Looks like they are removing stalks from the 3/Y

[jabloomf1230]

Wait so the current model 3 and Y currently do not come with gear shifter? That's terrible

It's just a rumor that upcoming refreshes of both models will lose both steering column stalks.

 

[Mayer]

Sonar and radar were removed to safe money and combat chip shortage. Highland Model 3 will have HW4 and a radar again.... While vision parking sensors are impressive there arent reliable enough imho. but then again parking sensors are nice but not really needed.

Parking sensors are fairly basic feature in modern vehicles. I guess vision parking will work better?
So no parking sensors, turn signal, or gear shifter?
What’s the upside to justify the price jump?

 

[Candleflame]

Parking sensors are fairly basic feature in modern vehicles. I guess vision parking will work better?
So no parking sensors, turn signal, or gear shifter?
What’s the upside to justify the price jump?

i cant see how vision will work better.
Parking sensors ARE basic but they dont make much difference. People are just too lazy to look over their shoulder.
Not saying the car shouldnt come without them but for me its not the most important thing.

vision parking is aweful. Also elon promised birdseye view which everyone thought was camera mediated but its actually vector graphics on the AP view which just.... isnt good/trustworthy enough unfortunately. and also resolution not good enough to back into tight parking spots.

 

[DayTrippin]

My 2021 MSLR was totaled last week.
Build date was 2020 so it came standard with a steering wheel, turn signals, and gear shifter.
I knew about the yoke steering wheel in the post-2021 models but had no idea the turn signal and gear shifter was removed too.
Thankfully I looked here before buying new because I noted the option on Tesla.com to choose a steering wheel on a 2023 model but had no idea the stalks for the turn signal and gear shifter were gone. That is not advertised/disclosed on Tesla.com.
After reading through this post I bought a 2020 pre-owned off Tesla.com and await delivery.

But after reading a link last night posted by a member here about the software updates on the 2023 models, I wonder if I’ll regret that decision.

For instance, do new Tesla’s have a better Autopilot system and/or safety/crash prevention system or is the newer model just geared more for the greatly anticipated autonomous driving carrot that’s been dangled for so long?

In other words, is the big advantage on the new and much more expensive models X & S based exclusively upon the hope that fully autonomous driving will be here within a year or so?

Is there any other advantage or benefit to the 2023 models over the 2020/2021 models?

I was also confused about Tesla, removing Sonar or radar, which seems like a bigger problem than removing the stalks.

Maybe there’s a thread on this issue already?

IF cost isn't an issue, go with the newer model. The refreshed cars are vastly superior to the pre-refresh, especially if performance matters to you. If you don't like the yoke, lots of wheel options and a factory one. I do hate the lack of stalks but I have to do a ton of 3 or 6 point turns where I live. That makes it more of an issue for me than many. The other issue I have is pulling out into blind intersections, the lack of stalks, or a gearshift you can do totally by feel, without looking, is a big issue as well.

The new LR is a great car. With all the current discounts, and free supercharging for I think 3 years, it is an even better deal. The new screen is far better than the old one.

This is a nice add on for the front even if you have USS (parking sensors). Even handier if you don't. It is a wireless backup cam but great to use up front.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095BW51SR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Mayer]

i cant see how vision will work better.
Parking sensors ARE basic but they dont make much difference. People are just too lazy to look over their shoulder.
Not saying the car shouldnt come without them but for me its not the most important thing.

vision parking is aweful. Also elon promised birdseye view which everyone thought was camera mediated but its actually vector graphics on the AP view which just.... isnt good/trustworthy enough unfortunately. and also resolution not good enough to back into tight parking spots.

I just don’t understand the upside to justify the price jump for the new models.

I paid $65k for 2020 MSLR w/ 18k miles.
It has everything removed from 2023 model.
Why would anyone pay $90k for 2023 model with so much removed?

What is justifying the price increase other than a better video game screen?

 

[Candleflame]

I just don’t understand the upside to justify the price jump for the new models.

I paid $65k for 2020 MSLR w/ 18k miles.
It has everything removed from 2023 model.
Why would anyone pay $90k for 2023 model with so much removed?

What is justifying the price increase other than a better video game screen?

dont know about usa prices but i thought in usa model 3s are now cheaper?
certainly in aus model 3 is cheaper than what it was. at least in the expensive trims. like when the performance came out it was 105k AUD and now its 90k AUD... (aud = cad roughly)

 

[jjrandorin]

dont know about usa prices but i thought in usa model 3s are now cheaper?
certainly in aus model 3 is cheaper than what it was. at least in the expensive trims. like when the performance came out it was 105k AUD and now its 90k AUD... (aud = cad roughly)

The person you are replying to seems to either not realize, or is ignoring the fact that this is the model 3 subforum, thus any pricing etc they are talking about model S in this thread, in this subforum, is not relevant at all.

 

[Candleflame]

The person you are replying to seems to either not realize, or is ignoring the fact that this is the model 3 subforum, thus any pricing etc they are talking about model S in this thread, in this subforum, is not relevant at all.

ohh haha my eyes didnt even take that in.

 

[Mayer]

I just don’t understand the upside to justify the price jump for the new models.

I paid $65k for 2020 MSLR w/ 18k miles.
It has everything removed from 2023 model.
Why would anyone pay $90k for 2023 model with so much removed?

What is justifying the price increase other than a better video game screen?

I see I jumped on a thread for the 3 and talked about the S, but still don’t get the new pricing with deletion of standard equipment regardless of model

 

[Mayer]

The person you are replying to seems to either not realize, or is ignoring the fact that this is the model 3 subforum, thus any pricing etc they are talking about model S in this thread, in this subforum, is not relevant at all.

Right. New to forum and still trying to navigate. My bad.

 

[DayTrippin]

I just don’t understand the upside to justify the price jump for the new models.

I paid $65k for 2020 MSLR w/ 18k miles.
It has everything removed from 2023 model.
Why would anyone pay $90k for 2023 model with so much removed?

What is justifying the price increase other than a better video game screen?

Vastly better car. The new LR has a lot more power. More efficient. Full bumper to bumper warranty. For me the 30k (likely less given current discounts) and 3 years of super charging. A lot of other improvements have been made over the years. The new matrix headlights are definitely better than the last gen ones or even the ones that came with the 2021+ refreshed cars.

Here is a list of change for the S which covers most of the changes.

Tesla Model S history of changes by year

Tesla Model S history of changes by year, we list all the hardware changes and major updates

tesla-info.com

 

[Mayer]

Vastly better car. The new LR has a lot more power. More efficient. Full bumper to bumper warranty. For me the 30k (likely less given current discounts) and 3 years of super charging. A lot of other improvements have been made over the years. The new matrix headlights are definitely better than the last gen ones or even the ones that came with the 2021+ refreshed cars.

Here is a list of change for the S which covers most of the changes.

Tesla Model S history of changes by year

Tesla Model S history of changes by year, we list all the hardware changes and major updates

tesla-info.com

Thank you

 

[DayTrippin]

The link I posted also has the change for all models if you change the filtering.

 

[Michael24]

Wait so the current model 3 and Y currently do not come with gear shifter? That's terrible

The current one still has stalks for gear shifter and signals. The refresh, highly possible they’ll remove it.

 

[Michael24]

My 2021 MSLR was totaled last week.
Build date was 2020 so it came standard with a steering wheel, turn signals, and gear shifter.
I knew about the yoke steering wheel in the post-2021 models but had no idea the turn signal and gear shifter was removed too.
Thankfully I looked here before buying new because I noted the option on Tesla.com to choose a steering wheel on a 2023 model but had no idea the stalks for the turn signal and gear shifter were gone. That is not advertised/disclosed on Tesla.com.
After reading through this post I bought a 2020 pre-owned off Tesla.com and await delivery.

But after reading a link last night posted by a member here about the software updates on the 2023 models, I wonder if I’ll regret that decision.

For instance, do new Tesla’s have a better Autopilot system and/or safety/crash prevention system or is the newer model just geared more for the greatly anticipated autonomous driving carrot that’s been dangled for so long?

In other words, is the big advantage on the new and much more expensive models X & S based exclusively upon the hope that fully autonomous driving will be here within a year or so?

Is there any other advantage or benefit to the 2023 models over the 2020/2021 models?

I was also confused about Tesla, removing Sonar or radar, which seems like a bigger problem than removing the stalks.

Maybe there’s a thread on this issue already

My 2021 MSLR was totaled last week.
Build date was 2020 so it came standard with a steering wheel, turn signals, and gear shifter.
I knew about the yoke steering wheel in the post-2021 models but had no idea the turn signal and gear shifter was removed too.
Thankfully I looked here before buying new because I noted the option on Tesla.com to choose a steering wheel on a 2023 model but had no idea the stalks for the turn signal and gear shifter were gone. That is not advertised/disclosed on Tesla.com.
After reading through this post I bought a 2020 pre-owned off Tesla.com and await delivery.

But after reading a link last night posted by a member here about the software updates on the 2023 models, I wonder if I’ll regret that decision.

For instance, do new Tesla’s have a better Autopilot system and/or safety/crash prevention system or is the newer model just geared more for the greatly anticipated autonomous driving carrot that’s been dangled for so long?

In other words, is the big advantage on the new and much more expensive models X & S based exclusively upon the hope that fully autonomous driving will be here within a year or so?

Is there any other advantage or benefit to the 2023 models over the 2020/2021 models?

I was also confused about Tesla, removing Sonar or radar, which seems like a bigger problem than removing the stalks.

Maybe there’s a thread on this issue already?

This might not be the best thread to answer this, but you can find out more at model S forum. But to make it short, 2023 is just newer. And without the turn signal stalks, it’s quite challenging for me. I’m on my 2nd week and I keep missing the turn signals. Gear shifting stalk , you can forget about it in a day.

 

[3sr+buyer]

That's not surprising. Many cars have the gear shift on the console between the driver's seat and the front passenger's seat. When Tesla put the shifter on the stalk, it also must have been considered a "radical" departure from the norm.

Actually, the right stalk for the PRND control might be seen as a throwback which was once much more common, particularly with bench front seats. They did become less common and eventually non-existent with manual transmissions ("three on the tree") before declining in popularity with automatic transmissions (as front bench seats also declined in popularity).

But some recent Mercedes-Benz cars still use this type of shifter.

 

[Candleflame]

Actually, the right stalk for the PRND control might be seen as a throwback which was once much more common, particularly with bench front seats. They did become less common and eventually non-existent with manual transmissions ("three on the tree") before declining in popularity with automatic transmissions.

But some recent Mercedes-Benz cars still use this type of shifter.

was only really common on USA cars which often had an auto transmission.
I mean it makes sense that in Europe they would all have a centre shifter - most of the automatics were all retrofitted manual cars so it made sense to use the centre console.
Tbh not sure what the mercedes manuals did. Probably just had a cutout in the centre console. Mercedes always had more autos than other manufactures in europe too. I only saw 2 automatics until I was in my mid teens and they were both mercedes.

the german trabi/trabant actually had a manual transmission mounted to the steering wheel though! Apparently shiting behavour was the same as with a standard centre stick.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Parking sensors are fairly basic feature in modern vehicles. I guess vision parking will work better?

Vision parking assist would work better if they added a nose camera. That would also allow for a top down parking view.

Right now, vision parking assist has a blind spot below the hood line directly in front of the car, because there is no nose camera.

 

[3sr+buyer]

the german trabi/trabant actually had a manual transmission mounted to the steering wheel though! Apparently shiting behavour was the same as with a standard centre stick.

Column shift manual transmission were once common in the US, but disappeared in the 1970s or so. Image below shows a "three on the tree" shifter. (Was the Trabant's shifter that awful to shift?)

 

[jabloomf1230]

Actually, the right stalk for the PRND control might be seen as a throwback which was once much more common, particularly with bench front seats. They did become less common and eventually non-existent with manual transmissions ("three on the tree") before declining in popularity with automatic transmissions (as front bench seats also declined in popularity).

But some recent Mercedes-Benz cars still use this type of shifter.

I guess that the point is that gear shifting locations and type and changed back and forth and the world as we know it didn't end. Cars also had push button transmission shifters:

https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-motor-citys-push-button-age/