SocalM3P
Member
been following this thread for a while. thanks for all the people running their independent "tests." whether they are scientifically accurate or not, it's entertaining nonetheless and keeps the conversation going.
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lightweight wheels model 3 performance 0-60 testing
- Thread starter Kaz93
- Start date
Hey guys, just a follow up. The Draggy came in early on my lunch. Car was charged to 55% and i did 5 runs just to see how to work the Draggy. It was harder than i thought to find a straight/level road that i wouldn't break the speed limit too bad haha. Anyways, i did 5 runs with the fastest posted here. The fastest was at 50% SoC. How does this fair at this SoC compared to others? The battery to my understanding was not that warm as it had been sitting in 50-degree weather for a while. Thoughts? I will start my testing on Wednesday...
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0-60 times are almost always identical from 100% SoC to the lower numbers around +/- 30%, as long as the battery temps and all other things are identical as well. It's once you get above 60mph, when the lower SoC causes significant slow down.
Thanks, I've seen this video! I wonder if anything has changed since then besides the obvious power increase. "Cold weather improvements" are a little vague.
Usually starts falling on its face right after 60mph, by 100mph, it feels like a honda. At least the older battery packs did, I am waiting until it warms back up before doing anything with the '21.
my 2021 feels like a Honda Insight at 100 mph now that you mentioned it.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
My '21P becomes quite noticeably slower below ~93% and dramatically slower below 80%. Maybe I'm watching the gauge too closely but I swear I can even feel a difference between 99% and 100%.
When it was new it performed like a U-Haul van below 20% and honestly couldn't even keep up with freeway traffic with the pedal held to the floor but the software update a few months ago vastly improved that to typical minivan levels.
So in my experience it seems that every single percent of SOC is significant - from forklift performance at 1% to supercar performance at 100%
from the first experience (U-Haul) to now, how much would you say it has improved? Last summer, i went down to San Diego and spent a couple days there where the temperature was sitting around 100. My car felt the fastest it ever had, currently living in Santa Barbara and my new car feels slower. I assume due to the cold weather though.
Think any modifications to power delivery could change this in the future with our current cars?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Lack of a lot of pull up top is mainly a result of a 1-speed transmission and a ~13k redline of the motors.
Model S Plaid solved this but keeping the 1-speed, but using advanced tech to let the motors spin to 20k so it still pulls like a freight train WELL north of 100 mph.
Model S Plaid solved this but keeping the 1-speed, but using advanced tech to let the motors spin to 20k so it still pulls like a freight train WELL north of 100 mph.
I wonder if this will be the trend for improved EV performance or if it is more economical to implement a 2-speed transmission in performance applications.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I expect if the 2 speeds made any sense Tesla would've done that for the Plaid.
Remember the original roadster had a 2-speed, something Tesla has not repeated since. Porsche has, and it still pales in performance compared to the Plaid.
Remember the original roadster had a 2-speed, something Tesla has not repeated since. Porsche has, and it still pales in performance compared to the Plaid.
I love the simplicity and predictability of the 1-speed transmission, I don't want to lose that. I hate automatics and my wife hates manuals. 1 speed Teslas are perfect for us to share. When we went down to 1 car for many years, Model S was the only car we could agree on. 
I guess if I lived in Germany with unlimited speed Autobahn sections, I would find the Taycan's 2 speed EV transmission worthwhile. But I prefer what Tesla's done with the new S (even the new LR pulls strong at higher speeds, right?) and I'd rather have a Plaid than any Taycan for the Autobahn / highway driving anyways.
I guess if I lived in Germany with unlimited speed Autobahn sections, I would find the Taycan's 2 speed EV transmission worthwhile. But I prefer what Tesla's done with the new S (even the new LR pulls strong at higher speeds, right?) and I'd rather have a Plaid than any Taycan for the Autobahn / highway driving anyways.
thesmokingman
Active Member
Can you explain this a bit more and your sources?
The Model 3P has a 18,500 RPM redline at the 162 MPH limited top speed (Tires 762 revs per mile, 9.0:1 motor to axle ratio).
The Earlier Model S has a 18,800 RPM redline at the 155 MPH limited top speed (Tires 751 revs per mile, 9.7:1 motor to axle ratio).
The new Model S has a 16,700 RPM redline at the 155 MPH limited top speed (Tires 721 revs per mile, 9.0:1 motor to axle ratio).
The Model S Plaid has a 14,600 RPM redline at the 162 MPH limited top speed (Tires 721 revs per mile, 7.5:1 motor to axle ratio).
If Tesla ever unlocks the 200 MPH max speed, the RPM would be.... 18,025. 500 RPM less than the Model 3P and 800 less than earlier S's.
At 100 MPH, a Model 3P is 11,400 RPM and a Plaid is 9,000 RPM.
Yes, Tesla talked about the magic of the carbon sleeve getting to 20K RPM, but the math doesn't lie for what they actually shipped. Tesla dropped the gear ratio from 9:1 to 7.5:1 and the Plaid runs LESS RPM than the other cars even at a higher top speed. Nobody ever seems to run the math, they just believe Tesla's breathless marketing.
None of this is surprising- It's easier to get torque out of an electric motor than RPM. As you increase RPM, you need more volts or more field weakening to keep your current (and thus torque) up. Tesla figured out how to make more torque, so they need less RPM. And yes, they did amazing things in keeping the torque flat over the RPM band, but part of that was REDUCING the max RPM, not increasing it.
Gear ratio sources- Tesla's owners Manuals (has tire sizes too):
2021 S/Plaid: Model S Owner's Manual | Tesla
Earlier S: Model S Owner's Manual | Tesla
Model 3: Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla
Assuming they will change it, they'll have to at some point. Making a complete assumption here, but I would assume it will be like the plaid where a combination of the controllers and the motors work together to provide better power management in the higher RPMs. A while back when I was researching how Tesla manipulates the power going to the motors, they can apparently control the motor torque by having the controller change the frequency of the power at different stages. Like say (no clue what the actual numbers are, these are just random) starting off at 60hz, and when it gets to 5000rpm changing to 100hz, and over 15,000rpm changing to 120hz or whatever it is. The frequency of the power apparently has a correlation with either the efficiency or the capacity a motor can operate with/on. Also, the plaid puts down substantially more power and a bit more range than the previous MSP, with less storage capacity. So it's definitely possible, but that's completely up to Tesla how or if it will ever happen.
But someone with an electrical engineering background would be best to explain that because I'm absolutely certain I don't understand everything and probably butchered this explanation.
To be clear, only a few of the very first roadsters (~30) had a two speed, and it was locked into 2nd gear, giving quite slow performance. They quickly moved to a one speed. This pretty famously delayed the program for a year or two.
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You kinda did
The very definition of controlling an AC motor is a variable frequency drive. All Teslas have to be able to control current and frequency, and not in quantized steps. You need to be able to go from 1372Hz to 1373 Hz as the car speeds up.The Plaid has a different motor- the carbon wrap is important but not for RPM reasons as everyone thinks. But as posted above, plaid runs LOWER RPM than other cars, not higher. You can't just keep your torque up at higher RPM's with software- you need new motor designs, and you need to focus on torque not RPM. At a minimum, this also means a new controller that can handle higher currents as well.
If Tesla really could increase performance with a software update, and they know how to do it due to learning it in the Plaid, you don't think they would have a $5000 OTA option?
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