EVNow
Well-Known Member
I think that is mainly to attract as many viewers as possible. I'd disengage if the car does anything I'd find inappropriate.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
kishkaru
Member
I don't have WiFi at home (car is 3 floors underground in the garage). Also no cell service down there. Does that mean I won't qualify for the FSD Beta?
I don't think Tesla is going to let the car upload 10's of GB per day via LTE (AT&T). That would be massive network congestion and AT&T would be pissed.
What about SLOW decisions awaiting turns? Or speed adjustments during turns? Several of these are more timing issues & I’m not sure if that hits the “inappropriate” threshold.
The drivers around me don’t care either way, but it honestly reminded me of the stereotypical “student driver” scenes several times.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
There’s really no benefit to not intervening (except the special case mentioned earlier, maybe), so if it’s not doing the right thing or it is slow, safely push the accelerator or take over, even if it is not impacting anyone. Some have claimed that Tesla does log accelerator overrides (I don’t know). If they did, you would definitely be helping by taking over.
OK, I've got maybe 100 miles under my belt now on FSD Beta. Here's my impressions. The good and then the bad.
Freeway driving is WAY, WAY, WAY better. Lane changes are smooth as are merges from two to one lane and the reverse. Freeway to Freeway interchanges are as good as the best human driver. No more wandering around when the lane widens momentarily. From what I've seen so far, and I really need to see more first to really say this, but from what I saw last night and today--just what I myself saw on my drives--well, freeway driving looks to be at least L3 or maybe even L5 capable. That's what I saw on the freeway, although I saw no construction sites on the freeway. The only issue I had on the freeway is just an annoyance; when diverging from a single lane into two lanes the car always chooses the left lane. After a bit it gets over to the right. It should bias the right lane.
Summon is WAY, WAY better. Wow, It's actually useful now. I'll post a video later, but for now: It confidently pulls out, slows or stops for pedestrians and traffic and handles difficult situations. I parked it in a paved parking lot and summoned it to a gravel parking lot surrounded by boulders. It stopped for a very short bit to figure out how to get in the gravel parking lot, but it figured it out and did an absolutely great job. It even drove out of the "Summon Circle" to get into the gravel parking lot. Wow. This is going to be handy this winter. Is it perfect? No, it still wobbles sometimes choosing a lane. But it is useful and I plan on using it if required to avoid inclement weather.
The parking lot speed limit of 15 is too fast. Yes it slows down for pedestrians, but 10 mph is just saner in a parking lot. That said, FSD Beta 10.2 does a great job finding it's way out of parking lots, and finds it's way to the front door of the store in large parking lots with lots of foot and car traffic. Also, one parking lot is mistakenly identified as a road and defaults to 25 mph.
In some neighborhoods, 25 mph is just way too fast. In my neighborhood, 20 - 22 is appropriate. I'm not sure how neighborhoods will be identified over other 25 mph zone, but 25 is too fast--even if that's the speed limit. Compounding this is that FSD Beta, while it does an excellent job on side streets, biases too far to the right. It passes parked cars too closely when it doesn't need to; if a child runs out from behind a parked car... If you have cars parked on both sides and no oncoming traffic, driving down the center-right side of the road makes sense to increase reaction time. Ideally, you leave enough room for a door to open unexpectedly.
I had to intervene for the one construction zone I drove through, the car got totally confused and it wasn't a bad zone really.
Gates across roads were not recognized both of two times encountered. Intervention required.
Traffic signals are handled with aplomb. Many stop signs are approached with too much timidity.
I think a lot of perceptions--mine included--are skewed by two weeks of driving like a spooked sloth. Country roads I first thought were taken too aggressively I now see as the exact speed I'd drive. I will agree that driving in neighborhoods is too aggressive. Elsewhere, I'm thinking maybe pretty good.
Anyone who thinks FSD isn't making amazing progress is mistaken, IMHO. I was and am amazed. Yes I intervened, no it's not ready for wide release. But just a couple of years ago the drives I took today were the stuff of science fiction. The progress in the last year has been marked and steady. For the first time, I am convinced we will see L5 in the next few years. Maybe sooner if they can do a freeway only L5 release.
Let me add that while amazing, this release should be limited for a while. It can and does do things that you better be on your toes to catch, just as the email we got warned.
Freeway driving is WAY, WAY, WAY better. Lane changes are smooth as are merges from two to one lane and the reverse. Freeway to Freeway interchanges are as good as the best human driver. No more wandering around when the lane widens momentarily. From what I've seen so far, and I really need to see more first to really say this, but from what I saw last night and today--just what I myself saw on my drives--well, freeway driving looks to be at least L3 or maybe even L5 capable. That's what I saw on the freeway, although I saw no construction sites on the freeway. The only issue I had on the freeway is just an annoyance; when diverging from a single lane into two lanes the car always chooses the left lane. After a bit it gets over to the right. It should bias the right lane.
Summon is WAY, WAY better. Wow, It's actually useful now. I'll post a video later, but for now: It confidently pulls out, slows or stops for pedestrians and traffic and handles difficult situations. I parked it in a paved parking lot and summoned it to a gravel parking lot surrounded by boulders. It stopped for a very short bit to figure out how to get in the gravel parking lot, but it figured it out and did an absolutely great job. It even drove out of the "Summon Circle" to get into the gravel parking lot. Wow. This is going to be handy this winter. Is it perfect? No, it still wobbles sometimes choosing a lane. But it is useful and I plan on using it if required to avoid inclement weather.
The parking lot speed limit of 15 is too fast. Yes it slows down for pedestrians, but 10 mph is just saner in a parking lot. That said, FSD Beta 10.2 does a great job finding it's way out of parking lots, and finds it's way to the front door of the store in large parking lots with lots of foot and car traffic. Also, one parking lot is mistakenly identified as a road and defaults to 25 mph.
In some neighborhoods, 25 mph is just way too fast. In my neighborhood, 20 - 22 is appropriate. I'm not sure how neighborhoods will be identified over other 25 mph zone, but 25 is too fast--even if that's the speed limit. Compounding this is that FSD Beta, while it does an excellent job on side streets, biases too far to the right. It passes parked cars too closely when it doesn't need to; if a child runs out from behind a parked car... If you have cars parked on both sides and no oncoming traffic, driving down the center-right side of the road makes sense to increase reaction time. Ideally, you leave enough room for a door to open unexpectedly.
I had to intervene for the one construction zone I drove through, the car got totally confused and it wasn't a bad zone really.
Gates across roads were not recognized both of two times encountered. Intervention required.
Traffic signals are handled with aplomb. Many stop signs are approached with too much timidity.
I think a lot of perceptions--mine included--are skewed by two weeks of driving like a spooked sloth. Country roads I first thought were taken too aggressively I now see as the exact speed I'd drive. I will agree that driving in neighborhoods is too aggressive. Elsewhere, I'm thinking maybe pretty good.
Anyone who thinks FSD isn't making amazing progress is mistaken, IMHO. I was and am amazed. Yes I intervened, no it's not ready for wide release. But just a couple of years ago the drives I took today were the stuff of science fiction. The progress in the last year has been marked and steady. For the first time, I am convinced we will see L5 in the next few years. Maybe sooner if they can do a freeway only L5 release.
Let me add that while amazing, this release should be limited for a while. It can and does do things that you better be on your toes to catch, just as the email we got warned.
Absolutely this. I can't imagine being able to manage a yoke while the wheel is spinning. I let the wheel spin through my fingers, and right now your hand REALLY needs to be on the wheel.
I have sympathy for anyone if they got the 100 score and were omitted, especially if they don’t get an explanation. But the comments that “we paid so much for these cars we deserve to be in the beta” doesn’t do much for me. I bought my S nearly 5 years ago (12/2016) and my 3 nearly 4 years ago (1/2018). I got the beta for my 3 with a 100, but didn’t get it for my S with a 99 score. Excuse me for feeling I am much more deserving of being at the top of the list for my S after waiting five years than someone who bought their car a month ago, even if they did pay a lot more for their car.
Interesting, on this one issue my experience was diametrically opposed to yours. I was passing too close to cars parked on the right side of the road. With cars parked on both sides I think center/right is appropriate to maximize warning of lane intrusions. (assuming no oncoming traffic.)
SLC based? Just wondering if we were the same team? I was SEA based before I did the Covid buyout...
Come on, a spinning yoke was known as Tesla put the “button” firmware on these yoke cars, also when they excluded these same yoke cars, with purchased FSD, from receiving the yoke improvements update (2021.36), in lieu of the “button” release. Lastly, EM knew cars had yokes when he tweeted numerous times that “all” who had a 100 score would get the first release. And lastly, they have remained silent on the issue all day. You can’t defend Tesla’s actions on this one, I’m sorry.
I'm not defending Tesla's actions. I feel for you guys and I think Tesla should have let everyone know from the outset that yoke cars weren't going to be eligible yet. But I do agree that yoke cars should be excluded. That's my opinion only, but I have 35 years professional experience with a yoke, so I know yokes. (Military and airline pilot.) In my professional opinion, FSD Beta is not ready yet for a yoke car. I am more optimistic than others in that I think soon it will be. That's my opinion. Perhaps if I drove a Plaid I'd change my mind; I can only go by the experience I have.
I took beta for a spin this afternoon. Basically, I would never trust it to make unprotected turns. It’s just a huge disaster. Other than that it is pretty good. It does residential road to residential road just fine and whoever there is a stoplight it seems to do fine.
One thing I don’t like is that if you do disengage the steering, it doesn’t disengage the acceleration. I know this is by design but it likes to whip it around corners and it accelerates at a pretty good clip so if you are trying to steer out of an issue the continued acceleration is a little unexpected, sense as a human driver when you encounter an issue your natural instinct is to take the foot off the gas. I understand this is how autopilot has always worked, but the city streets are a lot different than the interstate.
One thing I don’t like is that if you do disengage the steering, it doesn’t disengage the acceleration. I know this is by design but it likes to whip it around corners and it accelerates at a pretty good clip so if you are trying to steer out of an issue the continued acceleration is a little unexpected, sense as a human driver when you encounter an issue your natural instinct is to take the foot off the gas. I understand this is how autopilot has always worked, but the city streets are a lot different than the interstate.
I'm not convinced that a spinning yoke ON FSD BETA would be hard to disengage. If you were going off-road, and the yoke was turning due to the wheels being turned by the terrain, then yes, absolutely, you can break fingers or wrists. But the torque that's programmed to disengage AP/FSD is very slight....
I can't prove this, but it seems that the AP/FSD torque threshold is reduced when the car is in a less confident state. Sometimes I'm barely touching the wheel and it disengages.
I can't prove this, but it seems that the AP/FSD torque threshold is reduced when the car is in a less confident state. Sometimes I'm barely touching the wheel and it disengages.
I didn’t single you out, as I didn’t address this to you via tag. I do agree with all of your points, and posted long ago that I didn’t thing these cars would get early releases - but that was before they surprised me by loading the “button” on my car and excluding my car afterwards from the much needed yoke improvement updates. Then, they wasted all yokers time and patience for two plus weeks gaming the damn safety score - only to hose us a third time by silently excluding all of us today. Complete horshite.
Edit: I’m willing to wager Tesla kept and will be using all of the data I gave them permission to collect while this fool was driving 1200 miles over two plus weeks to maintain a 100 score for no reason!
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For me to have an absolutely firm opinion, I'd have to try beta with a plaid. My current opinion is not a good idea for FSD Beta with a yoke, but I'm not going to state that opinion with certainty without actually trying it. With what experience I have, my guess is that someone at Tesla tried it and said "Not yet." Maybe I'm wrong and it's coming soon...
I assumed you were addressing me since you quoted me. No worries. Regardless, I can't argue with anything in your post. I know it sucks because I know how stressful it was to qualify for this.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I don't see how you would know where to grab if you had take over mid turn. It seems like one your hands might grab air which is not great for control.
I don't see how they can not release FSD Beta to the yoke though, that would be a huge embarrassment if the goal is wide release of beta software.
So, they forced only a yoke on these new cars, yet FSD (beta or otherwise) will have a spinning yoke that can’t be handled. Yeah, that makes complete sense to me… like, will there ever not be a spinning yoke with any release of FSD?
Why did they take $10,000 for FSD on these yoke cars then, if a spinning yoke can’t be handled? Complete nonsense. Why the silence, probably because they realized they are exposed and the lawyers told them it’s best to remain silent.
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