Manual turns with FSD by using turn signals

[JB47394]

Does anyone else think that it would be handy to be able to use our turn signal to request a turn at an intersection? We already have the ability to get the car to change lanes on demand, but the car won't actually make turns by use of turn signals. I find the current handling of lane selection to be pretty flaky, so I'd like to load a destination into the car's GPS to get turn instructions, then send the car on its way - but where it never changes lanes or turns unless I use my turn signal.

I'd want to treat the turn signals like a request button instead of a standard turn signal that the car then notices and acts on. So I depress the turn signal and nothing happens, but the car will do its best to change lanes or turn at the next available point/opening. It would decide when to turn on the blinker. For example, if there's a turn coming up in a mile (and there are no other turns on that side of the road), I can hit the turn signal and in one mile the car will turn on its turn signal, slow and make the turn.

Conceivably, I could tap the turn signal multiple times to indicate multiple lane changes.

Laws may prevent the use of a turn signal for anything other than turning on the blinker, but this is something that I've wanted for a while now.

If FSD V11 can dramatically improve the turning logic with the introduction of neural nets, perhaps I'll lose my desire for such a feature. That said, having the ability to tell the car to take a turn even with the current FSD behavior would be handy - for the same reason that being able to change lanes is handy.

 

[gearchruncher]

Likely completely illegal. Repurposing your turn signal controls so they no longer actually turn on the turn signals? Sounds like a good way for Tesla to have even more scrutiny put on their public "beta" of their "Full Self Driving" program that requires the human to be fully aware and able to take over at any point. They've already been forced into one recall over it for violating laws.

 

[JB47394]

Repurposing your turn signal controls so they no longer actually turn on the turn signals?

Make a light depress of the stalk request a turn and full depress also turn on the blinker.

My real question is whether the ability to direct a self-driving car only by indicating lane changes and turns sounds interesting to others. I find the lane change ability to be wonderful, and would like the ability to do more. Verbal commands would be fun too. "Park at that Starbucks"

 

[jjrandorin]

My real question is whether the ability to direct a self-driving car only by indicating lane changes and turns sounds interesting to others.

If we actually had a self driving car it would, but we dont, so it doesnt (to me anyway).

 

[gearchruncher]

My real question is whether the ability to direct a self-driving car only by indicating lane changes and turns sounds interesting to others.

Once we have a self driving car, it won't have turn signal switches or even a steering wheel. What is a self driving car that needs to be told when to turn? My self driving wife gets really annoyed when I do that

 

[EVRider-FL]

Not sure what the use case is for telling the car to turn when it's already navigating somewhere. If you want to go a different way you can disengage FSD, turn, then re-engage after the navigation system recalculates the route. Or are you saying you basically just want to use Autosteer with ability to turn at intersections?

 

[Mark II]

Not sure what the use case is for telling the car to turn when it's already navigating somewhere. If you want to go a different way you can disengage FSD, turn, then re-engage after the navigation system recalculates the route. Or are you saying you basically just want to use Autosteer with ability to turn at intersections?

Personally I would love this feature, or at least the ability to change the route. Tesla routing does not always take into account roads it is incapable of driving down (aka FSDb != FSD), so I would like to re-route it automatically by using the turn signal without disengaging FSD. Unfortunately when I start the route it provides options, but not the one I actually want!

Maybe in the distant future FSDb == FSD, then I won't need it.

 

[Mark II]

Does anyone else think that it would be handy to be able to use our turn signal to request a turn at an intersection? We already have the ability to get the car to change lanes on demand, but the car won't actually make turns by use of turn signals. I find the current handling of lane selection to be pretty flaky, so I'd like to load a destination into the car's GPS to get turn instructions, then send the car on its way - but where it never changes lanes or turns unless I use my turn signal.

I'd want to treat the turn signals like a request button instead of a standard turn signal that the car then notices and acts on. So I depress the turn signal and nothing happens, but the car will do its best to change lanes or turn at the next available point/opening. It would decide when to turn on the blinker. For example, if there's a turn coming up in a mile (and there are no other turns on that side of the road), I can hit the turn signal and in one mile the car will turn on its turn signal, slow and make the turn.

Conceivably, I could tap the turn signal multiple times to indicate multiple lane changes.

Laws may prevent the use of a turn signal for anything other than turning on the blinker, but this is something that I've wanted for a while now.

If FSD V11 can dramatically improve the turning logic with the introduction of neural nets, perhaps I'll lose my desire for such a feature. That said, having the ability to tell the car to take a turn even with the current FSD behavior would be handy - for the same reason that being able to change lanes is handy.

I would be happy if it actually turned on the blinker, and then initiated a turn at the next intersection, instead of going straight. Or if the blinker was already on, then pressing the button should turn it off, and go straight. Just like it does when changing lanes, as you mentioned.

 

[JB47394]

Not sure what the use case is for telling the car to turn when it's already navigating somewhere. If you want to go a different way you can disengage FSD, turn, then re-engage after the navigation system recalculates the route. Or are you saying you basically just want to use Autosteer with ability to turn at intersections?

In the short term, it would take up the slack for the crummy FSD lane selection system. I have FSD, but I still drive the car. If I had this feature then I would use FSD more often. If Tesla is still having problems with their lane selection system after switching to neural nets, perhaps having the lane selection data from drivers could be used to improve it.

More generally, just as people enjoy driving with a manual transmission despite the existence of automatic transmissions, I would like to direct the car on a turn by turn basis. Sometimes I would do that with a destination in the GPS because I don't know the way, and other times I would be going to a known place and just want to send the car along the route I know. Disengaging and reengaging is a cumbersome way to interact with the car. I'd just like to say "Turn here" in a direct way.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I think it's generally a great suggestion, but it's not surprising that there are negative reactions - this almost always happens when someone imagines a different implementation. Being able to influence or direct the car, whether or not in the middle of a current nav route is not a far-fetched idea.

How exactly the feature should be done though, may require some for their thought. Right now, FSD allows you to request a lane change with a full press, and that also starts the blinking immediately, even if it's not the smartest time to initiate. In any case, extending that existing feature, to request an actual turn at the next opportunity, doesn't seem inconsistent to me. Perhaps it could be requested by two successive full presses of the turn signal stalk, unlikely to be confused with a normal activation.

I think one problem could be establishing the exact intent, as it's often the case that signaling for the next road turn may also involve bypassing turns into driveways, parking lots or minor roads that immediately precede the next real intersection. Interpreting the driver's intent in these cases may require a bit of AI hooked into the nav destination - something that doesn't really exist right now.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but I'll say that the feature I'd rather have first is related but different, i.e. the inverse of the existing " Request Lane Change" feature. I'd like a way to tell FSD not to make lane changes based on its perception of slow or stacked-up traffic up ahead in the current lane.

With the current software, I'm constantly having to cancel the car's over-eager attempts to signal and change lanes, often at very inappropriate moments. Even worse is that maybe half of these are "phantom" lane-change decisions that cancel themselves after three or four false-alarm blinks. In much earlier versions of FSD beta, there was a lot of criticism that the car would sit dumbly behind double-parked cars or delivery trucks in urban traffic, and it seems to me that they may have over-corrected this behavior to the point that it's become one of the most common errors, especially bad because it signals the unwanted intention to everyone else before you have a chance to cancel it. On my more suburban drives, it's pretty rare that there is an actual need to jump over to the next lane; that's mostly a behavior of impatient drivers. I set the lane change preference to Chill, but it doesn't seem to help much.

Anyway, I agree that in general there should be easier ways (not involving map reprogramming, adding waypoints on the screen and so on) to influence the current route plan - whether that's to request a routing choice or to tell the car to stay patient and on track.

 

[LadyOnikara]

I think it would be kind of neat. You could let the car know that you prefer that road and the next time it drives you somewhere, it will take that road instead of the road that it wants to take.

 

[JulienW]

I think it would be kind of neat. You could let the car know that you prefer that road and the next time it drives you somewhere, it will take that road instead of the road that it wants to take.

Your car is not a "person" and has no passion for or memory of the path it takes. Every time it drives anywhere it is "seeing" it for the first time. The path it takes is plotted by the Navigation software (totally separate from the FSD Beta) and then that path tells FSD Beta where to maneuver.

 

[gearchruncher]

...And that NAV software takes things like traffic into account. Do you really want it to take that road if it adds 13 minutes due to an incident along that route?

 

[KArnold]

I'd suggest voice commands ‐ "Take the next exit" or "Turn right on Main St," or even "Stay in this lane.".

one problem could be establishing the exact intent, as it's often the case that signaling for the next road turn may also involve bypassing turns into driveways, parking lots or minor roads that immediately precede the next real intersection.

This ^^^. Saying "Take the next left" could be ambiguous so it would need to be careful. Maybe "Turn left at next light" or "...next intersection" or ASSUME an ambiguous request means "...at the next public road.".

Interesting thought but it would need to be well thought out. Personally I'd like a blue button like in AP that won't change lanes at all, perhaps except for Nav purposes.

 

[JulienW]

A better method might be if Tesla added a way memorize a manual drive. You could make a point A to point B drive then save it with a name. Then you could use that name in Navigation and even add in Way Points.

 

[Supcom]

I'd suggest voice commands ‐ "Take the next exit" or "Turn right on Main St," or even "Stay in this lane.".



This ^^^. Saying "Take the next left" could be ambiguous so it would need to be careful. Maybe "Turn left at next light" or "...next intersection" or ASSUME an ambiguous request means "...at the next public road.".

Interesting thought but it would need to be well thought out. Personally I'd like a blue button like in AP that won't change lanes at all, perhaps except for Nav purposes.

Driver: "Turn left at the next traffic light"
Car: "Navigating to Boise, Idaho"
Driver: " No! Turn left at the next traffic light!"
Car: "Placing order for twelve dozen Big Macs. Do you want fries with those?"

 

[Mullermn]

Your car is not a "person" and has no passion for or memory of the path it takes. Every time it drives anywhere it is "seeing" it for the first time. The path it takes is plotted by the Navigation software (totally separate from the FSD Beta) and then that path tells FSD Beta where to maneuver.

This isn’t impossible though. Supposedly Waze does this - if you drive the same route and routinely override its directions it claims to learn your preference.

I used it for years and can’t claim I really noticed that happening, but the concept is out there. You’re right that it would be the navigation system that adapts not FSD though.

 

[T061]

How hard would it be for Tesla to include a 2nd and 3rd option in gray at major intersections so you could change the route on the fly.
You click on 2nd option in gray and the car turns instead of going straight.
Then add the function for the stalks to do this selection.
The car would have to use a little more processing power, but it should actively be checking for better routes anyways (like Google and Waze) so it's just a matter of displaying it on the screen and letting the user select it without having to end route and renavigate.

This seems so obvious.
Elon is looking for people to innovate... just check the message boards. Therefore are lots of free ideas to improve the UI with presumably minor code changes.

 

[Mullermn]

They’re never going to do that. The aim for FSD is for it to be ‘L5’ or completely autonomous. It doesn’t make any sense that they’d accommodate human drivers modifying the driving plan on the fly.

 

[JulienW]

They’re never going to do that. The aim for FSD is for it to be ‘L5’ or completely autonomous....

....and they will never be able to do L5 either with the current cars's hardware.