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Progressives that don't understand why some Independents / Centrist Democrats won't support Sanders should get a clue.
Especially since that group is a larger voting block than the Progressives.
I am progressive and would prefer that sort of candidate. But that data has always been clear:
Sanders was never getting more than 40% of the vote in democratic primaries across all states. That wasn't suddenly going to go up massively because of the fundamental split between the progressive / centrist wings of the party.
It only appeared Sanders had a chance because the centrist vote was split among a whole bunch of candidates. While I agree the DNC can go walk off a cliff, they are not the cause of this.
All the data to go by, including voter turnout in primaries, shows Biden as a better chance to beat Trump than Sanders.
I am flabbergasted by folks still pining for Sanders, posting criticisms of Biden, all while actually preferring him to Trump. As I said a week ago, Sanders is done.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Sanders is done. It's a combination of his refusal to go after the corruption in the DNC and his friend, Joe Biden. Also, he made several errors when he could have focused on a few core issues (M4A, Wars, GND) where there is majority support among Democratic voters. Instead, he decided to defend Castro, open the borders, and give health benefits to illegal aliens. I think AOC actually hurt Bernie by pulling him too far to the left on many social issues. Bernie's strengths were when he focused on the rigged economy against the average worker.
For most of the primary, Sanders was polling better than Biden in the states that needed to be flipped.
I'll be curious to see how much of his policies will make it into the platform. Also, what will Dems say if Biden loses? Bernie will be blamed either way.
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As pointed out AOC is too young. 35 is the minimum age and she turns 35 October 2024. John Breckinridge became VP at 36 and Richard Nixon at 40. So dipping into the very young pool would not be unprecedented.
I'm sure Stacy Abrahms would be the killer choice, but she's focused on reforming Georgia politics. Having some executive experience on the ticket would probably be a plus. He could look at large city mayors and governors. Kate Brown of Oregon is white, but has been governor since 2015 and was Secretary of State for 6 years before that. She was an military brat born in Spain, is openly bisexual. Her positions are moderate for Oregon, but while not AOC level liberal, are on the liberal end by national standards.
The current mayor of San Fransisco is an African American woman and runs one of the most progressive cities in the country. Former mayors of SF include Gavin Newsom and Dianne Feinstein.
If you want to look at current and recent members of Congress. Here are the ideology scores for 2018 (pre-election) and 2019:
Report Cards for 2018 - Ideology Score - All Representatives - GovTrack.us
Report Cards for 2019 - Ideology Score - All Representatives - GovTrack.us
AOC has an ideology score of 0.09 and ranks #421 out of 437. There are a number of other women on that end of the spectrum.
Here is the same site's analysis of Biden:
Joseph Biden Jr., former Vice President of the United States (and President of the Senate) - GovTrack.us
They rank him in a chart of the 2008 Senate where his ideology score was around 0.35 and his leadership score was near the top of the pack.
Presidential candidates pick their VPs for one of three reasons: to win their party's nomination in a close convention fight, to win in November, or to help govern. In modern times picking the VP to get the nomination has fallen away in favor of on of the other two. The ideal would be a bit of both.
Biden was the bit of both for Obama for example. Obama was facing criticism for being too young, so he had to pick an older VP, but Biden also had a hands on role in the Obama White House.
Sarah Palin was chosen to try and help McCain win in November. If Trump drops Pence in favor of Nikki Haley that will be the same move. Pence in the first place was a choice to help Trump solidify the religious right vote in 2016 as well as the more traditional conservatives who wanted some experience on the ticket.
When it comes time to pick a VP for Biden, a lot will depend on how wounded Trump looks, and in general how the political landscape looks. With Trump everything is a moving target. The stock market had a good day today, but it looks to me like a dead cat bounce and it will continue to be bearish for the foreseeable future.
COVID-19 is shaping up to be Trump's Katrina, even more so. It's a much slower moving disaster, but Trump is doing the wrong thing at every turn. It will get worse, but how extreme is yet to be seen. Experiences in other countries shows a quick and decisive response can shut this down fairly quickly, but government mismanagement allows it to spread uncontrolled and can become a problem for cohesion of the entire society fairly quickly.
If it looks like the GOP's mismanagement is going to lead to big losses this fall, Biden will likely pick someone to help govern only with little regard to helping him in November. But he will also know that Congress will likely grow more liberal in a GOP collapse election and he will need someone who is left of him. On the other hand if he wants to run up the Senate score in the fall, he can pick someone who can go to reddish states and campaign there possibly putting more GOP Senators in jeopardy.
If Trump looks viable by the convention, Biden definitely needs to pick someone to help him get elected. He already has the center sown up, so he will look for someone more liberal as a VP. Demographics of the VP choice will be an issue here too. A person of color, a woman, LBGTQ, etc.
I think he wants to pick a woman in part to help him with female voters, but he also feels personally it's time for a woman at the top levels of government. It's possible the VP choice will be male, but I think Biden strongly wants a woman on the ticket.
While the economic issues are important to Democrats, getting rid of Trump is a more burning issue and Biden talked about that more than most of the candidates. To those who wanted Trump gone first and foremost all the other policy discussions seemed like arguing about where the deck chairs went on the sinking Titanic.
How deep into the line-up could Biden responsibly reach? I was favorably impressed with Kirsten Gillibrand, for a number of reasons: her backbone in calling out Al Franken, her refusal to accept PAC donations, her stance as a moderate on the standard issues of importance to the Democrat base. Her performance in the early base was, in a nutshell, poor and her early departure from the field was partly in recognition of that, as well her contiguous bad poll numbers.
That said - that parallels Biden's early performance in many ways, although he consistently had good funding.
Anyway, that is one example. Who has other possibilities? Does anyone agree with @wdolson that Stacy Abrams has taken herself out of the running?
That said - that parallels Biden's early performance in many ways, although he consistently had good funding.
Anyway, that is one example. Who has other possibilities? Does anyone agree with @wdolson that Stacy Abrams has taken herself out of the running?
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adiggs
Well-Known Member
I remember her saying specifically that she wasn't interested in a VP slot, really early on. I also remember it didn't sound like a politician being coy, or suggesting the opposite of the words.
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
I think I will try to stay in this thread, not because I like politics or I think I am RIGHT; while I am right brained, I do not always think I am right; however, everything is politically related. Sometimes my being right is like the cartoon character running out beyond the ground; then notices there is no ground underneath his/her feet and then drops like a rock. There is a distinct reason why I cling to my past ~ a dyed in the wool soldier. Yes, I was supposed to fade away, but failed to acknowledge the memo. There are lots of cliches that might fit me. I am not a war hero! But I have stared down fear all my life and have way too many "sucking chest" wounds to prove my point. I am absolutely NO ONE, and do not care about being destine for greatness ~ just not my cup of tea or decaf. I do what I do because I enjoy a good challenge and want to succeed despite the blood bath getting there. I observe live as a person that works/ed for a living (enlisted statement). I jump up and down like Donkey and all some people see is a jackass
gD it ~ my cruise was just cancelled
We have a golden opportunity to see what is behind the curtain. It is ugly and probably means that democracy never existed. As always I am trying to hold up what my small footprint can handle for democracy.
This scenario (virus fear) is similar to what will happen as structures (social network) collapse due to climate change. We got a taste during the George W failure. We are not prepared, we are not funded and, and. . .
There will be more deaths due to collateral damage ~ not just the virus. We are dependent on a system of war cowards or paper tigers.
There is at least one religion that has 111 billion stashed away that will never see the light of day helping the human race ~ period.
The only way out of here is ~ well you would not like my scenario.
Wash your hands please
gD it ~ my cruise was just cancelled
We have a golden opportunity to see what is behind the curtain. It is ugly and probably means that democracy never existed. As always I am trying to hold up what my small footprint can handle for democracy.
This scenario (virus fear) is similar to what will happen as structures (social network) collapse due to climate change. We got a taste during the George W failure. We are not prepared, we are not funded and, and. . .
There will be more deaths due to collateral damage ~ not just the virus. We are dependent on a system of war cowards or paper tigers.
There is at least one religion that has 111 billion stashed away that will never see the light of day helping the human race ~ period.
The only way out of here is ~ well you would not like my scenario.
Wash your hands please
Sanders was polling better than Biden when there were other moderate candidates in the field.
My wild and crazy out there VP picks:
Deval Patrick: ex Governor of Mass. Probably ran for pres. just to be remembered for VP Still, a nice solid choice.
Gabby Giffords: Drive the NRA crazy. If she's up to it. Her hubby may win a Senate seat, might as well both move to DC.
Valerie Plame: Still pissed at the NeoCons. Probably better choice for DNI than VP. Running for congress.
Tammy Duckworth. Disabled female of color veteran. That ticks a lot of boxes.
Deval Patrick: ex Governor of Mass. Probably ran for pres. just to be remembered for VP Still, a nice solid choice.
Gabby Giffords: Drive the NRA crazy. If she's up to it. Her hubby may win a Senate seat, might as well both move to DC.
Valerie Plame: Still pissed at the NeoCons. Probably better choice for DNI than VP. Running for congress.
Tammy Duckworth. Disabled female of color veteran. That ticks a lot of boxes.
Keep them coming. Some interesting possibilities to choose from.
Another thought I have had - not an especially original one - is the extent to which the now-retired candidates would be wanted in and would want to join in a Biden cabinet. If so, who where?
Also not unknown in politer times past was to have opposite party members in a cabinet. Former OMB head and quite left-of-GOP-center is Ohio senator Rob Portman. Now, in the last four years he has only on safe occasions, as far as I have monitored, wandered from #45's thrall but that does not, unfortunately, cast him as untouchable. His passion for controlling the opioid epidemic certainly is worthy.
Another thought I have had - not an especially original one - is the extent to which the now-retired candidates would be wanted in and would want to join in a Biden cabinet. If so, who where?
Also not unknown in politer times past was to have opposite party members in a cabinet. Former OMB head and quite left-of-GOP-center is Ohio senator Rob Portman. Now, in the last four years he has only on safe occasions, as far as I have monitored, wandered from #45's thrall but that does not, unfortunately, cast him as untouchable. His passion for controlling the opioid epidemic certainly is worthy.
Often used as a means of opening up a seat in Senate/Congress by taking the incumbent out of play, esp where the replacement is elected not appointed. Maybe a Republican congress critter, as the house is fairly safe...are there any worthy? Senate is just too close to 50:50 for them to play that game.
That said, you really wanna go crazy? Romney for VP.
Louisiana postpones primary Louisiana postpones primary as states scramble to adjust to coronavirus
Will Trump try to 'postpone' the November election in the name of a National emergency?
I think he would if he could. Could he?
Will Trump try to 'postpone' the November election in the name of a National emergency?
I think he would if he could. Could he?
He will be dead from COVID-19 by then.
White House physician: Trump doesn't require test or quarantine after exposure to 2 people with coronavirus
I hope not. Only because there has to be a referendum this fall where he, his thinking and his supporters are roundly rejected. The US has to prove it knows the difference between right and wrong.
It appears I was writing from old information on Stacey Abrams. I recalled about a year ago she was asked if she would accept the VP slot and she said she was focused on reforming Georgia, but a couple of weeks ago she said she would accept the VP slot if offered:
Stacey Abrams on being VP pick: 'Of course I want it'
Living with a lawyer who is a constitutional geek and hangs out of Twitter with like minded lawyers, they kicked that around a few weeks back and the definitive answer was elections are run by the individual states and the federal government has no direct control over how elections are held beyond what is in the constitution. The president has no power to stop or postpone an election.
There is a move on for every state to adopt the vote by mail method used by a few states now across the country. Some states might do it as an emergency method. There is no requirement that states pick their electors by popular vote, though that's the way it's been done in living memory. The original method of choosing electors was by the state legislature but most state started going with the popular vote early on. South Carolina though kept up the practice of picking them with the legislature until 1960.
It is possible some states will call off their elections and have the legislature choose the electoral college representatives, but I would expect this to be more common in Republican dominated states. Especially if Trump is polling very badly.
About the only guarantee is that this year will continue to have things happen that never happened before.
Pretty sure she would be better in Georgia. That election was stolen from her by kemp
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
If it was stolen, why did she concede and not take it to the courts? Asking for a friend . . .
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
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