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Rumour: Model 3/Y to lose stalks in 2023 model year

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Inb4 UK specific edition of the wheel with L and R decals instead of arrows.

Even better labels still require the driver to look at the wheel then take one hand off and touch a variable and potentially moving "button" on the center of the wheel.

Nothing about it makes sense. It's certainly not an improvement in user experience or safety in any way.

It can’t be cost savings given that they’ve added a colour touch screen in the rear passenger area.

Perhaps the reason to remove stalks is still cost savings though. Maybe the technoking sees value in the rear screen, but not in the stalks. Maybe removing the stalks provides enough cost savings to afford that rear screen. Or perhaps the "Model 2" won't have stalks OR a rear screen.

Even if I somehow "got used to" stalkless (which I have no intention of doing), that wouldn't be enough. Stalkless would have to be easy and intuitive for the following:
  • Myself, today.
  • My older self when my mental faculties are not so sharp.
  • My wife, today.
  • My wife when she's older and her mental faculties are not so sharp.
  • My children when they're old enough to drive.
  • Anyone else who drives the car throughout my ownership.
The chances that none of those drives will have a major problem with stalkless is ZERO.

Today, you can rent a car from a manufacturer you've never owned and *generally* the turn signals and gear selection is intuitive and consistent enough to not cause a problem. People driving a stalkless Tesla for the first time are going to have difficulties with it, and "not using turn signals" is not a solution.

I applaud Tesla for being an industry disrupter, but I suspect they make a lot of these decisions on Elon's whim. He probably took a stalkless prototype on a 2 mile test drive, made a few lane changes, made a few turns, said "it's good", and then they put it into production... same with the yoke. Bad decision.

I put the yoke, removal of stalks, and buying Twitter into Elon's "bag of failures". He's done a lot of other good, but those things (among others) were definitely bad.
 
How did that work out when the Japanese cars started arrving here with Wiper / Indciator stalks on opposite sides?

I remember periods of time when we had one-Japanese and one-Non-Japanese, and each time Wife and I switched we'd be wipers-on when turning right ...

Didn't stop us buying them though ...

I think that illustrates a significant problem. Anyone who will have a stalk-less Tesla, and also another non-Tesla, will have a lot of difficulty when switching cars. Someone driving only-Tesla will perhaps develop the muscle memory.
Being a cynic what I think will just happen is that people will grit their teeth and still buy them, and simply not bother indicating on roundabouts at all, or at least not to come off at an exit. People would surely not care about others than they would put themselves out by buying a “lesser” car.

I’d like to think people would be principled on driving standards, but experience suggests many don’t already indicate where they should, and were taught, so this issue of finding the indicator on upside down steering wheels will be something they simply don’t try and deal with.
 
I believe - and quite genuinely that the removal of so many things has only been about cost savings - or in business terms Value Engineering.

My view is that cars evolve, Its a fact cars of today are a lot heavier and fatter because of additional kit fitted. Just go back a few years - air con was never fitted, nor, auto wipers, central locking, electric windows. seat belts, ABS etc - now they are all standard equipment, and indeed people advertised their cars with these features mentioned just to emphasise the point their car had them, however, as time progressed and every car had those features people just expected them - and people listing cars for sale didn't specifically mention them anymore - but they did mention the latest gadget fitted like adaptive cruise, Sat Nav, etc.
There is an expectation that new cars get more equipment than their predecessors and retain all the previous stuff with another expectation the original stuff is also upgraded to the latest standards - its the way its always been.

It is without any doubt that without Tesla the EV revolution just wouldn't have happened - nor would the development of Hybrids or even cleaner ICE technology as there was no pressure to do so.
Tesla upset the Apple Cart - they proved a battery EV can perform, travel a long way between charges, Carry 5 people and a big boot - and do it all quietly and more reliably - and at a fraction of the running costs, plus all the features people expected were included but implemented in a way that looked futuristic with essentially a computer touch screen controlling everything.
Tesla had no legacy ICE to maintain or a platform that needed to be adapted to suit a BEV and Elon invested his last $100 million into Tesla and Space X, slept on the production line and almost went bust a few times.
The Tesla captured the hearts of people and the company had a goal to produce the very best fully equipped cars they could - and we all know there were lots of production Issues, paint and panels gaps and we forgave them because they were a tech company producing cars, but we knew they would address the issues - and they did.

I believe that focus and drive has now been diverted to cost savings per vehicle, since late 2019 when they first removed the LED lights in the door card pockets there has been a ramping up of parts they felt they could remove and people either wouldn't notice or wouldn't be too bothered about - so Tesla sort of offset the list of items removed by adding something - which diverted peoples attention.
Late 2020 - removed the passenger side lumber support, removed the chrome, replaced the centre console with an inferior item, removed the soft feel door cards on the lower section but retained the soft feel on the top part - so that wouldn't alert people to the fact they had Fiesta quality door cards and those that paid an extra £1K for a white interior they removed the white inset panel on the door cards - the diversions were the additions they sold to people as fabulous and a big upgrade - so the heated steering wheel, Satin black trim, laminated front windows.

That strategy has continued, each new really nice addition has been paid for by the loss of something else - perhaps Its just me but I want all the other stuff and the new nice to have stuff too - I want more on my new car - not a trade off with parts.
The new rear passenger screen thing - yes nice - but a screen these days are peanuts and that was more than paid for just by getting rid of the rear seats centre armrest with the adjustable head restraint - which is now just a plank of plastic, covered in fabric with a moulded in head restraint - and a compromised rear view through the internal mirror.

Elon said the passenger lumber support was removed because most people adjusted it and never used it again and whilst that might be true then why do the front seats have electric motors - most people set their driving position and that's the way it stays, Few cars are driven on a daily basis with rear seat passengers, most cars just have the driver in them, so why heat the rear seats or fit that screen?

If cars were only fitted with items that were necessary or used regularly then most stuff we are used to would be removed, I mean who ever uses the puddle lights when exiting to look at the ground to see if there is something you shouldn't step into,

Currently Tesla still produce the very best EV as a package - that includes its charging network, When I buy a car I want to feel special, I want "Wow" I want gadgets and gizmo's, I want something that pleases the little kid in me.

I really don't like the direction of travel Tesla is heading - I detest the dishonesty in relation to screwing people last Christmas and I'm not at all happy with Elon's relationship with Putin - re Starlink and Ukraine - so my Tesla will be the only Tesla I will ever have, for me its become a tarnished brand and Elon needs to resign.
 
Today, you can rent a car from a manufacturer you've never owned and *generally* the turn signals and gear selection is intuitive and consistent enough to not cause a problem. People driving a stalkless Tesla for the first time are going to have difficulties with it, and "not using turn signals" is not a solution.

The best innovations that benefitted everyone were when manufacturers settled on the basic pedal layout and the H pattern gear change. If you learned on one car you could drive anything without retraining. It's been so well established that we barely think about jumping into a different car and how valuable this consistency actually is ... until we are pulled up short by the non-standard thing that was never agreed ... so we drive along happily until we need to find reverse! Do we pull the lever up or push it down or move it away and back or pull it towards you and forward or move the lever (in one of 4 different directions) whilst simultaneously lifting a separate moveable ring/cover of the gear stick. Fortunately the only time you need to engage reverse is when the car is stopped ... so you have time to fish around whilst looking like an idiot and you swear at whoever designed the thing. Changing the essential driving controls is a big deal.
 
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Fortunately the only time you need to engage reverse is when the car is stopped ... so you have time to fish around whilst looking like an idiot and you swear at whoever designed the thing.

True... *unless* you're doing a 3-point turn in traffic. That generally *shouldn't* be dangerous, only a nuisance... but these days with so many people looking at their phones while driving, I can imagine a scenario where not being to reverse quickly could be dangerous.

The turn signals are a bigger concern to me than gear selection, however either one of them being removed from stalks seems like a big downgrade. I just don't see why this would be something to do.

Remove some speakers. Remove the front seat controls in favor of touchscreen. Remove those cheap carpeted mats that the car comes with. Remove half the cameras (because they won't help to achieve FSD)... but gear and signal stalks? Removing those should not have even been considered.
 
Elon invested his last $100 million into Tesla and Space X, slept on the production line and almost went bust a few times.
This... People don't realise how close tesla came to going bankrupt and Elon put his last dime on the line. Tesla was a battery company. He turned it into a car company. Toyata had no plans to change up the prius as that was a huge cash cow for them.
No current manufacture could really innovote with the legacy baggage they all carry.
So yeh I'm glad it is what it is and what tesla has done for evs. It's insanely cheaper for me to run a model y compared to my ice cars iv had.

I personally won't be happy about no stalks, I'm already not a fan of the way stalks are implemented currently.
I was also peed when apple got rid of the headphone jack. But then I embraced wireless in ear headphones and havent looked back.
We as consumers and users adapt. We move on with life because there's other stuff always happening in life that puts things in perspective.


Here are some really cool podcasts to get into.

Land of the giants. The Tesla shock wave


Business Wars, Tesla vs Detroit

Business wars is epic BTW..

 
Ain’t that the truth. Tell any US S/X owner who bought before the recent up to $40k price cuts that their car has been “insanely cheaper” to run.

Even the few people who bought a LHD S/X here in the UK have lost ~£10k overnight.
 
Only if you ignore depreciation over the last 18 months.
If you want to see depreciation take a look at how badly the value of range rovers and ronge rover sports used, has tanked. Most insurance providers won't insure them now including land rover themselves. As they are so super easy to steel. (coming from RR/RRS world).
. My model Y new (picked up last week) is without the USS and I thought the ones that had USS could be holding their values on the used market but iv been reading that USS has been getting turned off for some users. Which sucks.
I wonder if the no stalks will be enough for someone to stick to the current gen cars over the new ones. Maybe for some perhaps even for the coming year which might help with the used car value..
 
iv been reading that USS has been getting turned off for some users. Which sucks.
You've been reading rubbish, no one has had their USS turned off.
I don’t know if I will miss stalks or not as I’ve never tried one...but if I was buying a Highland today I would be excited that I no longer have to put it in gear
I suspect that "excitement" (if you could call it that) would very quickly turn into frustration or rage
 
You've been reading rubbish, no one has had their USS turned off.

I suspect that "excitement" (if you could call it that) would very quickly turn into frustration or rage
When you tell people that with a Tesla all you have to do it point and go...they are amazed...but when you explain in detail that you just put into gear and go..they can’t see the difference between a Tesla and their ice
 
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Most likely tested on a long stretch of road with no roundabouts 😂
same one they tested the yoke on.

Here is a picture of Tesla's Test track

1694367568724.png


Apparently after thorough testing they found no issues with the indicators or the yoke. And FSD has now been signed off as 100% reliable 🤣