the 2018 Bolt EV’s EPA highway rating is 110 MPGe whereas the 2018 Nissan LEAF with the ~40 kWh battery pack gets 100 MPGe EPA highway. Meanwhile, their city ratings are nearly identical at 125 for the LEAF and 128 for the Bolt EV.
Aerodynamics is just part of the highway efficiency story. And, for what it’s worth, GM says the Bolt Cd is .308. Nissan used to claim .28 on the pre-2018 LEAF but a Car & Driver wind tunnel comparison between several cars found the LEAF Cd to be .32 while confirming GM’s claimed value for the Chevy Volt featured in that article.
Different wind tunnels and testing methodologies can find slightly different values so C&D’s comparison of those cars using the same wind tunnel was useful. I don’t know offhand what Nissan claims for the Cd of the 2018 LEAF. Probably the Bolt and LEAF aerodynamics are about the same overall.
One possible answer for the apparent low range is that they have a lot of buffer at the top and bottom. The i-pace has 432 cells with 58 Ah capacity. At 3.6V average, that's a total pack capacity of 90.2 kWh. Say they use 10 kWh for buffer - that would mean only 80 kWh available. That's only slightly more than a Model 3 Long Range.
One calculation that could support this is that the WLTP consumption is 0.212 Wh/km. With 480 km, that's a 101.76 kWh consumption including charging losses. Estimating the charge loss isn't a perfect science, but if the capacity is 80 kWh, it would be 101.76 / 80 kWh -1 = 27.2%
That's probably a bit on the high side, actually. 85-ish kWh available may be more correct.
One calculation that could support this is that the WLTP consumption is 0.212 Wh/km. With 480 km, that's a 101.76 kWh consumption including charging losses. Estimating the charge loss isn't a perfect science, but if the capacity is 80 kWh, it would be 101.76 / 80 kWh -1 = 27.2%
That's probably a bit on the high side, actually. 85-ish kWh available may be more correct.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Ipace is a great car, Bolt is a great car. They are both small and to expensive for what you get. Its just a fact. They are both good starts, the original Roadster was probably a bit to expensive for what you got. You gotta start somewhere. I do not see this impacting sales for Tesla at all, except maybe in the UK. The rest of the 20k-30k over the next couple of years will be Jag fans and good for them. This experience will hopefully mean better vehicles in the future. Its a good solid start for Jag and I do like their new styling. Lots of sex appeal in their smaller vehicle while still very elegant int he larger vehicles. I dont know much about reliability, I know it was an issue a decade ago, I would assume its better now. Again, I am not hating on the Ipace, but its very pricey for what you get, especially the size and range because it seems to perform very well, about as well as a Model 3 at 1.5x the price.
I'm not sure it's cheaping or as such - I think it's more using typical parts without recognizing the impact.
Aside from Tesla and that 43kW AC charging car in Europe, I don't think there's anyone doing more than 32A AC charging.
I haven't seen anything on what EVSE Jaguar plans to provide, but without access to Tesla Destination Charging, ways to charge faster than 32A are rare anyway - most public chargers are 32A.
I know Canada installed some faster ones on a couple highways, too.
There was a brief mention of pack cooling in the video stream, when they were talking about the pack design, but no details there either.
Merrill
Merrill
Yep. It’s too soon to really know but for now I am assuming about 83-85 kWh usable on a 90-92 kWh nominal pack and 80% of that is about 67 kWh. On a DC charger that implies an average charge power of about 89 kW. They claim to charge at up to 100 kW during the first 15 minutes of charging starting with an empty pack.
It's the lack of three phase charging that some find sub-par.
The BMW i3 has an 11 kW charger (16A 400V three phase). So does the B-class Electric Drive (with Tesla charger). The Zoe does 22 kW or 43 kW (32-63A 400V three phase). The Model S and Model X have 16.5 kW charging (24A 400V three phase).
People were expecting more. There are *many* 11 kW and 22 kW chargers in Europe. 22 kW chargers are even becoming common in private parking garages, where you have load sharing.
BTW: If you connect an i-Pace to an 11 kW public charge point, you will get a measly 3.6 kW. It will only be able to use one of the three phases. That sucks especially much since you will usually pay for the full 11 kW, regardless of how little you can utilize.
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Interesting. Here in the U.S. the i3 has 32A/7 kW charging - which as I understand it actually comes from two separate modules.
I hadn't realized the iPace charger was so poorly suited to Europe. Here in the U.S. it's at the high end of typical of everything other than Tesla.
I don't understand why they wouldn't have good European charging solutions since they seem to be launching there first?
It seems quite obvious that they 'benchmarked' Tesla for this as there are so many similarities.
From the 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' standpoint, Tesla should be proud that they set the standard for others to follow.
Also, this goes along with the story that Tesla is here mainly to inspire the industry to transform.
( Now, we get to see how much they actually dislike real competition. )
I like what Jaguar did with the i-Pace, but Model 3 still makes more sense for me.
From the 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' standpoint, Tesla should be proud that they set the standard for others to follow.
Also, this goes along with the story that Tesla is here mainly to inspire the industry to transform.
( Now, we get to see how much they actually dislike real competition. )
I like what Jaguar did with the i-Pace, but Model 3 still makes more sense for me.
Interview with Wayne Burgess, studio design director in a Norwegian newspaper:
"During the presentation of the new electric car, an acceleration test was shown in which the Jaguar beats a Tesla Model X. The designer believes Jaguar is in a unique position to make a good electric car, although they obviously looks to the competitor Tesla. - Small companies can experiment and we are quite small. Tesla has shown a way, and all other startup looks to Tesla when making an electric car. Exclusive, sporty cars manufactured in low volume. We have also looked at Tesla, one must. Jaguar is nonetheless different because we have been producing cars for a long time. We know how we can make it drive well and make a good interior design. But Tesla is visionary, they have opened the market and done it in their own way. Elon Musk draws everyone forward. I'm pretty sure he's coming to Mars, Burgess says."
"During the presentation of the new electric car, an acceleration test was shown in which the Jaguar beats a Tesla Model X. The designer believes Jaguar is in a unique position to make a good electric car, although they obviously looks to the competitor Tesla. - Small companies can experiment and we are quite small. Tesla has shown a way, and all other startup looks to Tesla when making an electric car. Exclusive, sporty cars manufactured in low volume. We have also looked at Tesla, one must. Jaguar is nonetheless different because we have been producing cars for a long time. We know how we can make it drive well and make a good interior design. But Tesla is visionary, they have opened the market and done it in their own way. Elon Musk draws everyone forward. I'm pretty sure he's coming to Mars, Burgess says."
jelloslug
Active Member
travwill
Active Member
They have to do it. But they don't have to like it or advertise it... people might think about buying electric cars if they did that.
That is a froot.
This, my friend, is a frunk.
https://ipbzz73v1i-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Model-S-DTR-660x400.jpg
It's an air channel. The grille scoops in air, it goes through there and out the vent you can see on the hood, then over the roof. They claimed it aids aerodynamic performance. You can see through there when standing by the wing mirrors.
For those saying this will not steal sales from Tesla: One of my friends is a reservation holder and is out in Graz as a guest of Jaguar, having considered a Model S for a while and two more are thinking of ditching their 3 orders for it.
For those saying this will not steal sales from Tesla: One of my friends is a reservation holder and is out in Graz as a guest of Jaguar, having considered a Model S for a while and two more are thinking of ditching their 3 orders for it.
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