Just come across the phantom braking issue, considering canceling my order

[Tam]

I have never had this problem on other brands....

My guess is you are not among 1.7 million Honda owners affected by phantom braking:

1.7 million Hondas are being investigated for phantom braking

NHTSA has received 278 complaints about inappropriate automatic emergency braking.

arstechnica.com

I guess you didn't drive a Nissan either:

Nissan Sued Over Alleged Phantom Braking

Nissan has been named in a class-action lawsuit claiming certain of its vehicles’ AEB caused them to stop for no apparent reason.

thebrakereport.com

How about a Mazda:

Phantom Braking Leads to Mazda 3 Recall

A system designed to detect obstacles in the road ahead and automatically apply the brakes is acting up in current-generation Mazda 3 vehicles.

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

 

[DerbyDave]

My guess is you are not among 1.7 million Honda owners affected by phantom braking:

1.7 million Hondas are being investigated for phantom braking

NHTSA has received 278 complaints about inappropriate automatic emergency braking.

arstechnica.com

No, I'm talking about good cars like Mercedes, Audi, and BMW.

 

[Dinevski]

I used to experience some Phantom Breaking on a particular route I drive everyday. This completely stopped a few months ago, I assume after a software update. Since whatever update fixed this I have not had a single phantom breaking event (knock on wood).

 

[ucmndd]

My guess is you are not among 1.7 million Honda owners affected by phantom braking:

This is also disingenuous.

1.7 million CARS, 278 reports.

0.00016% of potentially affected owners filed a report.

Not sure what the Tesla numbers are, but I’m willing to bet there have been more than 278 phantom braking events across the Tesla fleet in the time it took me to write this response.

 

[DerbyDave]

I think bad Map Data is responsible for some phantom braking that occurs in the same spot all the time. I have those too, but I know where they are and can prepare. The new Nav Map update made these areas more numerous in Kentucky.

 

[Tam]

No, I'm talking about good cars like Mercedes, Audi, and BMW.

Some Tesla owners don't experience it but that doesn't mean it never happens in Tesla.

Same with Mercedes:

Another Scary Phantom Braking Episode Captured by 2022 Mercedes-Benz CLA Driver


Audi forum:

Phantom stomp on brakes? - AudiForums.com

Audi A6 - Phantom stomp on brakes? - My A6 wagon has twice in one year experienced a sudden jolt and what seems to be a brief but completely unnerving braking of the wheels (with foot nowhere near the brake pedal) for no more than a second or two. Any clues out there? Scares the living $#!% out...

www.audiforums.com

BMW forum:

Ghost braking

www.bimmerfest.com

 

[Hayseed_MS]

In 47k miles, it has happened maybe 3 or 4 times. While very rare for me, I am pretty sure the cars falling closely behind me poo'd a little when it did happen.

It happened on my past cars as well.

 

[emailforbrett]

My phantom braking is so frequent, my family won't let me use Autopilot when they are in the car. I don't use Autopilot at all because I have to be on "high alert" at all times knowing the car will slam on the brakes at any moment. I reported it to the NHTSA almost a year ago after experiencing it several times. It's my only real complaint about the car other than the stiff suspension. The vibration, the vinegar AC, the yoke, the WiFi connectivity, etc.... that stuff is minor as compared to the phantom braking. That will cause an accident one day.

 

[johnnycnote]

3 months into my M3 and I've experienced phantom braking maybe 3 or 4 times. As stated before, it's a decrease in speed when it doesn't seem to be warranted. Giving it some juice gets the vehicle back on track

 

[mscott]

It’s also way less severe than you think. Not once had anyone honked or close to my rear end due to phantom breaking. The car reduce 5mph instantly. It feels like it’s slamming on the brakes. But to other cars it’s not that severe.

To my startled passengers, it's very severe.

 

[SageBrush]

Finally: I know that what follows is going to sound like conspiracy-theory central, but, unfortunately, it's true: There's a decent-sized crowd of folks that would like Tesla to up and fade away. Some of these are the obvious, like competing car companies. Others are not quite as obvious: Oil companies. For real. Then there's just trolls out for the Lutz. And newspapers, who get a lot of advertising dollars from dealers, but nothing from Tesla, often take shots at the company; it's not the small newspapers, either, it's entities like the LA and NY Times. Really. The general rule is that if an errant driver runs their Tesla into a tree and the car manages to catch on fire as a result, there's a three-ring circus and parade that runs down the road doing a look-at-that; any other car that flies off a bridge and kills a half-dozen people in the flaming wreck doesn't get mentioned at all, because it's common.

I'm a Tesla advocate and shareholder, but I disabled the safety features in my new Model Y and for now, do not use the DCC -- all to try and avoid phantom brake events. I got spooked by multiple events driving home after delivery where the phantom braking would reduce my speed over 10 mph in under a second.

I'm going to try it again in controlled conditions after I clean the car and the software updates. As for whether to buy the car, my take on this is that OTA is a double-edged sword. Tesla iterates quickly, and we all benefit from owning cars that improve over time. The trade-off is that sometimes software takes a step backwards before it advances. I'm OK with this since I can disable the part I'm unhappy with until it improves.

 

[mscott]

My phantom braking is so frequent, my family won't let me use Autopilot when they are in the car. I don't use Autopilot at all because I have to be on "high alert" at all times knowing the car will slam on the brakes at any moment.

This is exactly my experience. It doesn't happen all that often, but it's highly unpredictable. I had it happen numerous times (10+) driving across Kansas on I-70 where there was literally nobody else in sight, so these are not like—as some others have suggested—a case of me not seeing something and the car saving me.

On the highway, it's bridge guard rails that seemed to provoke PB most frequently, but it also seems that the "oasis effect" can trigger it. Also, it does seem to happen a lot less often in heavy traffic. I haven't ever had a PB event in stop-and-go traffic, and the more cars there are around me the less it happens.

 

[TessP100D]

Is this as bad as it sounds? Just came across some discussion from Tesla owners(!) who are really upset about the phantom braking that is still presently an issue. It sounds like a really scary problem. At this point I’m considering canceling my Tesla order because this is a hard safety dealbreaker I haven’t come across in any other vehicles I was cross-shopping. Is it only some some cars? I have a 22 Model S with only Autopilot on order.

Fandom breaking in a Tesla is really dangerous. Just drive the car.

 

[Alysashley79]

I have a ms with ap1 and a 22 m3 with AP (No FSD)
Here is my take on the situation. Have I experienced phantom breaking? Sure. Is it “severe” or “harsh”? Maybe twice. Does it keep me from using AP. Nope.

Part of it happening is how you as the driver react. Tesla (and no other mfg) is at a point where you can SAFELY drive and do something else (like so so so many people do) if you’re paying attention to the road and just allowing the car to drive you can easily and quickly apply some pressure to the accelerator and it resolves the problem.

Imo people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is because people are sue happy(and yea I’ll likely be lambasted for that but don’t care) I’ve talked to two people at supers in the last few days that are like I’m on board with a class action. . Is tesla perfect. Nope. I’m not a fanboy or fan girl just someone whose driven the cars on AP a lot in many different states and it doesn’t seem to be this huge issue that’s being made of it.

 

[Mark II]

Does anyone with lane centering/adaptive cruise control experience on other brands have input on this? People say the Subaru Eyesight can't have problems like this because they use depth perception with dual cameras or something like that. I know my 2022 Hyundai has been really good to me so far, nothing worrisome has happened yet. I am relatively preemptive on cautious roads, but I honestly think it may be a design philosophy difference. Tesla is pushing the boundaries, and Hyundai is not - they're just trying to get something out there that is really safe. I know Hyundai can't do a lot of curves as it will refuse a certain amount of pressure on the wheel like Tesla will, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here, it's more the adaptive cruise control tech? Shouldn't that be an easier problem overall? I wonder why Tesla is having so much trouble with it compared to other brands. The adaptive cruise control on my Hyundai has been basically bulletproof, nothing I can recall that made me worry about it.

I drove a 2016 Hyundai Sonata for about 2 full years before getting my first Model S in 2018. In those 2 years the Sonata had one instance of phantom braking (PB), yet it was worse than anything I have ever experienced in either 2018 S with Radar or 2022 S with Vision. Basically the Sonata came to compete stop using full braking power, such that I could feel the ABS kicking in, from about 40 mph to zero. Fortunately no one was behind me at the time otherwise they would have rear ended me for sure. I don't recall if I was using TACC at the time or if it was the emergency braking that did it. Either way there was nothing in front of me but clear road.

As others have noted, the PB in the Tesla is usually gradual enough that I just hit the accelerator to speed up again. Also, after a while you can start to predict where it is likely to happen and get your foot ready. Long shadows across the road and driving under overpasses it where it happens most often for me.

The other time I get slow downs is when the car thinks I have taken and offramp, yet I am still on the freeway, so it thinks the speed is 25 mph and start to slow down in the same way as it would if NOA took the offramp.

 

[Mark II]

Well how would you? It’s a condition that is limited to driver assistance modes.

There is something called automatic emergency braking, which could happen in manual mode, yet I have never experienced it myself in a Tesla.

 

[Mark II]

I think bad Map Data is responsible for some phantom braking that occurs in the same spot all the time. I have those too, but I know where they are and can prepare. The new Nav Map update made these areas more numerous in Kentucky.

I also experience this when the GPS is a little off and the car thinks it is on a side road instead of the freeway. Happens less often these days, although I had an instance just last week in my 2022 S using FSD on a city street. It was so bad I had to disengage. It not only kept slowing down, but also kept trying to turn right at every intersection to get me back to the road . After about 10 minutes of driving the GPS corrected itself and all was good again.

 

[Mark II]

My phantom braking is so frequent, my family won't let me use Autopilot when they are in the car. I don't use Autopilot at all because I have to be on "high alert" at all times knowing the car will slam on the brakes at any moment. I reported it to the NHTSA almost a year ago after experiencing it several times. It's my only real complaint about the car other than the stiff suspension. The vibration, the vinegar AC, the yoke, the WiFi connectivity, etc.... that stuff is minor as compared to the phantom braking. That will cause an accident one day.

You make a good point. I have gotten used the PB and know when to apply accelerator, however my wife does not like it and asks me to turn off AP when she is in the car. She is now driving the 2018 S and stopped using AP because of the PB. Says it makes her feel ill when the car slows down when she does not expect it.

 

[electricguycar]

I have a ms with ap1 and a 22 m3 with AP (No FSD)
Here is my take on the situation. Have I experienced phantom breaking? Sure. Is it “severe” or “harsh”? Maybe twice. Does it keep me from using AP. Nope.

Part of it happening is how you as the driver react. Tesla (and no other mfg) is at a point where you can SAFELY drive and do something else (like so so so many people do) if you’re paying attention to the road and just allowing the car to drive you can easily and quickly apply some pressure to the accelerator and it resolves the problem.

Imo people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is because people are sue happy(and yea I’ll likely be lambasted for that but don’t care) I’ve talked to two people at supers in the last few days that are like I’m on board with a class action. . Is tesla perfect. Nope. I’m not a fanboy or fan girl just someone whose driven the cars on AP a lot in many different states and it doesn’t seem to be this huge issue that’s being made of it.

Ah this was my other consideration. I get lane centering/adaptive cruise control in my Hyundai for the reduce in mental stress while driving, but I NEVER try to do something else other than being alert to the road while driving. I was thinking this phantom braking could be coming across more severe for the Tesla drivers who treat driving as something they now no longer need to be as attentive to. But I would always be attentive. If it's really simple to catch it and accelerate if you're constantly paying attention to the road, that's understandable. I just wonder then how freaky/sudden/startling is the phantom braking? I've frequently seen people say it's startling, and many people in this thread are corroborating that and saying they turn off AP. Well, that would defeat the whole purpose of getting a Tesla, at least for my circumstances.

 

[electricguycar]

I drove a 2016 Hyundai Sonata for about 2 full years before getting my first Model S in 2018. In those 2 years the Sonata had one instance of phantom braking (PB), yet it was worse than anything I have ever experienced in either 2018 S with Radar or 2022 S with Vision. Basically the Sonata came to compete stop using full braking power, such that I could feel the ABS kicking in, from about 40 mph to zero. Fortunately no one was behind me at the time otherwise they would have rear ended me for sure. I don't recall if I was using TACC at the time or if it was the emergency braking that did it. Either way there was nothing in front of me but clear road.

As others have noted, the PB in the Tesla is usually gradual enough that I just hit the accelerator to speed up again. Also, after a while you can start to predict where it is likely to happen and get your foot ready. Long shadows across the road and driving under overpasses it where it happens most often for me.

The other time I get slow downs is when the car thinks I have taken and offramp, yet I am still on the freeway, so it thinks the speed is 25 mph and start to slow down in the same way as it would if NOA took the offramp.

My gosh, being prepared for long shadows sounds miserable. The whole point for me is the AP and mental stress reduction. One great thing about the Hyundai I have is that it consistently reads lines that are barely marked, either during the day or at night, extremely well. Really surprised me.