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Afraid to drive their car because of a feature you don't have to use?! Doesn't anyone like driving cars anymore?
While I agree that continued fear is an overreaction, I think you are missing the underlying point by referring to it as a feature you don't have to use.

Static cruise control is a perfectly valid way to do very active driving, and it is more effective than active speed control in certain very common contexts.

I love driving, and I loved driving my '09 Outback XT, including on the highway. Most of the time, the way I drove on the highway was to set the cruise control speed to the speed I wanted to go - typically 15mph over the speed limit. Then I would drive foot-free, passing cars as they got in my way - often quite frequently. It was relatively rare that there wasn't a path at my current speed, and when there was, my hand was already on the wheel. I could tweak my speed by a couple mph with just a thumb flick, to address a temporary condition.

Active speed control is for when your speed requirements and options are changing more often than they are staying the same. When requirements only change infrequently, it is more effective to have an interface that only requires input when you want something different than what you wanted before. Teslas effectively don't have this.

No, you don't have to use it, but we do lack a tool that does what we want, that nearly all other cars have. It's sort of like how you can use a almost anything as a hammer when you don't have a hammer. A hammer is better at hammering than anything else. This particular hammer would be free for Tesla to give us, and there is no good reason for why they instead only give us this other hammer-like thing that frequently misses or bends the nail, and smashes somebody's thumb a lot more often than a plain old static dumb hammer.
 
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Static cruise control is actually worse in every possible way, but we like it because we have adapted to using it, learning it quirks and cons and using it wisely.
I think the point is for people that have chronic phantom braking, they might want dumb cruise control as an alternative. For those of us that don't have this issue, it may be hard to see this point, because Autosteer and TACC works so well.
 
I think the point is for people that have chronic phantom braking, they might want dumb cruise control as an alternative. For those of us that don't have this issue, it may be hard to see this point, because Autosteer and TACC works so well.
Yes. I agree with you.

Given the technology we had back then, control was limited and thus only able to implement on empty roads, which is what became the use case for many.

Now Given the new technology and the fact that most people are driving in city traffic, their objective changed from replicating cruise control to traffic aware driving. In doing so, of course they now have to use these new building blocks to build driving in low ot no traffic areas.
 
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Static cruise control is actually worse in every possible way, but we like it because we have adapted to using it, learning it quirks and cons and using it wisely.
worse in every way except in that it works like it's supposed to! I think @stopcrazypp is right - people experiencing frequent significant phantom braking would like to the option for 'dumb' cruise that's reliable.
1. TACC now vs Cruise Control then - the difference is it is supposed to be smarter, not just do one thing.

2. Cruise Control on my cars had a minimum speed limit before I could engage. I have skipped adopting Adaptive cruise control and moved directly to the new gen TACC. That being said, it has been proven that regular radar was always a problem and it would identify objects where none existed. HD Radar does not have that issue, and HD radar is the new kid on the block.

3. The L3 limitation is self imposed by Mercedes. The govt has nothing to say in that matter.
1. supposed to be smarter. That goes back to my original point - adding features is fine but not at the expense of making the existing features worse. The supposed advantages of TACC are still not clear to me but the disadvantages are abundantly clear. If Tesla can't make TACC at least equivalent in function and reliability to existing adaptive cruise then they shouldn't release it until it is.

2. It's manufacturer and generation dependent. I had an old (1999) Toyota in which CC wouldn't work below 30 MPH. Newer Toyota's have gone below 30. Some adaptive cruise systems are able to slow to a complete stop, some not. The repeated refrain here on TMC is that Tesla's problems with TACC and PB started when they got rid of radar. I have no experience to comment either way.

3. Irrelevant to the discussion.
 
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I think you’re confusing radar with the ultrasonic sensors.
In the investor day video they talked about the old wiring harness with a gazillion sensors and bragged that they removed most of them, to save money, supply chain problems, and manufacturing effort. They were silent about adding HD radar and the questions about HW4 got crickets. You know, any part is a bad part.

It's impossible to know how this will go. I think the whole system is designed for the robotaxi and not for people who drive, so maybe they don't care about phantom braking. They certainly don't care that drivers want a basic cruise control. And Elon has staked his reputation on vision-only, regardless of the fact that it's taking a long time to get right - and that the competition is building decent self-driving. To me it's very weird. Especially since the company's getting bad press for the FSD recall. I feel like a little speck on a blob of "users" that don't matter to the brilliant CEO. I'm an edge case...
 
Hi guys,

Just wanted to share an experience that I've had today so that others looking at Teslas to use for long distance driving can make an informed decision.

My wife and I drove our 2023 MYLR from Tucson to Las Vegas. It's a ~7 hour drive (8.5 with charging stops, ~400 miles) mostly through an open desert highway. Traffic is minimal and driving an ICE car is easy on cruise control. Most of the drive is going straight on a highway. We've done it dozens of times since we travel between the two spots often and is a reason we got a Tesla.

The car is 6 days old and running the latest software. During our trip we experienced 19 phantom breaking incidents where the car decided to break at highway speeds for no reason. In all cases there were no cars or obstructions in the way and this occurred at various stretches of the trip. The breaking was very aggressive.

After the first few phantom breaking events we started disabling various "autopilot" features such as emergency breaking, etc. In the end, nothing made a difference and the phantom breaking was occurring even on regular "cruise control" (one pull down) with all other features disabled.

To summarize, the experience was unpleasant and dangerous. If at any time during the phantom breaking event there was a car following us closely there would have been an accident. I do not feel safe operating this vehicle with any type of "autopilot" feature because it's unsafe and behaves erratically.

I know people will say that this is all "beta" and "experimental" and I should always be ready to take over, and of course that part is correct. But when the car breaks suddenly at highway speeds for no reason "taking over" is difficult, especially if this behavior creates an accident. Furthermore, the expectation is that it's 2022 and even the simplest of vehicles offer a cruise control that doesn't slam its breaks on the highway.

I'd be curious to know if others have the same issue. I feel like this is a SERIOUS safety problem and now I am very weary of my Tesla.

Luca
Yes when on auto pilot we experience it often on our s. So scary.
 
In the investor day video they talked about the old wiring harness with a gazillion sensors and bragged that they removed most of them, to save money, supply chain problems, and manufacturing effort. They were silent about adding HD radar and the questions about HW4 got crickets. You know, any part is a bad part.

It's impossible to know how this will go. I think the whole system is designed for the robotaxi and not for people who drive, so maybe they don't care about phantom braking. They certainly don't care that drivers want a basic cruise control. And Elon has staked his reputation on vision-only, regardless of the fact that it's taking a long time to get right - and that the competition is building decent self-driving. To me it's very weird. Especially since the company's getting bad press for the FSD recall. I feel like a little speck on a blob of "users" that don't matter to the brilliant CEO. I'm an edge case...
you could argue that L4+ (= robotaxis) shouldn't be prone to phantom braking ... regulators won't take it lightly if a robotaxi slams on the brakes because "vision only" cant differentiate a mirage over hot asphalt on a summer day from a legit object being on the road and with missing radars/ lidar the system has no way of verifying it either
 
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you could argue that L4+ (= robotaxis) shouldn't be prone to phantom braking ... regulators won't take it lightly if a robotaxi slams on the brakes because "vision only" cant differentiate a mirage over hot asphalt on a summer day from a legit object being on the road and with missing radars/ lidar the system has no way of verifying it either
Uh no.

It is the following vehicles responsibility to keep a safe distance and be able to brake safely.
 
Right. It is not stopping for no reason. It is just slowing down.
More importantly it will not PB when someone is following it.
So the situations are mutually exclusive.

aah. do we have that officially or anecdotally ?

because "there might be something on the road - but I'll slam into it because someone is behind me" is a rather interesting algo for AP (...)

either there is something or there isn't ... AP taking you from 75mph to 50 mph within seconds clearly shows that the system thought "there is something"
 
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aah. do we have that officially or anecdotally ?

because "there might be something on the road - but I'll slam into it because someone is behind me" is a rather interesting algo for AP (...)

either there is something or there isn't ... AP taking you from 75mph to 50 mph within seconds clearly shows that the system thought "there is something"

Well anecdotally, lots of people complain about PB and a good amount of those people also use a similar phrase to "glad there was no one behind me or they surely would have hit me".

And also, lots of people complain about PB but there doesn't seem to be lots of stories about accidents caused by it...you would think there would be lots of stories in the news if this was a problem that was resulting in crashes.