M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?

[raptor5244]

Did the Model 3 not yet have drift/track mode when you had it?

It had Track Mode. The one thing I didn't like about it is that you can't switch to it on the fly while driving. You need to put it in park, press the brake and then select it in the options. It will would also spin up the cooling system and make a bunch of noise. What the MP3 needs is a Sport Mode, where you can tune the throttle mapping, set 100% power to the rear and relax the nannies. I actually pref the driving dynamics of the RWD M3 SR+ vs the M3P. It handles more like a mid engine car without that 400lb motor up front.

 

[jackmott]

It had Track Mode. The one thing I didn't like about it is that you can't switch to it on the fly while driving. You need to put it in park, press the brake and then select it in the options. It will would also spin up the cooling system and make a bunch of noise. What the MP3 needs is a Sport Mode, where you can tune the throttle mapping, set 100% power to the rear and relax the nannies. I actually pref the driving dynamics of the RWD M3 SR+ vs the M3P. It handles more like a mid engine car without that 400lb motor up front.

It would be nice if one day they had a higher horsepower RWD option with an LSD or something. But when they can barely build enough I expect fringe models for enthusiasts aren't coming any time soon. However we can hope that the 4680 cells will at least drop a couple hundred pounds off the cars, that would be great.

 

[raptor5244]

It would be nice if one day they had a higher horsepower RWD option with an LSD or something. But when they can barely build enough I expect fringe models for enthusiasts aren't coming any time soon. However we can hope that the 4680 cells will at least drop a couple hundred pounds off the cars, that would be great.

Agreed. Tesla is so busy meeting general demand, the enthusiasts models will be on the backlog for the foreseeable future. This is where some of the other manufacturers can try capture some of the market. I think this is what Dodge is going to try to do. They say they are not selling EVs, they are selling eMusclecars. Same thing, but I think it is smart if they want to try and maintain their existing customer base and make EVs more exciting.

 

[tm1v2]

It had Track Mode. The one thing I didn't like about it is that you can't switch to it on the fly while driving. You need to put it in park, press the brake and then select it in the options. It will would also spin up the cooling system and make a bunch of noise. What the MP3 needs is a Sport Mode, where you can tune the throttle mapping, set 100% power to the rear and relax the nannies. I actually pref the driving dynamics of the RWD M3 SR+ vs the M3P. It handles more like a mid engine car without that 400lb motor up front.

Yes this! I really wish I could adjust the AWD torque split and turn down/off the nannies without having to do the disruptive Track Mode entry procedure.

On my last sporty AWD car (not a true sports car), I could adjust center diff lockup and disable the nannies any time I wanted.

Personally I really like having AWD, but I acknowledge the handling benefit of single motor RWD. I too can feel the difference, when comparing single motor S to dual motor S. I'm sure I could feel the difference for the 3 as well if I drove a single motor one again.

 

[tm1v2]

Yes this! I really wish I could adjust the AWD torque split and turn down/off the nannies without having to do the disruptive Track Mode entry procedure.

On my last sporty AWD car (not a true sports car), I could adjust center diff lockup and disable the nannies any time I wanted.

Personally I really like having AWD, but I acknowledge the handling benefit of single motor RWD. I too can feel the difference, when comparing single motor S to dual motor S. I'm sure I could feel the difference for the 3 as well if I drove a single motor one again.

I'm still grateful for Track Mode v2 of course, it's a big part of why I bought this car.

 

[jackmott]

I'm still grateful for Track Mode v2 of course, it's a big part of why I bought this car.

Yeah I realize its stupid but if the SR+ had track mode I might have gotten that instead. heh.

 

[dfwatt]

It had Track Mode. The one thing I didn't like about it is that you can't switch to it on the fly while driving. You need to put it in park, press the brake and then select it in the options. It will would also spin up the cooling system and make a bunch of noise. What the MP3 needs is a Sport Mode, where you can tune the throttle mapping, set 100% power to the rear and relax the nannies. I actually pref the driving dynamics of the RWD M3 SR+ vs the M3P. It handles more like a mid engine car without that 400lb motor up front.

I assume you are using hyperbole to make a point. The front induction motor in the model 3 because it uses induction is actually very light something like 75 lb.

 

[dfwatt]

Of the cars OP listed the only one I consider a "true sports car" is the vette. BMW M3s etc are "sporty" but they are sedans, they are all vastly higher CG and compromised in various ways compared to things like miatas and corvettes, and the Tesla Model 3 is no different. It is a big, tall boy. I've owned a lot of sporty cars, a modified BMW 3 series I seriously campaigned in SOLO2 autocrss DSP class, WRX, C5 z06 Corvette, Toyota MR-S (perhaps my favorite overall!). The model 3 performance in stock form feels about like a BMW 3 series with tires that are a bit too small. Which is because its about like a 3 series with tires that are a bit too small

I've never been that sensitive to dampening/feel subtleties, and a lot of times those "feel" issues are easily fixed with alignment and tire/tire pressure tweaks anyway. If you did nothing but put some bigger wheels and ~265mm nperformance tires on the car it is going to do really well. Maybe some camber arms for the rear and control arms for the front so you can dial in a little more. Car feels great to me in stock form so I'm just going to leave it alone and enjoy the efficiency unless I want to autocross it competitively. Being able to slide around a little bit without doubling the speed limit is more fun anyway.

All good ideas but I'm surprised you don't mention the mountain pass lower front control arm bushing replacement. Makes the biggest subjective difference and also because it prevents camber change and toe change under heavy cornering loads it probably makes some difference in terms of absolute chassis limits. But from a subjective feedback point of view it takes the steering from okay to great. As Jesse at mountain pass says, it makes the steering "almost telepathic". In terms of bang for your buck I think it's number one if you're interested in improving the handling even over their really great coilover kits.

 

[jackmott]

I assume you are using hyperbole to make a point. The front induction motor in the model 3 because it uses induction is actually very light something like 75 lb.

I imagine the motor + gears/differential/half shafts add up to quite a bit more than 75lbs right?

 

[jackmott]

All good ideas but I'm surprised you don't mention the mountain pass lower front control arm bushing replacement. Makes the biggest subjective difference and also because it prevents camber change and toe change under heavy cornering loads it probably makes some difference in terms of absolute chassis limits. But from a subjective feedback point of view it takes the steering from okay to great. As Jesse at mountain pass says, it makes the steering "almost telepathic". In terms of bang for your buck I think it's number one if you're interested in improving the handling even over their really great coilover kits.

Good to know, I've been curious which of their offerings have the most impact. Too bad that one involves a press! But I've dealt with that before.

 

[drpheta]

The M3P is still somewhat new to me so that may contribute to why I find it so fun to drive. The Cts-V had to be on Mickey Thompson drag radials street ss tires to put the power down in second gear and up. That being said I sacrificed cornering/handling performance. Between slamming gears and putting the power down it made for a great driving experience during half mile runs at the airstrip, on ramps and rural roads. But straight line driving got old. I’ve been driving a manual transmission performance of some variant for the last 15 years and I’m kind of over it. I must be getting old I guess. Also with the sound of the V, I couldn’t go wide open throttle without pulling attention. Anytime I went throttle wide open, I would have to look over my shoulder to make sure a cop didn’t hear me. And it’s not like I had to break the speed limit. Just flat footing the gas pedal to get to the speed limit got me a wreck less driving ticket once. I was running long tube headers to stock mufflers, it wasn’t too aggressive of an exhaust system but loud enough to be heard. The M3P allows me to drive how I want when I want. Also I feel that the performance of the M3P is hard to beat when solely comparing it stock performance cars for the price. I hope to graduate to a plaid one day.

The latest generation of Zl1’s and z06’s (c7 and c8)are very nice but but I feel that modification would be necessary for me and once I start down that road, the world of give and takes approaches fast. Having been there done that, I’m happy with Tesla at the moment. Maybe one day I’ll go back.

I'll say that throwing on a set of proper coilovers transforms the M3P into a completely different car. It's incredible how much more fun it is with legit setup.

If they made a M3Plaid edition, it'd be the ultimate fun car, IMO.

 

[tm1v2]

I'll say that throwing on a set of proper coilovers transforms the M3P into a completely different car. It's incredible how much more fun it is with legit setup.

Every time I read stuff like this I get even more excited for my coilovers to arrive. ETA this month. Can. Not. Wait. Much. Longer!

 

[dfwatt]

I imagine the motor + gears/differential/half shafts add up to quite a bit more than 75lbs right?

Yes all that stuff together is probably over a hundred pounds but that's still nothing compared to a front transmission and engine which easily can go for 400 to 500 lb. Then there's the problem of the additional parasitic losses involved in the 90-degree translation of torque which is part of why Tesla's appear to accelerate better than their power to weight ratio would suggest. They have less parasitic loss in the drivetrain so more of the power is actually available at the wheel which is why wheel horsepower on Tesla's is so close to rated which is never seen in a conventional drivetrain

 

[tm1v2]

Yes all that stuff together is probably over a hundred pounds but that's still nothing compared to a front transmission and engine which easily can go for 400 to 500 lb. Then there's the problem of the additional parasitic losses involved in the 90-degree translation of torque which is part of why Tesla's appear to accelerate better than their power to weight ratio would suggest. They have less parasitic loss in the drivetrain so more of the power is actually available at the wheel which is why wheel horsepower on Tesla's is so close to rated which is never seen in a conventional drivetrain

The way a Tesla just rolls and rolls and rolls so smoothly with barely any hint of friction was really eye opening when I got my first one! Makes sense that it also benefits power at the wheels.

My last ICE car had fulltime AWD with 3 limited slip diffs. Traction was fantastic but let's not even go there about efficiency...

 

[raptor5244]

I assume you are using hyperbole to make a point. The front induction motor in the model 3 because it uses induction is actually very light something like 75 lb.

Yeah, I am exaggerating that all that weight is over the nose but there is a 400lb difference between an SR+ and M3P and you can feel it there is a lot more to chuck around.

 

[dfwatt]

Yeah, I am exaggerating that all that weight is over the nose but there is a 400lb difference between an SR+ and M3P and you can feel it there is a lot more to chuck around.

Actually the weight difference between the performance model and the long-range rear wheel drive is about 250 pounds. So the greater difference with those other models is just battery weight not front motor and transaxle. But yes you can tell the difference. You can mitigate that with coilovers wider tires and the MPP lower control arm bushing swap out

 

[buffington]

Not a sports car, but I was driving a not-very-stock 2006 STI since 2006 before getting my M3LR this year. The STI has been modified over the years and is without question a fast and nimble car on the track, or anywhere. I've not dyno'd it in a while, but several years ago I went on a "HP" quest/obsession and upgraded the turbo, radiator, intercooler, exhaust, injectors, and ECU (and tons of non-engine stuff too). With a conservative tune it was pushing past 450HP at the axles. I could have squeezed out more, but this was also my daily driver and I didn't want it exploding.

The M3LR is such a different car. The acceleration, even without the $2k upgrade, is incredible by comparison. The STI was no slouch, but getting it to do its theoretical maximum acceleration of about 4.2 seconds took a lot of work and practice, and despite my best efforts, suffered from turbo lag and terrible shifting (my fault). So even if the STI and M3LR have identical 0-60 times, it feels much faster in the M3. The STI feels like a wrestling match. The M3 feels effortless. The STI going that fast is partly luck. The M3 going that fast is a sure thing.

I'm guessing the STI might beat it on a smaller track with few straights, but it'd be close. I'm sure the STI weighing 3,400lbs doesn't hurt. But the STI is loud, exhausting to drive, and always feels like it's ready to catch fire. An hour of driving in the STI feels like running a 5k.

The M3LR is comfortable, smooth, and can warm my butt while it beats the STI's 0-60 and quarter mile times easily. It's also quiet, which makes it easier to ask my passengers if they're enjoying the acceleration.

I sort of hate the M3LR for making me realize that the STI I'd put so much effort into isn't that appealing to drive now. Nor is the idea of filling its 10g tank so it can gulp fuel at 12mpg.

 

[oreobbq]

I got bored with it and traded the M3P for a Camaro ZL1 before they stop making them and then plan to get in line for a Z06 before they stop making them as well.

I mean for the fun factor and drama I'd take the new c8 z06 over an M3P. That v8 looks incredible.

 

[raptor5244]

I mean for the fun factor and drama I'd take the new c8 z06 over an M3P. That v8 looks incredible.

You and me both but it will probably be 2 years on a waiting list to get one. My guess is MSRP for a 1LZ will be $85-90k but dealer markup on that car could be $30-$50k for a while.

 

[raptor5244]

Not a sports car, but I was driving a not-very-stock 2006 STI since 2006 before getting my M3LR this year. The STI has been modified over the years and is without question a fast and nimble car on the track, or anywhere. I've not dyno'd it in a while, but several years ago I went on a "HP" quest/obsession and upgraded the turbo, radiator, intercooler, exhaust, injectors, and ECU (and tons of non-engine stuff too). With a conservative tune it was pushing past 450HP at the axles. I could have squeezed out more, but this was also my daily driver and I didn't want it exploding.

The M3LR is such a different car. The acceleration, even without the $2k upgrade, is incredible by comparison. The STI was no slouch, but getting it to do its theoretical maximum acceleration of about 4.2 seconds took a lot of work and practice, and despite my best efforts, suffered from turbo lag and terrible shifting (my fault). So even if the STI and M3LR have identical 0-60 times, it feels much faster in the M3. The STI feels like a wrestling match. The M3 feels effortless. The STI going that fast is partly luck. The M3 going that fast is a sure thing.

I'm guessing the STI might beat it on a smaller track with few straights, but it'd be close. I'm sure the STI weighing 3,400lbs doesn't hurt. But the STI is loud, exhausting to drive, and always feels like it's ready to catch fire. An hour of driving in the STI feels like running a 5k.

The M3LR is comfortable, smooth, and can warm my butt while it beats the STI's 0-60 and quarter mile times easily. It's also quiet, which makes it easier to ask my passengers if they're enjoying the acceleration.

I sort of hate the M3LR for making me realize that the STI I'd put so much effort into isn't that appealing to drive now. Nor is the idea of filling its 10g tank so it can gulp fuel at 12mpg.

I agree with you 100%. As a daily driver, they can't be beat. The Tesla and probably most EVs moving forward have effortless power, much easier to drive in traffic, efficient, etc. but as an enthusiast, over time this experience became somewhat boring to me. I guess it really depends what you want out of a car. If you appreciate a smooth, quiet, comfortable ride with some cool tech features the Tesla should keep you satisfied. However, if you appreciate a great exhaust note, rowing through the gears, or hearing a DCT rip through the shifts or maybe you prefer RWD driving dynamics with true mechanical LSD vs. the quirky software controlled setup you get from the EV drivetrain then it is hard to give up on ICE performance cars just yet.