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Major Safety Issue - Hoping a Tesla engineer watching the forums reads this!

Discussion in 'Model S' started by nasell, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Joe F

    Joe F Disruption is hard.

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    My guess: Wiring harness issue in the stalk or column. High beams may even have been affected as well. Scary at speed. Glad nothing bad happened and all are well!
     
  2. rjcbox

    rjcbox Member

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    I'm amazed at some of these very rare reports. 2years/22k miles and I don't remember having to adjust either my auto-headlights, or auto-wipers, they've worked flawlessly
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    This is total conspiracy stuff, but with two optical systems going out simultaneously, I wonder if you were lazed with an IR laser? Not seen but screws with the optical sensors!
     
  4. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    "safety problem" implies a widespread issue and not a fluke technical fault. But sure ill go ahead and report to the NHTSA next time my car has a malfunction.
     
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  5. nasell

    nasell Member

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    Everything is on the table - but thinking this one through, it's happened three times, in vastly different locations. So if this were the case, the chances of this happening are statistically unlikely.

    Additionally, once the headlights [improperly] turn off, they don't work for the remainder of the trip. They only reset after the car is turned off for a period of time, which I would assume is a full deep sleep versus just a computer reboot. The lights then work again as intended.
     
  6. nasell

    nasell Member

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    Is there a difference between a fluke technical fault and a widespread issue when it involves your family, in your car, at highway speeds?

    This isn't a trivial feature failing. For someone who just took delivery of their MS on 4/7/17, I would hope that you're not being sarcastic.
     
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  7. Zero CO2

    Zero CO2 a long term goal

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    Ignore the blind faith fanboys and TSLA stock pumpers on this forum...the reason to post issues like this is so that when other Tesla owners (not TSLA) encounter similar issues whether they be real or imagined there is place to turn not filtered by the corporation (for me i have personally had a bit of pilot error in adjusting to the Model S and post such as yours have been invaluable to me)....i know you are not discouraged as you have to keep hammering back....
     
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  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    @nasell - I just want to throw in my two cents.

    While many here like to label me as a blindly loyal fangirl (and I am a fan :)), posting the video and calmly describing what happened was absolutely the correct thing to do. It made me think twice about how I'd handle if it happened to me.

    I'm sorry you've gotten so much pushback. I appreciate the fact that you didn't overstate or understate what happened. And of course, happy to see you immediately let Tesla know. This is an appropriate (imo) event for the NHSTA to be made aware of, which also was done, even though it doesn't appear to be widespread.

    So kudos to you for how you handled this - calmly, without drama, and notifying all the correct parties. I appreciate it.
     
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  9. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. The next time it happens, after you manually turn the headlights on, hold down the buttons above the scroll wheels for ten or fifteen seconds and thereby reboot the driver's display and computers.

    If that doesn't reset it, hold down the scroll wheels themselves for a similar period to reboot the center display and computer.

    Both can be done while driving, but you might be more comfortable if you pulled over first.

    It'll be interesting to see which resets it, or if neither do...
     
  10. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Because the Tesla is the only car ever to have "safety issues." Anything technical can malfunction, doesn't indicate a widespread problem. Has anyone else on TMC reported these issues?

    Spare me the blind faith fanboy speech. Just because someone is thinking rationally doesn't make them a fanboy. If my car headlights failed at highway speeds id be mad too, but i wouldn't run crying to the NHTSA.

    Nobody is giving the OP a hard time because there was a safety issue and they felt unsafe. They're giving them a hard time because of what is clearly an overreaction by filing a regulatory complaint. Next time United Airlines doesn't have a functioning toilet i'll be sure to complain to the FAA.
     
    • Disagree x 6
  11. nasell

    nasell Member

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    Hi Saghost,

    Yes, both resets were performed while I was on the phone with technical support. Neither worked to resolve the issue - the lights remained off under "Auto" mode, and only returned to operational after sitting overnight.

    And thank you Bonnie / Zero CO2. Your support is heartwarming and appreciated. Hopefully your issue Zero is completely different, but if not, now you know what to look for - and the fact that you are now aware means that you and your family are safer for it.
     
  12. nasell

    nasell Member

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    I don't think you read my entire post, obviously. I never said it was a widespread problem, in fact, I said multiple times that I hope it's not.

    And "run crying to the NHTSA"? WTF is wrong with you?

    I care enough about your family to do what's right and report it. Are you saying that if you notice a safety issue, you wouldn't do the same for me and my family?
     
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  13. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Report it to someone who can actually do something about it, say like i don't know Tesla? what were you hoping to accomplish by reporting it to the NHTSA? Seemed more like a power move to show Tesla who's boss. Manufacturers are required by law to report safety defects to the NHTSA if there is one. What you experienced was most likely a malfunction, not a safety defect. That's what the NHTSA's jurisdiction is.

    I did read your entire post. the fact you want a tesla engineer to look at this means you believe there is some underlying design flaw.
     
    • Disagree x 6
  14. nasell

    nasell Member

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    So how did you miss the part about me reporting it to them multiple times?

    But since I've made a commitment to respond to ALL criticism, regardless of reality, let me break it down for you. Companies often don't disclose bugs, code, system design etc to a random customer such as myself. It makes it very easy for them to (right/wrong/indifferent) tell me that it's fixed, and I have no oversight or reasonable ability to validate that it actually is, such as the first two times this happened.

    Now my hope is, to answer your question, that by involving the NHTSA on some level, they will be forced to look into this issue and either indicate that a proper resolution was found, and help me to feel comfortable that it's been addressed.

    And yes, I want a Tesla engineer back in Fremont to be looking at this. I know that they look at buckets of work orders, and look for things that stand out, but that is generally by sheer numbers. I personally think this is a large enough issue that has been repeated multiple times, that I would like to raise the flag of concern. If you don't feel like it's that big of a deal, then hey, no problem... simply stop responding and move along.
     
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  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Reporting a legitimate concern to a safety organization is not an overreaction. They look at overall issues, besides just a particular manufacturer.

    Let me give you an example in another industry, one I know in-depth: When a medical device fails in a way that results in harm or could, if the situation were to happen again, could result in harm, both the manufacturer and the clinician are required to report into FDA's safety database.

    Many years ago, some pacemaker companies reported random instances of pacemaker batteries failing a little earlier than expected. No one died. It wasn't widespread within a particular manufacturer's product line. But FDA noted that they had more random instances cropping up across the product spectrum - so they investigated. They found that a battery maker had changed manufacturing process & it was leading to early failure in some cases. An industry safety bulletin was issued & undoubtedly resulted in lives saved. And if those random 'not widespread' reports hadn't been reported, FDA would never have investigated.

    Reporting legitimate safety events, whether widespread or one-offs, is not an overreaction. Nor does NHTSA punish companies for reports like these. Everyone, including Tesla, wants to find the root cause and prevent it from happening again.
     
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  16. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

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    @tpham07 Comparing this to a malfunctioning toilet on a commercial airline is just plain insulting. You obviously don't have a family that rides in your car... and probably never will.
     
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  17. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of the politics, when you have an automatic system, you have a fail mode default. For a trash compactor, it should be OFF. For a headlight, it should ON.

    If the headlights are engineered in such a manner that a fail mode event turns the lights off, then you have a safety issue even if it has never occurred in the wild.

    Since the headlights work, and no codes were thrown, I'd say there is a strong chance that the fail mode default was coded wrong. Ex - the activation sensor system is giving an out range reading so it shuts down. Wrong default.

    If this is the case, then it affects all cars, even if there is only a single report.
     
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  18. nasell

    nasell Member

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    This is a great point, and something I wrote to them last night, I'll quote my email:

    Was thinking through a couple of additional things on my drive tonight:

    - Can you see what the ECU was detecting at the moment the lights turned off?
    - Did it detect daylight?
    - Did it report back nothing (failed sensor)?
    - If it truly is a failed sensor, or a loose connection, can I personally recommend back to the Tesla firmware team to default the headlights to ON in the case of a fault?

    I'd rather the lights be on in the daytime, rather than off at nighttime if there really is a loose connection or faulty sensor.

    Is there any redundancy calculations that can happen from a) time of day, b) average of multiple camera light levels, for example, to provide a fail-safe to this?


    Thanks,

    [nasell]
     
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  19. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    It's so sad to see the TSLA trolls here trying to minimize OP's issue and how he handled it. SAD!
     
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  20. nasell

    nasell Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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