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Just suspended... Software updates do not reset FSD disengagement counter - disengagements can happen in 1-2 seconds notice and other FSDB gripe/notes

novox77

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,713
5,917
NH, MA
yeah. sure. Perhaps maybe I am one of the few that speak about it? Or maybe I am the worst 0-3mph driver in FSDB. Miles driven certainly make a difference in chances of false positives, as well as different driving conditions (ie sitting still a lot in traffic,lights etc). Two of the disengagements I won't come close to disputing, but the system isn't perfect and I think I have clearly put forth some of the issues and things that could be improved based on my experience in it. I have a great driving record and history for decades, the 'worst' I have driven lately is blinding people with my auto high beams that I couldn't turn off when using FSDB at night.

There's no shortage of criticism on TMC.

I've had my Model 3 for 4 years and have been using AP --> NoA --> FSD beta constantly. One of the things I really appreciated is that the wheel torque nag frequency seems to be tied to speed. At full highway speeds, if you don't touch the wheel, the nags happen about every 30 seconds. But in traffic, the nags significantly reduce, and in bumper-to-bumper traffic, the nags are around 2-3min apart. Never has one occurred while fully stopped (for me). If it's been a long while since stopped, it will happen as soon as the car starts moving. On local streets, nag frequency is higher than on the highway, but again I've never had a nag while stopped at a stoplight, ever. Maybe the probability gods have been acting in my favor these last 4 years, but that seems..... improbable.

Just like some people's cars report lots of false positives with the the 'pay attention' nag, your car might be part of a rare cohort where nags occur at 0mph.

Also, I really don't understand the cowbell thing. If you know that 4 quick downpresses of the stalk will trigger it, why do you keep spamming the stalk? Double-press downward, and if you hear an alert chime preventing you from engaging AP/FSD, wait a second, then try again.

BTW agree with auto high beams and auto wipers. at least with the high beams, you can disable it (albeit every single time you engage FSDb). I'd rather see no auto wipers and just have FSDb drop down to AP (or turn off) if it can't see properly. It already does this on heavy rain days anyway.
 
As for FSD removal, I have read of only two on TMC threads. However, in monitoring the Canadian rollout on Teslafi firmware maps, they made it to 96 owners. Then it dropped to 94 and then 92. So I suspect a couple Canadians got dropped from FSD beta.

So a 4% potential strikeout rate. Not a great metric but a real data point.
 
There's no shortage of criticism on TMC.

I've had my Model 3 for 4 years and have been using AP --> NoA --> FSD beta constantly. One of the things I really appreciated is that the wheel torque nag frequency seems to be tied to speed. At full highway speeds, if you don't touch the wheel, the nags happen about every 30 seconds. But in traffic, the nags significantly reduce, and in bumper-to-bumper traffic, the nags are around 2-3min apart. Never has one occurred while fully stopped (for me). If it's been a long while since stopped, it will happen as soon as the car starts moving. On local streets, nag frequency is higher than on the highway, but again I've never had a nag while stopped at a stoplight, ever. Maybe the probability gods have been acting in my favor these last 4 years, but that seems..... improbable.

Perhaps I sit in a lot more traffic sitting still for significant times, rush hour here is some of the worst in the U.S., but I definitely get nags sitting still and others on this thread have pointed out the same. On the other hand, the forced disengagements do seem to happen as you say when you start moving, but they happen INSTANTLY the split second the car goes from 0-1 MPH, even if you just move an inch and stop, and if there were previous warnings the disengagements happens instantly at that point with no time to 'pay attention' or manually disengage. This is where I got most of my forced diengagement to get suspended. I understand the program is doing what it is told to do I just wish it was bit more flexible when not moving or a low speeds. I agree it does seem better at highway speeds with fewer nags, and it does seem to change some based on situation as you point out, but in my opinion there is still much room for improvement at no/extremally low speed. Now that I am back on some hybrid state with the old software it is much worse again.


Just like some people's cars report lots of false positives with the the 'pay attention' nag, your car might be part of a rare cohort where nags occur at 0mph.

I think in context it should be pretty clear that I am not part of a cohort about this - this is just my experience as an over 50k miles driven in less than 2 years Model Y owner. I love my Tesla but its not perfect and many of the things I am pointing out seem like rather easy fixes if there was just some way to contact them so information gets to the proper person to handle it. Some of the issues, like Telsa reading SMS from months ago instead of the incoming one, have been going on a long time. This could be an Android issue as well, but my previous vehicles didn't do this, and I am using a 100% 'vanllia' Android Pixel, so it a mainstream phone that should be supported and fixed and there are plenty of threads and bug reports to Android/Tesla to read about the problem to conclude that is not a 'cohort' either. The old software is much worse at nagging while sitting still, the new software will force disengage the instant you move from 0-1 mph even if you stop a split second later. My opinion, which is what is open for discussion here, is that there should be some tolerance there.


Also, I really don't understand the cowbell thing. If you know that 4 quick downpresses of the stalk will trigger it, why do you keep spamming the stalk? Double-press downward, and if you hear an alert chime preventing you from engaging AP/FSD, wait a second, then try again.

You don't have to do it super quick, they can be spaced out a bit and I've just done it every day for months in certain spots like leaving my driveway and FSDB engages after a few quick taps, but now the habit creates the cowbell and really annoying. I'll get used to not doing, but muscle memory takes a bit to cancel out. Still, just let me disable the cowboy thing so it never happens, or let me stop it once it starts and don't repeat it over and over if I hit another button while its happening. It should be an easy fix if the right person was ever notified.

BTW agree with auto high beams and auto wipers. at least with the high beams, you can disable it (albeit every single time you engage FSDb). I'd rather see no auto wipers and just have FSDb drop down to AP (or turn off) if it can't see properly. It already does this on heavy rain days anyway.

Maybe this has changed in a recent update, but I swear I tried to disable them multiple times and while it would show them 'off' on the icon, they would still automatically turn on automatically (be on). The only other service ticket I ever made about FSDB was about this and they just told me that it was beta, they never said it could be disabled when FSDB was engaged, if I knew and could do this it would have been so much better. Now that I am in some hybrid disabled FSDB state but not truly on the old software the auto beams are STILL automatically forced on when I enable plain autosteer so I'll see if I can manually turn them off at that point each time tonight. Its going to be REALLY annoying trying to tolerate auto high beams not not enjoying the benefits of FSDB at the same time.

As far as degrading performance on rain days - I think it might use a lot of the same logic for that that it does for windshield wipers as I have had situations where it is raining bad and it doesn't 'degrade' or end navigate on autopilot and other times where it does 'degrade' with just very little drizzle - then other times it works just fine very similar to auto wipers. This leads me to another point, for the most part I agree with Tesla sticking to camera only systems -I am not one of those that preach lidar and all that stuff, I understand the vision and reasoning behind 'vision only'. That being said, there are a few smaller sensors (whatever other OEMS use for rain sensing windshield, cross traffic when reversing, auto high beam sensors) that they probably should have stuck with during the transition because the improvement in those areas have been next to none.

After a night sleep I am a bit less pissed at missing out on driving with FSDB, we will see how that is when I get back in and start expecting logic from the car that isn't there anymore. Hopefully they release to public later this year as Musk plans.
 
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As for FSD removal, I have read of only two on TMC threads. However, in monitoring the Canadian rollout on Teslafi firmware maps, they made it to 96 owners. Then it dropped to 94 and then 92. So I suspect a couple Canadians got dropped from FSD beta.

So a 4% potential strikeout rate. Not a great metric but a real data point.


One of Musk recent tweets on statistics could be relevant here, but I do like to look at things like this. I would say its very likely 4% is a good number. I know I am almost certainly an outlier - but I also argue that my driving situation is also an outlier (number of miles driven a day etc). Out of the 4% I would find it interesting to see how many quit, how many were forced disengagement, how many miles they have driven, how many of the strikes are accumulated from going basically 0-1 mph then stopping again, etc. the more relevant stats the more deduction can come from them. Good stats are fun.
 
EDIT: oh yeah, the freaking 'need more cowbell...' When trying to engage autosteer now I am not used to situations where it won't turn on, so I try to do it a few times in a row. the stupid cowbell thing turns on. and on and on and on. Push up on the stalk the graphics turn off the music blasts over radio, phone etc. Oh, and press the microphone button and the cowbell song RESTARTS, over and over. Have to wait for it to totally finishing before hitting microphone or it never ends. so annoying playing over phone calls etc, where is option to turn that off?!?
As to the cow bell crap, I cant test it right now to see if its still functional - but I remember if you go to the toybox emissions testing and play the fart noise, it cancels the cowbell insanity. Its been many FW updates since I last did this.

My wife oddly discovered that, and shes very technology illiterate heh :) I was so proud
 
Thanks for this! That is a hilarious fix, but it kind of makes sense since it's probably using the same function to play sound out of that toybox. I'm already getting used to not spamming engaging FSDB but when it happens at least I know that's probably a good option as hilarious as it is lol!

EDIT: I just tested this and it works. You can use the fart sound to cancel the cowbell lol.
 
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There are still false strikes and they should definitely look into resetting at least some strikes every X miles driven on FSDB.

And another drive without FSD... ****ing cowbell engaged again when I tried to engage autosteer a few times in a row and it didn't engage (habit from FSDB where it would often engage on the 3rd for 4th try and never started 'cowbell), and again it wont STOP PLAYING until its done playing over every other audio source and starting over and over if you hit the microphone button. A simple toggle to turn this off?!?!?!?

The 'report autopilot' feature is still active... so I am reporting everyitng non fsd beta does wrong like stop at things that are not stoplights etc...

And the ONLY real positive that I thought I'd have without being able to use FSDB was that I wouldn't be forced to use my auto-high beams while on auto-steer at night .... but nope ... the auto-high beams are still FORCED ON when using autosteer. Is this a new across the board thing or because I am in some sort of hybrid FDSB suspend state? The auto-high beam are the worst in the city blinding everyone.

And finally... because I am so used to FSDB, I keep having issues with autosteer due to habit. For instance... I approach a green light where I am mapped to turn right, I forget I am not on FSDB anymore, the car starts to slow down at the light (as it would getting ready to turn), it slows down more and its about to turn, but no, it starts to come to a complete stop, then I remember it stops at green lights unless you give it gas on the old version, I am not used to that and thought I was about to turn automatically which is why it was slowing. I give it gas, and it goes straight, the car coming behind me confused, and I miss my turn while it kicks in that I am not in FSDB anymore. Its going to take awhile for me to get used to this downgrade.
I agree that you should keep sending this information to the earlyaccess fsdbeta email addresses. Include your vin#, explain your case, offer a solution, ask for reinstatement back in the program. They may fix it without responding so be constructive about how you report things. As far as I know, they don't respond to anyone... how could they?

In support of your case, I just got my first strike and I blame it on bright sunlight reflections preventing me from noticing the screen. They could easily add an audio warning... maybe you can suggest it.
 
I agree that you should keep sending this information to the earlyaccess fsdbeta email addresses. Include your vin#, explain your case, offer a solution, ask for reinstatement back in the program. They may fix it without responding so be constructive about how you report things. As far as I know, they don't respond to anyone... how could they?

In support of your case, I just got my first strike and I blame it on bright sunlight reflections preventing me from noticing the screen. They could easily add an audio warning... maybe you can suggest it.
That is a good recommendation. You're right, there is no audible warning. Also keep in mind that as you get multiple warnings on the same drive I am pretty sure you have less chance to acknowledge it to the point to where you have no chance to acknowledge it by the time it disengages.

When I asked the service center about the auto beams they said the only thing to do is report it with a service ticket in the app, I didn't know there was an email address. Where is this located?
 
There's no shortage of criticism on TMC.

I've had my Model 3 for 4 years and have been using AP --> NoA --> FSD beta constantly. One of the things I really appreciated is that the wheel torque nag frequency seems to be tied to speed. At full highway speeds, if you don't touch the wheel, the nags happen about every 30 seconds. But in traffic, the nags significantly reduce, and in bumper-to-bumper traffic, the nags are around 2-3min apart. Never has one occurred while fully stopped (for me). If it's been a long while since stopped, it will happen as soon as the car starts moving. On local streets, nag frequency is higher than on the highway, but again I've never had a nag while stopped at a stoplight, ever. Maybe the probability gods have been acting in my favor these last 4 years, but that seems..... improbable.

Just like some people's cars report lots of false positives with the the 'pay attention' nag, your car might be part of a rare cohort where nags occur at 0mph.

Also, I really don't understand the cowbell thing. If you know that 4 quick downpresses of the stalk will trigger it, why do you keep spamming the stalk? Double-press downward, and if you hear an alert chime preventing you from engaging AP/FSD, wait a second, then try again.

BTW agree with auto high beams and auto wipers. at least with the high beams, you can disable it (albeit every single time you engage FSDb). I'd rather see no auto wipers and just have FSDb drop down to AP (or turn off) if it can't see properly. It already does this on heavy rain days anyway.
I’m guessing they are a pretty chaotic and spastic driver. Can picture repeatedly tapping the stalk while all hunched up on the wheel lol
 
Loo
I’m guessing they are a pretty chaotic and spastic driver. Can picture repeatedly tapping the stalk while all hunched up on the wheel lol
lol. I'm not that bad, but there are times on old software where the wheel appears, so I double tap, while doing so the wheel icons goes away and it beeps, then it comes back on so I do it again but it goes away again and cowbell engages. With FSD it was just habit to hit it a few times leaving house and it would engage coming out of gate after a few tries. The irony is that the strikes I got (3 of them) were in low stress, non hyper focused, relaxed situations (sitting still, at light, or in rush hour stop and go at slow speed traffic).
 
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I don’t know man, but as an engineer if I was running a testing program for testing a human life critical system, I’m not sure if I would want you to be on the beta test. You admit yourself that you have issues with your own vision and are frequently distracted with text messages and your inability to read them on the screen. FSD is fun and all but at the end of the day FSD is a 4000lb death machine that’s driving at 50-60mph while making its own decision. People seem to forget the seriousness of it and think of FSD beta as a fancy gadget-toy.

The car, fellow motorist, pedestrians, and the entire FSD program is dependent on you to not F up. The car can do magical things but there are times that it does dumb stuff too and it’s reliant on you to keep it from doing anything so stupid that it kills someone. You were given 4 opportunities to figure out what is causing your strikes and perform corrective actions to prevent it from happening again but you were unable to do so. The suspension sucks for you but the party is all over for everyone as soon as that first accident happens. If an accident happens it’s not just the end of FSD beta, but probably the end of FSD as a viable thing for another 10 years as autonomous vehicle testing will get regulated to death.

It is also just a suspension, you might get it back after a few updates, or worst comes to worst you’d get it back when FSD is out of beta. A suspension in my view that is worth it if it means we don’t potentially get into a fatal accident involving FSD.
 
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Were you on the phone at those times ?
Anytime I'm driving actually on the phone I'm using it wirelessly with voice controls, however as I have clarified a few times when sitting and when the Tesla is reading the wrong messages to me, I will look down and sometimes have to tap the screen to see which person actually sent message so I can use voice commands to call the right person back. I've stated this before in other responses, two of the strikes were 100% on me, one of the other three gave a strike even though I was shaking the wheel (but not enough to disengage) and looking forward, and 2 of the 5 gave absolutely no time to 'pay attention' or manually disengage before forced disengagement occurred. It is engagement for a mix between looking at the Tesla screen and looking down at the center console area while stopped and The two legit ones were when it saw the phone. My hand, I was pressing the volume button to cause the incoming call to stop ringing one time without looking at the phone and the other time I was holding the power button down to force reboot it, both times not looking at the phone but it was in my hand and I understand technically that's not allowed. I don't dispute those.
I don’t know man, but as an engineer if I was running a testing program for testing a human life critical system, I’m not sure if I would want you to be on the beta test. You admit yourself that you have issues with your own vision and are frequently distracted with text messages and your inability to read them on the screen.
That is not what I said. I have 20/20 from 2-3 feet out, I use readers for the screen and the warning messages placed at the bottom left of the screen are hard to see and can not be made larger. I am certainly not the only person out there with several decades of computer use accounting for needing readers. Speaking of this issue, there needs to be options for larger and better placed warnings, or different chime to identify them. One of the biggest scares I get is when I signal to change lanes, start changing lanes or exiting the freeway, then the system starts beeping and warning me that 'vehicle.is departing lane take control immediately', yet I have just manually signalled and signal is still on, I am in total control manually changing lanes. Of course I am departing lane, but I don't know if maybe missed someone in my blind spot or something else. It does this even with all the lane assist options off. With larger text placed more.toward the top of the screen it would be a bit easier to read, less distance to look away from, or have different chimes, or just fix the thing to not say 'take control immediately vehicle departing lane' when you are signalling and manually departing lane!

As far as reading texts, I should clarify the Tesla reads the texts out load to me and I verbally respond to them with voice controls HOWEVER the Tesla is constantly reading old text messages instead of the ones coming in, and I respond to them and then I get more wrong messages back along with confused people asking what I am talking about. It's a over year long bug that is still not fixed. So yes, I admit when I am completely stopped I look down to see what message actually came. Id rather not do this, but it's not unsafe at that point as I am not moving, then I use voice commands to call the correct person. The problem is in this situation I experienced is that as soon as the car starts moving you can get forced disengagement even if you move the wheel and are looking up right at that point.

FSD is fun and all but at the end of the day FSD is a 4000lb death machine that’s driving at 50-60mph while making its own decision. People seem to forget the seriousness of it and think of FSD beta as a fancy gadget-toy.

I've driven over 100 miles a day with probably 60-70% on FSDB or FSD highway on during those times since late November. Before that I drove like a granny for almost two months, over 100 miles a day, to keep safety score at 99 to qualify. I would argue that trying to meet the safety score was the most unstafe I've ever driven in the Tesla, driving to keep safety score is not how people drive here in the city, other cars don't expect slowing down that much for turns, staying that far behind other cars (which causes them to merge in front, then slam on brakes to slow for cars in front of them, which causes you to slow too fast and get penalized...) etc. I almost gave up on it because of all the situations that occurred which I would have no choice but to get demerits for based on other cars actions. For someone who drives a few miles a day keeping 98-99 for a month or two would be a lot easier, but when you are driving triple to quadruple the fleet average you are way more likely to be penalized through no fault of your own.

As far as FSDB, I've had no close calls. I totally agree with no tolerance for phone or screen use while driving (though it would be much easier if all the voice control/messaging system worked properly and if they put warning in larger text at the top of the screen near the speed instead of the bottom left, arguably the hardest place to look down to and take eyes off road, in small text, and I am not one to argue that Tesla should have more buttons and rely less on the screen, they just need to use it a bit better IMO). My argument with my strikes is just for more tolerance when sitting still and not driving when there is little to no risk. More of my argument is Tesla needs more direct user interaction. Issues range from serious (auto high beams blinding people, falso positive warning to take control vehicle departing lane when you are signally and manually changing lanes) to not so much serious (windshield auto cleaning dirty wi shield a just cleaning, perfectly clear windshield) and in between but they don't seem to get fixed - many of which not because they would be hard to fix but because info doesn't get to the right programmer/department etc.

The car, fellow motorist, pedestrians, and the entire FSD program is dependent on you to not F up. The car can do magical things but there are times that it does dumb stuff too and it’s reliant on you to keep it from doing anything so stupid that it kills someone. You were given 4 opportunities to figure out what is causing your strikes and perform corrective actions to prevent it from happening again but you were unable to do so. The suspension sucks for you but the party is all over for everyone as soon as that first accident happens. If an accident happens it’s not just the end of FSD beta, but probably the end of FSD as a viable thing for another 10 years as autonomous vehicle testing will get regulated to death.
I joined a month before they went from three strikes to 5, coincidentally I never had strikes when it was three strikes and there were apparently more false positives. One day I had three strikes, I remember them happening quick, and one of those I was guilty as I was moving about 5mph (albeit an empty road). I was lax there and shouldn't have been. I had 4 of 5 strikes for about two months now. This last strike was like a couple of the others, it appears and gives you the strike instantly, you have no chance to 'pay attention,' or manually disengage. I learned that situation where you are on a really long drive (like 18 miles but takes 1.5 hours cause lots of sitting still in traffic) causes the strikes, these situations where moving a few feet and very slow like 1-2 mph) are the times that got me.


It is also just a suspension, you might get it back after a few updates, or worst comes to worst you’d get it back when FSD is out of beta. A suspension in my view that is worth it if it means we don’t potentially get into a fatal accident involving FSD.
I don't see how I am going to get in a fatal accident going 0 to 1 mph. I've stated this several times. This is when my strikes occurred when I was sitting still and not moving, or coming out of sitting still for awhile then barely moving a foot or so further. Very low risk situation,.no pedestrians around and certainly no way for a fatal or damaging accident. I am all for instant strikes with no ability to pay attention or anything like that to make it go away. If you are driving in any other situation and are using your phone or distracted, that's fine. That's what the system should do. I am fine with being forced to use text messaging via voice and everything. In fact, that's how I have been doing it for years even before the Tesla on other cars, but when that system doesn't work right and causes more distractions instead of less, that needs to be fixed. Sure it wouldn't be a big deal if I were making short 5 minute trips. But when I'm stuck in the car sometimes for an hour and a half to 2 hours, it only driving 15 to 20 mi in that time because of traffic and most of the time sitting still or driving little to no speed, in a highway that it's bumper to bumper cars with no pedestrians and nothing tricky, I wish there should be some flexibility on how the system triggers attention in those extremely low risk situations.
 
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BTW agree with auto high beams and auto wipers. at least with the high beams, you can disable it (albeit every single time you engage FSDb). I'd rather see no auto wipers and just have FSDb drop down to AP (or turn off) if it can't see properly. It already does this on heavy rain days anyway.
I just confirmed that this is not the case for me. I am currently in the hybrid suspended state but the auto high beams are turning on automatically when I am on normal auto steer now. I can go into the settings when this happens and the icon for automatic high beams is turned off, yet they are still turning on, there is no way for me to turn this off. I remember the same thing happening in full self driving beta, it didn't matter if the icon was on or off in the settings they would automatically be turned on. I'm not sure how you were able to turn them off even if he had to do it every single time, it's not happening for me.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,984
9,987
Visalia, CA
...there is no way for me to turn this off...
Yes way!

At the start of the pure vision in any version of Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta, it was true that there was no way.

After a while with subsequent firmware, it has now allowed owners to override that mandatory Auto-High beam.

That means to start Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta, your mandatory Auto-High beam would be activated. We all agree on that. Let it automatically does its job. That's expected.

Now, the next part that was not possible before, but now has been possible is: override that mandatory Auto-High beam that's already turned on.

To do that, go to your left stalk. You can push that stalk away from you (that's not up or down for lane signals) which is toward the front of the car (and not toward you, not toward the rear of the car).

That manual action would turn on and turn off your High Beam. It will continue to keep your manual setting until there's another new session of Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta again.

In that case, you just have to re-override the Auto High Beam again.

Good luck!
 
Yes way!

At the start of the pure vision in any version of Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta, it was true that there was no way.

After a while with subsequent firmware, it has now allowed owners to override that mandatory Auto-High beam.

That means to start Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta, your mandatory Auto-High beam would be activated. We all agree on that. Let it automatically does its job. That's expected.

Now, the next part that was not possible before, but now has been possible is: override that mandatory Auto-High beam that's already turned on.

To do that, go to your left stalk. You can push that stalk away from you (that's not up or down for lane signals) which is toward the front of the car (and not toward you, not toward the rear of the car).

That manual action would turn on and turn off your High Beam. It will continue to keep your manual setting until there's another new session of Autopilot/FSD/FSD beta again.

In that case, you just have to re-override the Auto High Beam again.

Good luck!

Ok thanks for the info. Ill try that on my next drive, still a bit annoying it doesn't stay set, but at least a doable workaround. Did I miss this in a release note or is this just something that is going around, also when did this start (which version of FSDB), I only had my last update for 2 days before suspended and the previous update was a month before. This will help a lot with one of my two primary (I consider safety) concerns that I still am dealing with outside of FSDB (the other getting false positive 'take control immediately vehicle departing lane' warning when manually signally and changing lanes/exiting freeway).
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,984
9,987
Visalia, CA
...Did I miss this in a release note...
No. It's an Easter Egg and someone just discovered it after one of the updates
...is this just something that is going around (which version of FSDB) is this on?...
Mandatory Auto High Beam has never been imposed on working radar versions of Autopilot/FSD.

FSD beta disables radar, so the radar is not working. Newer cars are without radar installed so there's no radar to work with. These cars have Mandatory Auto High Beam.

Regardless if there's a radar or not, Mandatory or not, manual push away toward the front with your left stalk would toggle the High Beam on and off and the on or off setting would continue unless there's an intervening event.
 
No. It's an Easter Egg and someone just discovered it after one of the updates
Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if it is unintentional as well which is why its not in notes. I just tested, it works, what also seems to work is if you go to settings and the auto high beam will show 'off' even though the high beams are on, turn it to on, then turn it off and they turn off. This likely is the same action as using the stalk - obviously using the stalk is the safer way to do it.


Mandatory Auto High Beam has never been imposed on working radar versions of Autopilot/FSD.

FSD beta disables radar, so the radar is not working. Newer cars are without radar installed so there's no radar to work with. These cars have Mandatory Auto High Beam.

Regardless if there's a radar or not, Mandatory or not, manual push away toward the front with your left stalk would toggle the High Beam on and off and the on or off setting would continue unless there's an intervening event.

Got it. I can conclude that in the 'hybrid' suspended state I am in, even though my car has radar and I can't use FSDB anymore, it is still imposing them as if my car doesn't have radar etc because technically FSDB software is loaded, just disabled. If I cant have the features of FSD and have to put up with a worse performing car (autosteer etc with no radar on vs all the time it was on for my car before FSDB), I'd rather it just revert software, but at least I'll be able to deal with it.
 
I feel FSDB is too much stress. It always go to the wrong lane for no reason. Too much baby sitting required on local roads. I disabled it my self. Not using it anymore. I wish if they have a option for lane change confirmation on local roads.

I like it - yeah its not perfect - but going back to the 'basic' autosteer is really showing me how much its improved especially on basic things like auto lane changes etc. yes, its not even close to perfect and you really have to be hyper aware in situations where you know it will struggle, but after 4+ months thousands of miles logged on it a lot of its action are very predictable. Understanding when it does really good and when it does really bad becomes natural after awhile - therefore understanding when to engage it for 'stress free' driving and when to engage it to 'train it and send reports' becomes common logic - so if I wasn't in the mood to use it when I knew it would needs lots of disengagement I just wouldn't - but that wasn't often. Unfortunately for me, when it works best/is least likely to do something wrong and really makes things the most stress free for me (ie. stop and go traffic, waiting at stop lights with cars in front of you) is also when I was 'forcefully disengaged'.
 

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