Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[TIppy]

I watched a lot of the FSD Beta videos, and It's pretty much as I expected it would be. You are a passenger now and don't know when the brakes will be applied or the wheel turned, so that heightens the lack of smoothness you perceive.

 

[Yuri_G]

It could be based on each persons expectations or certain cars just do better or worse than others. My personal experience has been amazing. I’ve had to disconnect on many occasions but mostly for not wanting to let the car hold up others while it thinks, plus it’s done some dangerous things ( if you were not paying attention in complex situations) . I put very little stock in youtubers videos now. I might watch a few where they test the progression in Complex situations but not much else.

This, in addition to areas where FSD has little training will likely fair worse (Boston, Southwest Utah, etc).

 

[queue]

has anyone been booted/removed from the FSD/Beta yet? I'm curious what the criteria is before I stomp all over it inadvertently.

 

[powertoold]

I watched a lot of the FSD Beta videos, and It's pretty much as I expected it would be. You are a passenger now and don't know when the brakes will be applied or the wheel turned, so that heightens the lack of smoothness you perceive.

Yup, and if you only watched whole Mars videos, then you'd be in for a surprise lol

 

[flyhighboi20]

I try not to watch the videos of youtuber wannabes. It's pretty clear who is producing good content and who is trying too hard. If you see people posting unsafe or unnecessarily dramatic events, give them a thumbs down. Also know that some of us who got it are taking the testing seriously.

I know that probably a lot of people are taking it seriously and being safe and understand it. The scary thing with something like FSD beta is that its just going to take one really bad accident and the media is going to go crazy and there will be stories about how this "proves" all kinds of stuff they have been saying. We just live in a society where often personal accountability doesn't get focused on. A Tesla hits a parked emergency vehicle with all their lights flashing and its the cars fault, someone gets in a Tesla so drunk they are passing out behind the wheel and its the cars fault. Same thing happens with guns, vaping and many other things we blame the tool instead of looking at the idiot who did the stupid thing or allowed the stupid thing to happen. The call is always the same "we should ban X thing from the population because a person did something stupid with it" Also as a side note, not that it really matters or that you would probably care what I think but, thank you for taking it seriously us "99'ers" and investors appreciate it lol

 

[jebinc]

I’ve glanced at my videos to see what I do with my hands.

For turns where the wheel turns less than 90 degrees, I move my hand with the wheel, keeping my hand at the 9-10 o’clock position (on the wheel). So on a left turn at this point my hand is at the bottom, in my lap, attached to wheel 10 o’clock. When the wheel turns more than that, I loosen my left hand (the wheel starts to spin through it) and place my other hand on the other side of the wheel as well, at the 3 o’clock position, so the wheel is spinning through both. That way I can simply clamp at any time with both hands, and take immediate steering control. Most of the time my hands are at 9-10 and 2-3, or perhaps just at 9 in less complicated scenarios.

It will be difficult to do the same thing with a yoke. Some other strategy will be needed, and it won’t be possible to let the wheel slide through your hand smoothly. But, I suppose people with the yoke would already be adapting to this in some way, because the same thing happens on manual control, after a turn, when the steering straightens up. Don’t know what yoke owners are doing in this case right now, to keep both hands firmly on the wheel. Do they just let go of the wheel entirely some of the time? Or do they just do rapid and repetitive hand repositioning to have at least one hand in contact with the yoke at all times? (It seems like you’d have to double up hands, reposition a hand, and repeat as the yoke spins.) I guess there are tons of videos out there showing how it works but have not been paying close attention. Watched a couple…some drivers slide along the flats. Will be interesting to see how this goes, but humans are very adaptable!

Does anyone else find it strange that the yoke seems to be creating more problems for Tesla than it solves? Lest us all remember, EM and Tesla were reticent that the yoke was it, no options for a wheel. And yet, here we all are sitting around trying to find a way to explain/justify why the yoke may not work well with FSD (i.e., a high speed spinning and irregular shaped yoke), and what may have to change to accommodate the monitory yoke. Amazing, really.... you can't make this stuff up!

 

[Sporty]

Does anyone else find it strange that the yoke seems to be creating more problems for Tesla than it solves? Lest us all remember, EM and Tesla were reticent that the yoke was it, no options for a wheel. And yet, here we all are sitting around trying to find a way to explain/justify why the yoke may not work well with FSD (i.e., a high speed spinning and irregular shaped yoke), and what may have to change to accommodate the monitory yoke. Amazing, really.... you can't make this stuff up!

Tesla shop needs to start selling steering wheels.

 

[TresLA]

Given the tons of info it's uploading at night, I would guess that it's caching all it can and uploading it over wifi at night.

Does anyone know if data uploads while on cellular AFTER completing a drive? I don’t have WiFi regularly available so I’m curious if anything I’m testing is getting uploaded. In case you’re wondering, I usually use my phones personal hotspot for OTA updates, but with a 15GB monthly quota, this doesn’t sound like a good solution for FSD beta data uploads.

 

[MrWolf]

My theory is that the driver always runs a delta between how they would drive and how the car is driving. I asked a passenger about the experience, and she didn't seem to mind much at all (Passengers don't know what the driver / fsd delta is...)

That said - I have had 2 short trips lately with no disengagements... Car was nearly perfect for those two.

I still disengage proactively sometimes because I prefer to be the driver in certain situations - but as it gets better, I expect I'll be more open to letting the FSD drive instead.

 

[EVNow]

Yes, isn’t the modified auto high beams behavior part of Tesla Vision? These changes will remain (I think!) even after completely disabling FSD Beta in the menus, because it looks like the car will still use Tesla Vision even if it has radar, when the Beta is disabled.

Disabling or enabling FSD only affects the features (planner, I guess). It still using the same Neural Network. Radar has been completely removed from NN.

 

[jebinc]

Yup, and if you only watched whole Mars videos, then you'd be in for a surprise lol

I think Mars is a shill. I base that harsh assessment on a twitter exchange I had with him last night, re Tesla's exclusion of refreshed Model S yoke cars from the initial release of the beta FSD program. On numerous occasions, he replied that it was released, and pointed everyone following him to the one EAP/NDA tester that posted a picture (heavily published here on TMC yesterday). Of course, I reminded Mars that you can't count the EAP/NDA tester (with a 95 safety score) running a non public release of the software (.26) as proof that refreshed MS yoke cars where indeed included in the public release... His retort was, "is that not a refresh S with a yoke".... He never responded after I called him out again on his intentional redirect PR efforts, by repeatedly citing the EAP/NDA tester as proof that refreshed S's were included in the "public release."

Again, I had no opinion of Mars prior to this interaction, but definitely have one now. YOMV; where "O" = Opinion
@omarsultan @Ryan27 @MarcG @Venom @EVNow @Phlier

 

[EVNow]

Again, nobody was behind me so I let it go,

Its obviously ok to let it go and see what it does once in a while - but you do want to intervene to tell Tesla something wrong is happening at that point.

 

[Kingoglow]

I watched a lot of the FSD Beta videos, and It's pretty much as I expected it would be. You are a passenger now and don't know when the brakes will be applied or the wheel turned, so that heightens the lack of smoothness you perceive.

The thing that surprises me most about FSD is how much it relies on the brakes instead of regenerative braking. A lot of people have learned how to drive with one pedal, regenerative braking; only applying the actual brakes if I misgauge the situation. FSD is all about chewing up my brake pads. If the vision only system is supposed to emulate how drivers perceive the road and how we react, I have to wonder why the FSD system can't replicate the behavior of using regenerative braking.

 

[EVNow]

He never responded after I called him out again on his intentional redirect PR efforts, by repeatedly citing the EAP/NDA tester as proof that refreshed S's were included in the "public release."

Link the tweet - I'll respond to him.

Basically - even if Vincent was a "public" tester and was included - it still meant a lot of others who should have been included based on the score and mileage criteria have not been included. "whole Mars" is doing themselves disservice by ignoring the obvious.

 

[EVNow]

I would feel better about FSD if it could return me to my house I live on a 100 yard small residential road and it cannot make the turn at either end. Not even close. I have to back up and take the turn myself but I will remain the optimist.

How is it represented in Openstreetmap ? If its not there - add to the map.

 

[powertoold]

The thing that surprises me most about FSD is how much it relies on the brakes instead of regenerative braking. A lot of people have learned how to drive with one pedal, regenerative braking; only applying the actual brakes if I misgauge the situation. FSD is all about chewing up my brake pads. If the vision only system is supposed to emulate how drivers perceive the road and how we react, I have to wonder why the FSD system can't replicate the behavior of using regenerative braking.

All these optimization issues will come with time. Right now, the goal is to have it drive safely to the destination. Then, comfort will be addressed. After that, they can optimize efficiency and whatnot.

 

[jebinc]

Link the tweet - I'll respond to him.

Basically - even if Vincent was a "public" tester and was included - it still meant a lot of others who should have been included based on the score and mileage criteria have not been included. "whole Mars" is doing themselves disservice by ignoring the obvious.

@EVNow DM sent.

 

[powertoold]

I base that harsh assessment on a twitter exchange I had with him last night, re Tesla's exclusion of refreshed Model S yoke cars from the initial release of the beta FSD program.

I also don't take whole Mars seriously. He enjoys triggering the community (in positive and negative directions).

But I think Tesla excluded yokes in general because of how new and untested it is as it relates to fsd beta. Vincent has used fsd for a year, so he's better suited. Just imo.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Disabling or enabling FSD only affects the features (planner, I guess). It still using the same Neural Network. Radar has been completely removed from NN.

Yes. A regression for sure, as mentioned earlier. Hopefully not too long-lasting, though I could see including radar again as being low priority in spite of the substantial safety improvement. Hopefully feature-wise they can bring it to parity even if they don’t use the radar. Not a big deal for the most part, for me. Can always exit the Beta at some distant future time if necessary.

 

[wtwieder]

I had a great, but not a lerfect. FSD drive yesterday on city streets and Freeway. I loved how FSD took me on and off the freeway. FSD took over on the exits where previously NOP would just disengage and tell me to take over. The car slowed appropriately on the exit curve and chose the left most of two right turn lanes because it knew that within 0.1 miles of the right turn it needed then turn left onto another road.
I completed the entire 30 mile round trip with only one disengagement.

However, that one disengagements was very dangerous and could have been fatal. Near home at the end of my round trip, my car was about to make an easy non-blind left turn with an incoming car a secent distance away, but it misjudged the speed of that car when beginning my turn. In the middle of the turn, my car just stopped. The oncoming car honked as I hit the accelerator and completed the turn. Phew! I was so close to being hit. You have to be so vigilant with FSD even when it seems to be working well. It needs lots of work in order to become consistantly safe. Yet, even now I get glimpses of its potential.