The R2 will have to closer compete with the likes of the Y and X ... not to mention all the other EV crossover SUV's coming to market... tough hill to climb pun intended
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Mach-E and my Y. Side by Side pics
- Thread starter runningdenver
- Start date
Tesla owners quick to predict Rivian's demise... ok....
ANY MITUSA company willing to take on the giant, entrenched auto industry has my vote and hope that they succeed beyond any prediction.
That's exactly Tesla's story.
Tesla has been marginalized and written off by experts in finance, auto and tech pundits. Constantly.
There's one constant: Mainstream industry hates anything that is different and new.... until it isn't. Then they copy it and try to crush it or buy it.
ANY MITUSA company willing to take on the giant, entrenched auto industry has my vote and hope that they succeed beyond any prediction.
That's exactly Tesla's story.
Tesla has been marginalized and written off by experts in finance, auto and tech pundits. Constantly.
There's one constant: Mainstream industry hates anything that is different and new.... until it isn't. Then they copy it and try to crush it or buy it.
I also agree. Unless it’s the cyber truck or a plaid S (maybe a plaid x), I wouldn’t buy another Y or a 3. Not the type of guy who has his/her matching cars. Lol. Both look like mom cars. Unless it’s performance, both cars are not masculine looking. Lol
My friend (his wife) has a mach e and he never complained about the fit and finish. I didn’t have a great experience picking up my model Y.
If you can stand the poor battery pack design and failing contactors, as well as insufficient charging network and poor handling then that's the car for you.
TomB985
Member
That’s what I mean. Take an early-build failure and brand the entire lineup with them. They fixed the contractor problem over a year ago, and the modular pack enables repair rather than scrapping the entire pack for a few bad cells.
Tesla fans get all up in arms when people label the brand based on an early failure, but some are quick to do that to others.
I hope rivian makes it.. I even have stock in them.. but there's a difference between 2012 and 2023.. on the one hand you have wider acceptance of EVs today... On the other hand you have very stiff competition and much more expensive financing, parts, and labor... They have a great product that I hope succeeds I'm just pointing out their challenges
Tell you the truth, I don’t care how it’s designed or made internally. Long as it’s trouble free running. Ever seen the complicated designs in ICE vehicles. And the go for many many miles.
Far as charging, I charge at home and most public places that I seen charger are not tesla chargers. But I understand tesla charging network is good.
I personally would not buy the Mach e over the tesla model y. That’s why my wife has the Y. But have you driven the Mach E. I drove it and you really can’t tell it’s lacking on handling. However, I did not take a 90 degree turn going 60+ mph though.
My wife (Ford lover through and through) and I drove both the Mach E and the Y back to back... shes coming from an F150 so they both handled better than anything shes used to... the Mach E seemed much smaller cargo wise ... that along with the SC network and the obnoxious volume knob in the middle of the screen were deal breakers for her and she ordered a Y that same day... there just seems to be much more utilitarian use for a Y which is what we were buying it for... i was also able to easily lift the Y (MPP lift) and put some bigger tires on it so it looks a little more like an SUV
That's the point.
2012 - no one cared about ev's, shorter range, no charging network, poor to extremely poor quality, supplier problems.... There are ALWAYS serious hurdles to overcome for any new company- especially in the auto sector, where the cards are incredibly stacked against it.
2023 - different challenges. Good luck to Rivian. To even get this far is something impressive. God knows many have tried and failed even since Rivian started.
For another MITUSA brand to succeed is only a big win for consumers. If it fails, that is a big loss to innovation and consumer choice. Choice = competition.
You should care how it's designed and made internally. If more consumers actually paid attention to it, ICE vehicles and vehicles in general wouldn't be so disposable now.
Complicated ICE vehicles DON'T go for many many miles. That's the point. They require constant and expensive maintenance. That's why the most complex (usually German lux brands) are designed as lease vehicles and have the depreciation of birthday cake at Fat Albert's house.
The longest lasting, most durable ICE vehicles? Also the simplest and most well engineered internally- mostly all Toyotas.
The engineering on most EV's is a bodge. Parts bin engineering because they are so locked into ICE parts supply chains and inventory.
That is not good for efficiency, durability or maintenance.
In a mature market where the underlying tech is mature and there's minimal innovation in play - this approach is perfectly legit IMHO. ICE has been around for well over 100 years now - it's very mature tech with minimal growth potential - in fact ICE now has a declining market share - due to the disruptive BEV market share gains starting to eat into ICE market share. But the BEV market is not a mature market nor is the tech mature. It is still in the innovation and early growth market stages. This means the early adopter consumers need to be more conscientious about their purchases - buyer beware in other words. This means we likely do need to care more about how it's designed and made internally - because those internals and the manufacturers real world experience will determine whether we buy a reliable product that is built to last vs a product riddled with issues that ends up living at dealerships for months because of a lack of diagnostic repair experience and/or parts availability. Sure BEVs are simpler in so far as the number of moving parts is concerned, but the battery pack tech and the BMS is not simple. GM recalling 141k Bolt battery packs proves this isn't something to ignore. Ford had F150 Lightning's catching fire in the factory parking lot just a few months ago. This is a major reason why we chose Tesla. Sure I like the "look" of some of the other BEVs on the market - but in this case I don't care as much about looks and creature comforts - I care much more about the real world experience that the manufacturer has when bringing an early adopter product to market in a reliable and holistic manner.
Specific to BEVs - this also means looking at our ability to fuel these vehicles on roadtrips (public charging networks). Tesla is by far the leader in the BEV marketplace - and their focus on vertical integration differentiates them from the legacy auto manufacturers - which still predominantly use a non-vertically integrated approach in comparison. Tesla owns the most reliable (by far) public charging network on the planet right now - the others are a very distant second - again indicating that experience matters - even when building a reliable public charging infrastructure. They also have 15 years of BEV design and more mass production manufacturing experience - using nextgen lean manufacturing processes leveraging gigapresses to drive down costs - that at present no other manufacturer can match - at least here in the US. For me, all of these important decision points made my decision simple - if we buy a BEV - it's going to be a Tesla - at least for the foreseeable future. We aren't early adopter types - so we didn't buy a Tesla BEV until this year - some 11 years after Tesla started mass production of the MS (2012). Most of the other legacy manufacturers are just bringing their BEVs to market this year (year 1 or perhaps year 2 at most). I for one won't risk being a year 1 or year 2 early adopter of anything so expensive that we need to rely on every day for daily driving requirements. YMMV.
mostly agree with your post.. however the actual electric motor is older than the ICE and people have been improving on them for centuries now... battery technology is also quite old but is obviously still getting better.. how much better in the last decade? not much really.. the 2012 Model S is still pretty much as good as the ones coming out of the factory now.. they are just doing it for much cheaper now
TomB985
Member
Nothing screams “Made to last!” more than a glued-together battery pack that must be replaced as a whole unit.
Oh wait…
sadly that's probably one of the least disposable things done in the name of cost cutting....
If it outlasts the car on average and can be ground down to the basic materials for re use, then great! Time will tell.
Serviceability matters, but maybe not at the expense of vastly longer charge time, lower regenerative braking, and reduced duration of high power for acceleration or hill climb and towing.
Tha_Ape
Active Member
I think how its designed could have a large effect on insurance. Tesla's structural battery for instance. If the car gets hit and you have to replace that ENTIRE thing, that will surely cost the insurance company a lot of money which they will account for with higher rates. I
'm not sure if thats why my insurance jumped 20% this year (no accidents, no tickets), but Ive never seen that drastic of a change in my rates. I ended up switching companies and saving a ton of money on car insurance (cue the ad jingle). The only thing I could think of is that they lumped my car in with newer ones that "may" be more expensive to fix.
As an aside, my new insurance company classifies the Model Y as a Sport Wagon (which to be honest, is probably closer to the truth than an SUV).
Premium Mach E with long range battery and Blue Cruise with the new price cut is still about $9,000 more than the Y Long Range AWD. Tax credit adds another $3,750 difference. Crazy that there are still some Ford dealers demanding ADM.
Similar threads
