EVNow
Well-Known Member
This is a long game. Lets see where we are in 6 months, 1 year ...
If you expect big changes every release, you will be disappointed.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
If you expect big changes every release, you will be disappointed.
Even just from 10.3.1 to 10.4 I am noticing the changes for the better, and also some new issues like FSD playing with the blinker and changing lanes inappropriately. Regardless, FSD beta is already making y commute way easier by being so competent. I will need to intervene 6-12 times over the 40 mile drive. This seems pretty good to me.
Also, the new driver monitoring features really help decrease the nag frequency, requiring less input while still maintaining FSD confidence that the human is there paying attention.
I also found a workaround for the issue with switching speeds by setting the speed limit from current speed to speed limit +25%. Its rare that changing to a higher speed is a real issue, but changing from 55 to 35 is a big issue. For now, this has eliminated my frustration with the speed limits changing my set sp[eed so many times and when switching stacks.
I am NOT expecting big changes with every release, but I would like to see even a small improvement, other than a few graphical enhancements.
Will we be much further ahead in 6 months? Let's hope so, but when you look at the progress in the past 6 months, it doesn't look very promising. The graphics are much better today than 6 months ago, but sadly, the FSD itself isn't.
I have had one similar issue when it wanted to turn into a driveway about 50 yards short of the intended destination. Also have seen the location off of the road in the map view, but it drove ok???
I rewatched/scanned through literally hundreds of videos from various YouTubers to re-find this TesLatino video from last November
:Tesla me dijo que esperara como 10 segundos antes de reportar algo. The Tesla team told me that I should wait about 10 seconds after anything before I do the snapshot. So that gives them before, during and after information. Sobre la información de antes, durante y después.
I did message TesLatino / Rafael, and he did confirm that was from Tesla and sounds like the 5-snapshot limit might have been increased but still pretty limited, so use the button wisely to capture unique / weird situations.
From AI Day during the autolabelling section:
Here's an example of how we label a single clip. A clip is an entity that has dense sensor data like videos, IMU data, GPS, odometry, etc. This can be 45 seconds to a minute long. These can be uploaded by our own engineering cars or from customer cars.
Using TeslaCam videos as a reference point, they are compressed to ~37MB each for 1280x960 36fps 60 second clips, so 8x cameras gets us to 296MB. Karpathy's AI Day slides show 1280x960 12-Bit (HDR) @ 36fps, so that should be 1.8MB/frame or 63MB/sec/camera or 506MB/sec for 360° or 14.8GB for 30 second 360° clip. I tried to do a short 0.5mi run with a single snapshot usage this morning, but it's still uploading at over 4GB so far… maybe there was some stuff that wasn't uploaded overnight for some reason?
FSD's neighborhood behavior is worse than 10.2 and 10.3. It is very uncommon to find a car parked on the street in my neighborhood. Nonetheless, the car centers itself on the 25 foot wide asphalt street and does not move right until it's about 100 feet from an on-coming car (way too late for their comfort). I understand why it doesn't align on the right edge because of the risk of mailboxes and the risk of scratches from foliage, but there's no reason for the car to leave the right 12.5 feet of the road unless there's a parked car or other obstacle.
When exiting my neighborhood on a left turn, FSD ends up way left of center, because it starts in the center, turns the wheel, and keeps creeping forward to the left until it develops confidence with the turn onto the main road. Obviously that's totally unusable given traffic has to be able to enter the neighborhood while FSD is messing around. As many others have said, changing the steering angle before a left turn is unsafe and defective behavior, because (i) FSD creeping forward obstructs oncoming traffic and (ii) if you're rear-ended while waiting to turn, you'll inevitably be pushed into oncoming traffic.
As far as I can tell, 10.4 was a step backwards. Based on the awful behavior I don't want to use FSD in my neighborhood at all. I wish Tesla would provide us with enough information to know whether continuing to use and disengage FSD in those situations helps Tesla improve the behavior.
When exiting my neighborhood on a left turn, FSD ends up way left of center, because it starts in the center, turns the wheel, and keeps creeping forward to the left until it develops confidence with the turn onto the main road. Obviously that's totally unusable given traffic has to be able to enter the neighborhood while FSD is messing around. As many others have said, changing the steering angle before a left turn is unsafe and defective behavior, because (i) FSD creeping forward obstructs oncoming traffic and (ii) if you're rear-ended while waiting to turn, you'll inevitably be pushed into oncoming traffic.
As far as I can tell, 10.4 was a step backwards. Based on the awful behavior I don't want to use FSD in my neighborhood at all. I wish Tesla would provide us with enough information to know whether continuing to use and disengage FSD in those situations helps Tesla improve the behavior.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It is difficult to guess the size of compressed video - I'm assuming its not raw but compressed using some kind of HW compression - mpeg4 or AVC ...
Thanks a lot for digging this up. I'll message him as well.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If you see comparative videos like the one Frenchie or Chuck Cook has put out comparing FSD Beta versions over the months in the same scenario - we can clearly see an improvement.
Who knows where we'll be in 6 months or a year. If we can't easily spot improvements over 6 months - yes, I'd say its not very encouraging.
BTW, now that there are some 12k+ beta testers, with more to be added soon - I think the ability of any one of us to influence FSD has decreased. So, our individual issues may or may not get solved - but problems that are experienced widely should be addressed.
Like the jittery steering wheel on turns, esp from a stop.
FSD Steering Characteristics Discussion
Moving this discussion from the Elon FSD tweets thread...this is a discussion about the behavior of the steering in FSD Beta (at the moment 10.4). My summary is that it jerks around a lot unnecessarily and the preceding discussion in the other thread was about whether or not this was a bug...
teslamotorsclub.com
EVNow
Well-Known Member
In this chart I've been maintaining - does anyone think, as of 10.4, fsd beta early access ticks any of the other features ?
teslamotorsclub.com
Wiki - Tracking FSD Feature Complete
Background : In the Ark podcast Musk said they are planning to be feature complete by the end of the this year (2019). Feature complete is a specific software term that means set of features that are planned for a particular project / release have been coded & tested to be working to meet the...
teslamotorsclub.com
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The problem with those videos comparing the so called improvements is they don't show whether those improvements are consistent in a given situation if each trial is repeated. That's the problem I am having with my car handling a given turn. It's behavior is not consistent. It's hit or miss for no apparent reason, making it diffucult to see real change.If you see comparative videos like the one Frenchie or Chuck Cook has put out comparing FSD Beta versions over the months in the same scenario - we can clearly see an improvement.
Who knows where we'll be in 6 months or a year. If we can't easily spot improvements over 6 months - yes, I'd say its not very encouraging.
BTW, now that there are some 12k+ beta testers, with more to be added soon - I think the ability of any one of us to influence FSD has decreased. So, our individual issues may or may not get solved - but problems that are experienced widely should be addressed.
Like the jittery steering wheel on turns, esp from a stop.
FSD Steering Characteristics Discussion
Moving this discussion from the Elon FSD tweets thread...this is a discussion about the behavior of the steering in FSD Beta (at the moment 10.4). My summary is that it jerks around a lot unnecessarily and the preceding discussion in the other thread was about whether or not this was a bug...
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes - there is variability with each try. But over the months they have tried the same situations multiple times (you can go back and see the videos).
mine are super wide as well. what's weird is that the red boundary is very red on these roads, which I assume means the car is very confident where drivable space meets not drivable space. I get flickering of double yellow line in the visualization sometimes due to crappy asphalt cracking in the center, and only when the double yellow shows does the car stay to the right. If the yellow lines disappear in the visualization, the car immediately heads for the center-right.
Not sure why you don't have 5 (no sub) marked when you do have 1 & 3 (no sub) marked.In this chart I've been maintaining - does anyone think, as of 10.4, fsd beta early access ticks any of the other features ?
Wiki - Tracking FSD Feature Complete
Background : In the Ark podcast Musk said they are planning to be feature complete by the end of the this year (2019). Feature complete is a specific software term that means set of features that are planned for a particular project / release have been coded & tested to be working to meet the...
Re: 8.11, I'm not sure what "respond" means. I got take over immediately warnings today because of low visibility, and someone else mentioned FSD disabled due to rain.
Re: 8.12, I thought videos were posted showing that it treats traffic lights as 4-way stops when the power was out? I haven't seen the videos, so I don't know if this is true or if it is even specific to the FSD beta vs the traffic light beta. That is what this section is referring to, though, right?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Does FSD detect & respond to " Turn signals" ?
Yes - "Detect and Respond to Unanticipated Weather or Lighting Conditions Outside of Vehicle’s Capability (e.g . Rainstorm)" - can potentially be marked done - as I keep getting "poor weather conditions - AP not available" message, though AP & FSD are very much available.
I've taken items under "8. Modify normal driving behavior in special circumstances" from NHTSA and Waymo. I think a generous reading of the item would say FSD atleast responds to one type of "Detect and Respond to Unanticipated Lighting Conditions (e.g. power outages)". What would other such examples be .. ?
I wasn't looking at the text, I was looking at the colored boxes. I guess I should have been pointing out that 5.2 is errantly filled in. FWIW, I'm colorblind, and I'm treating not filled in the FSD Beta column as not complete and filled as complete. I now see that some of the features have different colors, but this isn't indicative of anything to me, especially without a color legend that may or may not help.
I was thinking primarily of electrical lighting, and only traffic signals seem relevant in that scenario, but I suppose sun-blinding could be another unexpected lighting scenario for which a notification is provided.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Oh yes - when its comes to catering to colorblind, we are all kind of blindsided. I'll change it.
Currently the way I've made it is - green is generally available. Yellow is available in FSD Beta (but not GA). Red is not available in FSD Beta too.
Major items (like 5 or 8) are green if all sub-items are available etc. I do need to make some corrections here.
yeah - not sure if its FSD or not. Without an accurate location the car is constantly trying to turn into incorrect roads and essentially becomes unusable.
Last time it happened it was trying to turn down dead end streets, into parking lots, into emergency vehicle only lanes etc etc. I gave up and drove manually.
I've opened a service ticket just to get it checked.
[edit] update from support. Hardware is reporting correctly so it must be an FSD thing. I'll do a snapshot next time it happens
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Had an uneventful drive today - except for one event.
At a cross walk a student was crossing the road. Looks like initially FSD didn't detect the pedestrian and continued to accelerate. When it did detect, it panicked and asked me to take over. We were still safely away (otherwise would have disengaged when it started accelerating). Would have been interesting to see what exactly happened i.e. when was the pedestrian visible and when it detected the pedestrian. Unfortunately couldn't record - out of battery charge.
ps : Difficult to use once instance to come to a conclusion - but that 35% better VRU detection claim seems ironic.
At a cross walk a student was crossing the road. Looks like initially FSD didn't detect the pedestrian and continued to accelerate. When it did detect, it panicked and asked me to take over. We were still safely away (otherwise would have disengaged when it started accelerating). Would have been interesting to see what exactly happened i.e. when was the pedestrian visible and when it detected the pedestrian. Unfortunately couldn't record - out of battery charge.
ps : Difficult to use once instance to come to a conclusion - but that 35% better VRU detection claim seems ironic.
Koolio46
Member
With 10.4, I’ve noticed the same with stopping, it’s much better than it used to be (no longer stops abruptly). I also feel like it’s more confident taking turns. It did a better job with the rotary near my place, too.
Still need to put more miles on 10.4 but so far it’s been a bit better for me.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Only clear deterioration for me is that the turns are a bit wider, forcing it to correct after the turn. Specifically with unprotected left turns on to a residential road I use all the time. Oh and creeping too far into the road.
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