Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[Jigglypuff]

So many naysayers. Tesla has an army of the best brains, and mountains of cash. Two years tops.

Lots of brains and lots of cash does not equal success. It helps, sure.

I’m curious as to whether Tesla will be the first. I would hope so, but they do have a finite window before other manufacturers begin to catch up. What is a novelty now will be commonplace before too long.

Tesla will certainly be the first to claim something, but they won't be the first to achieve anything special in self-driving other than pushing a product to market far too early.

But the thing is, Tesla is behind all the other major players. Why? Everyone else has better strategies to get to L4 and beyond. Tesla was ahead early on, getting the basics of staying in the lane and following at an appropriate distance while on the freeway. Tesla took the low hanging fruit, and good for them. However, the system is just awful at pretty much everything else. From Guidehouse:

I think Guidehouse probably got it right.

2045 is an optimistic timeframe for L4 or L5 from Waymo and similar, with Tesla far behind.

Speech to text is still mediocre to awful across the board. Oh, if you speak slowly and enunciate, it's OK until there's a homophone. Then it's a clustercluck. How about two homophones in a row? Oh dear. Now try speaking at a normal speed, without extra enunciation.

And speech to text is a far easier problem than computer vision and decision-making in a car.

Tesla tries to solve the problem with cheap sensors and semi-expensive processing, essentially believing in the religion of neural nets. Actual L5 self-driving cars are likely going to take not only a lot more sensors, and some expensive ones at that, but also a several orders of magnitude increase in processing power. No relatively simple algorithm is going to solve this multi-faceted puzzle.

Either there's going to be some genius AI breakthrough from somebody, which is possible but unlikely, or there's just going to need to be oodles and oodles of processing, with the problem broken down into countless tiny steps and sensors, all orchestrated together.

 

[jebinc]

Yes they do but they are limited by decisions made years ago on camera location that looks increasingly like the achilles heel of FSD.
A good example is leaving my neighborhood. In order for the B pillar to see if cars are coming from the left the car has to stick out into the road impeding traffic in both directions. I lean as close to the A pillar as possible with my foot over the brake. If I didn't I would already have been in an accident. I'm trying to figure out how the best minds at Tesla and the neural network solve a camera location problem they likely didn't have any input on. That and winter snow and ice will limit FSD. I hope I'm wrong.

Hardware change, as mentioned earlier by one of those “naysayers”….

 

[Oil Freedom]

I’m curious as to whether Tesla will be the first. I would hope so, but they do have a finite window before other manufacturers begin to catch up. What is a novelty now will be commonplace before too long.

I think Tesla will be first for a truly scalable solution in terms of lower vehicle cost (no LIDAR or RADAR) and where the solution can operate (doesn't require detailed pre-mapping, etc.).

 

[Oil Freedom]

I think Guidehouse probably got it right.

That's interesting, and there are certainly lots of serious players in this field. However, I doubt it fully considers the rate at which AI can develop, particularly with Tesla's massive data intake and their approach.

 

[CWhite]

I wonder about the need for 16 sensors, 12 cameras, 2 lidars…. I self-drive pretty well with only 2 cameras(eyes) and one heck of a computer. Would make someone think that the solution could be almost totally on the computing power side of the equation. Of course we could still be 10 years from the computer side coming to fruition.

 

[Nakk]

I am new to FSD Beta so I am focused on paying attention to the road. But I need to start hitting the record button to send clips to Tesla for these issues I am having.

I'm pretty sure that any time you intervene in any way the information gets sent to Tesla. I've seen massive uploads from my car on days that I never hit the camera icon.

 

[Matias]

I wonder about the need for 16 sensors, 12 cameras, 2 lidars…. I self-drive pretty well with only 2 cameras(eyes) and one heck of a computer. Would make someone think that the solution could be almost totally on the computing power side of the equation. Of course we could still be 10 years from the computer side coming to fruition.

Your computer and sensors have been developed during 3.5 billion years.

 

[Wingsy]

I got 10.3.1 last night (my first Beta d/l). I've been on one 20-mile drive mostly along rural roads and one drive of 75% interstate and 25% rural of about 40 miles. To be honest I am really disappointed. I thought that it would at least be functional enough to be useful, but for me it is such a negative experience to drive under the beta that I'll be turning it off. I'm not ready to request that my software be rolled back to pre-beta until I see how 10.4 turns out.

What I experienced: The biggest letdown was phantom braking. Happens more than once per mile on rural roads, some so severe that the seat belt clamps engage. And one event on the interstate that very nearly got me rear-ended. I've lived through the phantom braking problem for2-1/2 years and experienced it get better & better over time, to the point where my wife doesn't complain if I turn on autopilot on the freeway. Even on rural roads autopilot was at the point where it was usable. Not today.

OK, replying to my own post because things have changed, drastically. I went for another 20-mile drive to demo the breathtaking Plaid acceleration to some friends. I also demoed the FSD beta after first warning them that it is beta (maybe alpha) software and it won't do well. Well, it DID do well. Just a couple of minor braking events that weren't very noticeable. It did behave a bit quirky at a stop sign but did well on managing who goes and when. Nothing that embarrassed me. This was along the same roads as my first run. So, what the hell happened????

I'll be driving more with the beta and will pass along my experiences.

 

[TIppy]

Lots of brains and lots of cash does not equal success. It helps, sure.

Tesla will certainly be the first to claim something, but they won't be the first to achieve anything special in self-driving other than pushing a product to market far too early.

But the thing is, Tesla is behind all the other major players. Why? Everyone else has better strategies to get to L4 and beyond. Tesla was ahead early on, getting the basics of staying in the lane and following at an appropriate distance while on the freeway. Tesla took the low hanging fruit, and good for them. However, the system is just awful at pretty much everything else. From Guidehouse:

I think Guidehouse probably got it right.

2045 is an optimistic timeframe for L4 or L5 from Waymo and similar, with Tesla far behind.

Speech to text is still mediocre to awful across the board. Oh, if you speak slowly and enunciate, it's OK until there's a homophone. Then it's a clustercluck. How about two homophones in a row? Oh dear. Now try speaking at a normal speed, without extra enunciation.

And speech to text is a far easier problem than computer vision and decision-making in a car.

Tesla tries to solve the problem with cheap sensors and semi-expensive processing, essentially believing in the religion of neural nets. Actual L5 self-driving cars are likely going to take not only a lot more sensors, and some expensive ones at that, but also a several orders of magnitude increase in processing power. No relatively simple algorithm is going to solve this multi-faceted puzzle.

Either there's going to be some genius AI breakthrough from somebody, which is possible but unlikely, or there's just going to need to be oodles and oodles of processing, with the problem broken down into countless tiny steps and sensors, all orchestrated together.

What is strategy, and how is it ordered? That is, how have they placed them along the horizontal axis?

 

[Wingsy]

On a Model S, where is the "Report" button? (Picture please)

The record button is one level deep in the menus where as before in my M3 it was right there on the top all the time. If I press the camera button that I see along the bottom of the screen I get a message saying I can't preview recordings unless in Park. So how do I report an event to Tesla?

 

[JulienW]

On a Model S, where is the "Report" button? (Picture please)

The record button is one level deep in the menus where as before in my M3 it was right there on the top all the time. If I press the camera button that I see along the bottom of the screen I get a message saying I can't preview recordings unless in Park. So how do I report an event to Tesla?

 

[Wingsy]

View attachment 727704

That's not what you see on a 2021 Model S. There is no row of icons along the top.

 

[JulienW]

That's not what you see on a 2021 Model S. There is no row of icons along the top.

Really???? I clearly see it and don't even have a Model S.

 

[Wingsy]

The button within the red circle says I can't view clips unless in Park and the button within the yellow circle switches to rear view on the screen. The screen above the yoke has no buttons.

 

[vanjwilson]

...

• FSD started to go into the intersection when my light was still red. (first in line) Mistook the light for the intersecting street as our light.
• ...
• Just driving along a road is fine when all FSD has to do is turn.

I also had FSD Beta mistake the light from the intersecting street as its light and start to go. (Westbound on Idlewild Rd. in the screenshot.) Beta got in the left lane--not sure why because route had no left turn before the next right in a mile--and was first in line. Cross-street left turn signals were on at first, and it stopped, but then when cross-street straight lights turned green, it started to go. It was easy enough for me to brake to stop it, but still disappointing. Also, it was before sunrise, so all the lights stood out in the dark.

At least I remembered to screenshot it for feedback. Still getting used to that.

Overall, though, I agree with your final point: FSD Beta is as good as, if not a little better than plain Autosteer when you're just driving along.

 

[yayarearunner]

View attachment 727709


View attachment 727710

The button within the red circle says I can't view clips unless in Park and the button within the yellow circle switches to rear view on the screen. The screen above the yoke has no buttons.

Swipe Right from the left side of the screen. The icon is at the top where it is on other models. You will see the message that it is sent to Tesla in the smaller screen in front of the yoke. It's a bit odd and hard to get it. So if you use FSD, you may have to have that menu open and available. Kinda not easy to get to on the refresh S/X.

 

[xEvoLveDx]

 

[jebinc]

That's not what you see on a 2021 Model S. There is no row of icons along the top.

@Wingsy Swipe left to right to open the quick controls page (or push car icon, bottom left). It then can be found at the top of that window.

 

[TIppy]

The car computer on my Mercedes GL550 was located in a tub under the driver's seat. It also had a sunroof who's drain tube was installed incorrectly, so that the tracks would overflow if the car was parked on an incline with the front higher than the rear. During a heavy downpour, the tracks overflowed and the water ran down the b-pillar filling the tub that held the computer. $10,000 dollars to repair. Mercedes' warranty excludes damage caused by the sunroof, even though they don't bring the car in without them. Even though I found a service bulletin about the improperly installed drain tubes, they refused to cover the damage. They graciously covered the lease payment for the several weeks the car was in for repair. Last Mercedes I ever owned.

 

[jebinc]

Shout out to the group - For those recently added beta FSD'ers, how long did it take to get the load, after you completed 100 miles and a SS of 99-100? Next day?