MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021

[gearchruncher]

$1500 for HW3 doesn’t really make sense in any case, given its a $500 up charge for Model S/X if done in conjunction with an MCU upgrade…

I have a Model 3 with HW 2.5 like a hundred thousand people do. There is no MCU upgrade for a Model 3.

It very much wasn’t, although Tesla will be happy to rectify that for “free”, should you choose to purchase the FSD package outright.

They said it had all HW needed, period. The way I purchase FSD is not relevant nor explained. If they offer FSD as a sub, then they need to upgrade the HW for that too.

 

[Wigan]

The FSD subscription is live for $199/month. If you don’t have HW3 it’s $1,500 to add it.

How do you know if you have HW3? Do all recent cars have it?

 

[ucmndd]

I have a Model 3 with HW 2.5 like a hundred thousand people do. There is no MCU upgrade for a Model 3.

Cool. Also irrelevant to my point, which is that Tesla has previously pegged the cost of HW3 at about $500, so $1500 seems steep in any case.

 

[ucmndd]

How do you know if you have HW3? Do all recent cars have it?

Everything after ~mid-2019 came that way from the factory.

 

[ucmndd]

Are you saying that my car DOES have all the HW needed for FSD?

No, I said the opposite.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla wouldn't even tell you back then that you were getting HW2.5 or HW3. How was a buyer back then to know?

Uh... what?

I bought my car in 2018. I was absolutely sure I was getting HW2.5.

There was a brief period circa April 2019 when you couldn't be certain... but then that didn't really matter too much, since you could wait until the car showed up for delivery, LOOK at what was in it, and make your decision to add FSD then.

Cool. Also irrelevant to my point, which is that Tesla has previously pegged the cost of HW3 at about $500, so $1500 seems steep in any case.

Labor.

If they're ALREADY taking your car apart for the MCU swap, it's $500 for the extra part they're already in there near anyway.

if they're JUST doing a HW3 swap then you need to pay for the labor for that.... (yes 1k is steep for labor, but it's not just paying for the part)

 

[dinonugget]

Do subscribers get automatic FSD v9 beta access, or do they just get the old non-beta FSD?

 

[gearchruncher]

Cool. Also irrelevant to my point, which is that Tesla has previously pegged the cost of HW3 at about $500, so $1500 seems steep in any case.

How do you get this? MCU2 upgrade is $2000, with a free HW3 upgrade, which they do not tell you about at all. They did not change the price when they started doing HW3, they changed the price when NHTSA forced a recall.

 

[acarney]

Good, I’m glad this price is “high.” Maybe for the $10k guys it sucks a little, but I feel perfectly fine with my $8k purchase vs 40 months at $199. Less than three and a half years doesn’t seem bad… I figure I’ll keep my car that long (famous last words, lol)

This also seems to be a fair price for the lease guys in that it’s ~30% savings vs buying out right…

 

[ucmndd]

Do subscribers get automatic FSD v9 beta access, or do they just get the old non-beta FSD?

You definitely don’t get the “real” FSD beta.

 

[Knightshade]

How do you get this? MCU2 upgrade is $2000, with a free HW3 upgrade, which they do not tell you about at all. They did not change the price when they started doing HW3, they changed the price when NHTSA forced a recall.

Nope.

It's $2000 if you do the MCU upgrade on a car with HW2 or 2.5.

It's $1500 for the MCU upgrade on any other config.

Do subscribers get automatic FSD v9 beta access, or do they just get the old non-beta FSD?

You get the same thing anyone paying 10k to buy FSD gets- the public released software.

 

[ucmndd]

Labor.

If they're ALREADY taking your car apart for the MCU swap, it's $500 for the extra part they're already in there near anyway.

if they're JUST doing a HW3 swap then you need to pay for the labor for that.... (yes 1k is steep for labor, but it's not just paying for the part)

A thousand dollars? I mean, sure, labor, but that’s 5+ hours, even at Tesla’s shop rate. Did they put the Model 3 FSD computer in the battery penthouse or something? I’ve seen them do it on an S/X - it’s less than 30 minutes start to finish.

 

[gearchruncher]

but then that didn't really matter too much, since you could wait until the car showed up for delivery, LOOK at what was in it, and make your decision to add FSD then.

So, if you get a HW2.5 car, go pay $10K for FSD to get "free" HW3.
If you get a HW3 car, you can subscribe for $199 3 years later.
But this is no big deal which car you got, and is the same for both buyers?

Tesla's site said the cars have all HARDWARE NEEDED for FSD. Not all hardware needed for FSD purchases. Not are capable of FSD purchase. Like you say, it's exactly the same software, just billed differently, and Tesla's statement was about what SW it can run, not how you buy it.

What did the statement "all cars have the HW needed for FSD" even mean? Just marketing puffery? Buyer beware?

 

[gearchruncher]

It's $2000 if you do the MCU upgrade on a car with HW2 or 2.5.

It's $1500 for the MCU upgrade on any other config.

Ahh. Not when I bought the MCU upgrade. And I got HW3 as part of it (in my Model X. My 3 is HW 2.5).

 

[El joe]

It's not that easy. If FSD up-front goes up 40% then surely the subscription will go up to $280/mo. That means at only 36 months (@$280/mo.) you would have spent more on the subscription than the current $10K up-front price (which is essentially locked in).

It's like property. If you're saying that homes are going to increase in price by 40% then buy the house now and lock in the price instead of renting where your monthly cost will skyrocket 40%.

Maybe, but I’d rather pay $200 to try it for a month now then put up $10k to try it for 48 hours then rush to a decision.

 

[Knightshade]

So, if you get a HW2.5 car, go pay $10K for FSD to get "free" HW3.
If you get a HW3 car, you can subscribe for $199.
But this is no big deal?

That 10k thing has been true for a couple years now... (well, it was 8k for a while, but same idea)

So no, it's really not.

Tesla's site said the cars have all HARDWARE NEEDED for FSD. Not all hardware needed for FSD purchases.

Actually the FSD purchase page itself mentioned that FSD purchase includes the FSD computer if your car does not already have it.

It also includes a promise to deliver some specific FUTURE features to you as part of your purchase.

This, however, is not an FSD purchase.



You're subscribing to an entirely new service.

That service is only available to cars that already have HW3- and all it gets you is ONE month of use of the CURRENT FSD features available... (no "coming later" features)

 

[Knightshade]

Ahh. Not when I bought the MCU upgrade. And I got HW3 as part of it (in my Model X. My 3 is HW 2.5).

This upgrade is available for $2,000 plus applicable tax, including installation, for vehicles equipped with Autopilot Computer 2.0 or 2.5 and for $1,500 plus applicable tax, including installation, for all other vehicles

I think it was $2500 originally, so it's cheaper for everybody now than it used to be.

Either way- seems like anybody still with MCU1 and wanting FSD subscription would be well advised to spend the 2k on the MCU upgrade at this point rather than $1500 on just HW3.

 

[gearchruncher]

Actually the FSD purchase page itself mentioned that FSD purchase includes the FSD computer if your car does not already have it.

In 2018/2019 it absolutely did not. All that matters is then, since that's when the car purchase occurred with the statement that it had all the HW needed.

It could not have included that statement, as Tesla refused to acknowledge the existence of HW3 until it was shipping, for the very logic that no sane person would buy a Tesla if it had a known older computer in it that was not FSD capable.

 

[ucmndd]

They said it had all HW needed, period. The way I purchase FSD is not relevant nor explained. If they offer FSD as a sub, then they need to upgrade the HW for that too.

It’s an interesting theory, and a bit of a conundrum.

If you buy FSD outright, you get the HW3 necessary to run at no additional charge, meeting the obligation in the original claim.

Does the language you’re citing compel them to provide that hardware for free for a subscription service that they chose to offer years after that language was published? I mean, you could certainly try to argue that. I’m not particularly convinced you’ll get anywhere with it, but hey. It’s just time and money!

 

[Wigan]

Agreed… 50 month break-even is a lot longer than I thought. Very little incentive to pay $10k up front.

Especially when you consider the time value of money; the PV of 50 monthly payments of $200 discounted at 8% is only about $8.500. It takes 61 payments to discount to $10,000.