Marked up resale model 3s showing up on eBay

[TEG]

Some eBay examples:

5YJ3E1EA9HF002073 $80,000+ 2017 Tesla Other | eBay
5YJ3E1EA6HF001267 $75,995+ 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | eBay
5YJ3E1EA5HF002376 $64,995+ 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | eBay
?????????????????? $77,000+ Tesla Model 3 | eBay

Some Craiglist examples:

$112233 2017 Tesla Model 3
$80000 New Tesla Model 3
$79500 Tesla Model 3 - $79.5k or best offer
$75000 Actual Car - Tesla Model 3 - OBO - Pickup today and dont wait 2 years
$75000 Black Tesla Model 3 FULLY loaded - Car is in my possession
$75000 Tesla Model 3 Built and ready for pickup
$75000 Actual Car - Tesla Model 3 - OBO - Pickup today and dont wait 2 years
$72500 Tesla Model 3 ready for pick up NOW
$70000 Tesla Model 3 White - January pickup / Ordered
$65500 Tesla Model 3 Built / Ready for Pickup Sat Dec 30th or later
$64000 Tesla Model 3 Fully Loaded
$60000 For Sale -- Tesla Model 3 (white with 18in aero wheels)

It is a shame that some employees or previous owners are just buying to flip them like that.
It voids the tax credit, and makes us line waiters wait that much longer to get the car we plan to keep.

 

[patrick40363]

They have been on ebay for quite some time.

 

[T34ME]

2017 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | eBay

2017 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | eBay

2017 Tesla Other | eBay

Tesla Model 3 | eBay

It is a shame that some employees or previous owners are just buying to flip them like that.
It voids the tax credit, and makes us line waiters wait that much longer to get the car we plan to keep.

Apparently he has only LR, PUP, and 19" wheels. So he paid $50,500 plus $1000 for delivery and he wants $91K for it. The very definition of an opportunistic grifter.

 

[run-the-joules]

And I bet they will not pay capital gains taxes either.

 

[luvnMyTS]

It is a shame that some employees or previous owners are just buying to flip them like that.
It voids the tax credit, and makes us line waiters wait that much longer to get the car we plan to keep.

I'm just curious, how does what someone does with the car they own result in you having to wait longer for your car? Are you saying Tesla would build cars faster if the guy that took delivery 3 weeks ago chose to keep his car instead of choosing to sell it? What am I missing?

Also, how does it void the tax credit? Is there something that says the tax credit is void if you choose to sell your car after you bought it? Seems like the original owner would still get the tax credit unless they're a dealer, where you're not supposed to purchase with the intent to sell. A rule intended against dealers using up the tax credits. But there's no rule against a non-dealer buying the car, driving it, then deciding you don't want it and then choosing to sell it.

Also, where did you get the information that these are all employees? Based on VINs of each one, they are not early number employee cars.Or that they're owners that bought them to flip like that? Did you ask these sellers what they were thinking before writing your post full of accusations?

And, your saying these guys didn't have to wait in line too? Did Tesla allow these guys to skip to the front of the line and buy a bunch of cars? All the VINs are over 1,000. Employee cars were under 1,000 numbered cars. If they're existing Tesla owners, they had to wait in line just like everyone else. Being that Tesla chose not to put this car in it's stores, nor let anyone drive them or get inside of them before making the commitment to buy one, isn't it just possible that the Tesla supporters (existing owners) made reservations on blind faith for Tesla only to get the car and decide it's not for them? The Model S & X are far superior cars in terms of features. For someone used to a $100,000 car, chances are the Model 3 with a beyond minimalist approach, isn't going to satisfy all high end car owners. Maybe they took a chance and decided "I tried it, not for me, sell it and move on". Knowing that there were 500,000 reservations that they'd likely be able to get their after tax money out of the car, so it was worth the risk to purchase it without a single full road test having been done on the car. Kind of a no risk opportunity to try the car out and see if you like it. Yes, that's a luxury that doesn't exist with most cars, but this isn't "most" cars. Kind of tough to determine if you really will be happy with a car when you don't have the opportunity to even sit in one, let alone not be able to drive it first.

Maybe should check the facts before posting a bunch of accusations that are false. Just a suggestion.

 

[TEG]

I'm just curious, how does what someone does with the car they own result in you having to wait longer for your car? Are you saying Tesla would build cars faster if the guy that took delivery 3 weeks ago chose to keep his car instead of choosing to sell it? What am I missing?

If those opportunists didn't buy a model 3 at all I would get one sooner. Tesla can only build them so fast right now.
It really looks to me like they bought it with the intention of flipping it for a profit. They will sell it to someone who didn't wait in line. So they will let someone with more $ buy their way in front of the faithful / line waiters.

Also, how does it void the tax credit? Is there something that says the tax credit is void if you choose to sell your car after you bought it? Seems like the original owner would still get the tax credit unless he's a dealer, where you're not supposed to purchase with the intent to sell. But no rule against buying the car, driving it, then deciding you don't want it and then choose to sell it.

Instructions for Form 8936 (2016) | Internal Revenue Service

"

• You are the owner of the vehicle...
• The original use of the vehicle began with you.
• You acquired the vehicle for use or to lease to others, and not for resale.
  "

So if you are not the original owner you don't qualify.... And if the original owner bought if for resale they don't qualify. So tax credit voided.
( Wouldn't the IRS consider it "acquired for resale" if it was resold almost immediately at a large profit?
If one of those original buyers tried to claim the credit, couldn't the IRS see that someone else now owns the car? )

Also, where did you get the information that these are all employees? Based on VINs of each one, they are not early number employee cars.

I said employees or previous owners... As in those who bought a Tesla vehicle before the Model 3. As far as I know, only employees and previous-owners have been invited to buy so far.

And, your saying these guys didn't have to wait in line too?

No, I didn't say that. I think they were either employees ( or their relatives), or previous owners who did wait in line. My point is that people who didn't wait in line can now get one of these cars before the line waiters get to buy. In other words, those of us who waited in line without even seeing the car over 16 months ago can't even order a car yet, and random people with a lot more $ can just go buy one on ebay now.

Did Tesla allow these guys to skip to the front of the line and buy a bunch of cars?

I don't know who those sellers are. They might be ex employees... Might be previous Tesla owners who waited in line. I assume they were properly given priority by Tesla to buy early. I also heard that employees were told not to sell at a profit, so these seem like either ex employees, previous Tesla owners, or some employees selling anonymously. It would be shocking if Tesla was selling to dealers/brokers already...

All the VINs are over 1,000. Employee cars were under 1,000 numbered cars.

Where do you get that information? I had heard that some employees still hadn't ordered their Model 3s yet.

If they're existing Tesla owners, they had to wait in line just like everyone else. Being that Tesla chose not to put this car in it's stores, nor let anyone drive them or get inside of them before making the commitment to buy one, isn't it just possible that the Tesla supporters (existing owners) made reservations on blind faith for Tesla only to get the car and decide it's not for them?

Yep, that is possible. But then why ask for such a big markup? And it is a shame that the tax credit can't be used.

 

[TEG]

By the way, none of those ebay listings say "changed my mind"... "ended up not liking the car"... or anything like that.
They basically just say "here is your chance to get it without having to wait 18 months."
Sounds to me like people trying to flip for a profit, not someone who thought they wanted it but changed their mind.

 

[TEG]

...isn't it just possible that the Tesla supporters (existing owners) made reservations on blind faith for Tesla only to get the car and decide it's not for them?

You think all of these listings are from people that wanted the car, then after driving it they decided it wasn't for them?
Is there something wrong with the car that is making all these people put it right back up for sale almost immediately after they pick it up?

Tesla also let you order 2... Some of these may have been buy one for myself, and flip/scalp the other one.

 

[Kenriko]

Is there something wrong with the car that is making all these people put it right back up for sale almost immediately after they pick it up?

Yes his name is Benjamin, Benjamin Franklin.

 

[luvnMyTS]

If you read this article about an existing owner who's driving his car and the problems he's having with it, then yes, it's certainly possible that problems with the car are turning them away. Or as I already stated, they've simply discovered that the Model 3 is too bare bones for them after being used to the features in an S or X.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-owner-on-cross-country-road-trip-has-alre-1821646237

And all your list tells me is that, if I were an auto appraiser, the market value of the Model 3 right now on the open market is around $75,000. At least based on all the pricing you've laid out. Last I checked, things we list for sale in America do sell for market value. Have you ever sold your house? A car? anything else on Ebay? Didn't you sell it for what someone was willing to pay for it? That my friend is called, selling something at market value.

 

[harry]

I just don't understand the attitude that it is somehow wrong to sell something at a profit. Do none of us have stocks which we expect to increase in value before we sell? Do none of us invest in real estate expecting a profit on sale? Do none of us work for corporations which routinely sell products above their cost? I doubt very much if any of us can live without engaging in profit making transactions.

As for someone who resells somehow interfering with the time frame in which you will get your Model 3, that just doesn't make any sense. Every buyer who is getting a Model 3 delivered right now either stood in line for hours or otherwise took some trouble to get a reservation and deposit money put down. When they get their cars, how can it possibly matter what they do with them. Some people will inevitably have crashes and total their new cars. Some might give theirs away to family members. What they do with their car has zero effect on when you get yours.

Tax issues? Good grief! The expectation that someone who sells a Model 3 is planning to evade taxes is just totally without basis.

Personally, I am glad to see some Model 3's being offered. It should be informative in terms of how much non-fan base demand there is in the market right now. Maybe none of these current offerings will sell. If they don't then we will know something about the market that we didn't previously.

 

[daniel]

None of those eBay listings have gotten any bids yet. These folks are either going to keep their cars, or sell them at a loss. When something is really new and original and the supply is limited, there is a market for re-sell at a profit. The Model 3 is new and in limited supply, but with the Model S out there, bigger and in many ways a better car, someone who is willing to spend the inflated price these scalpers are asking for a 3 will likely buy an S instead. The Model 3 is not unique. It's just a more affordable EV. With an extra twenty or thirty thousand dollars added to the price, it's no longer so affordable, and it loses its appeal against a Model S.

Here's my guess: A few owners, reading speculations about a re-sell market at fabulous prices, have said to themselves: "Hey, this is a great car, and I love it, but if someone will give me $20K or $30K more than I paid, I'll let go of it and wait until I can get another." So they put it on eBay. Not expecting to sell it, perhaps, but just to see if anyone is really willing to pay that much.

My guess is, nobody will.

If 100 line-waiters only waited in line to try to cash in on a re-sell opportunity, once production ramps up that won't even be a full day's delay in delivery for the rest of us.

I'm still glad the OP posted this, because I'm curious to see if anybody actually buys any of those cars. It will surprise me if ten people buy scalped Model 3's in order to get this car early. I would buy a used Model 3 today for $32,500 below retail price. $25K for depreciation, $7.5K for the lost tax credit. Otherwise I'll wait my turn.

 

[TEG]

It seems to be the way any hot new product works these days. People try to get in early to resell for a quick profit.
It is like when tickets go on sale for a popular concert and all the good seats are gone moments after the tickets go on sale.
People make a business out of this stuff by becoming "scalpers" you have to go through to get what you want.
I think Tesla made an effort to minimize this effect, but it still happens anyways.

I wonder just how many people waited in line simply because they thought it was an opportunity to make some money reselling it.

 

[TEG]

None of those eBay listings have gotten any bids yet...

I was only giving some examples of active listings, not ones that had completed...

For instance, look at this one:
2018 Tesla Model 3 Premium | eBay

And:
2017 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | eBay

5YJ3E1EA9HF001263

 

[Akikiki]

I bet a $1 that ALL these people are selling their brand spanking new Model 3 because they think the Backup Camera is not as good as a Model S. There - said it. Now no more need for speculation like these people are trying to make a quick buck so they can go buy a Model S/X.

 

[N5329K]

The eBay cars on offer say nothing about the market value of a flipped Model 3. They say much more about the hopes and greed of the sellers.
What they actually sell for, that might be sort of interesting.
Robin

 

[TEG]

Early Tesla Model 3 owners are testing the market with insane resale prices

 

[Austindude]

I'm so far back in line I probably won't get my Model 3 until 2019 but when I do get it you can buy it for $80,000. Just saying....

 

[dhanson865]

And all your list tells me is that, if I were an auto appraiser, the market value of the Model 3 right now on the open market is around $75,000. At least based on all the pricing you've laid out. Last I checked, things we list for sale in America do sell for market value. Have you ever sold your house? A car? anything else on Ebay? Didn't you sell it for what someone was willing to pay for it? That my friend is called, selling something at market value.

If you were an appraiser you'd be ruled incompetent. You see, an asking price doesn't guarantee a sale and the sale price of a home almost never equals the asking price.

All his list did was show you asking prices. No guarantee any of those will sell or that any of them will get the asking price when they do sell.

If it was that easy and yet every one else wasn't doing it, I'd list my sub $200,000 home for $420,000, sell it and by the house down the street for sub $200,000 and pocket the change. The catch is either A. I wouldn't get $420,000 for it or B. I wouldn't be able to buy the house down the street for sub $200,000.

 

[DFibRL8R]

I wouldn't be surprised if these get snapped up by:
1) Other automakers looking to reverse engineer
2) Wealthy buyers looking for a car almost no one else has yet, especially overseas. Sure you can drop 125k on a fully loaded S or X but at the moment, the Model 3 is a much more exclusive club.

I agree that folks should do what they want with the cars. Drive the hell out of it, keep in in a garage in pristine condition and never drive it, race it on the track, crash it, flip it for a profit...why should we care/judge how someone chooses to use their property as long as it is legal?