MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021

[gearchruncher]

Does the language you’re citing compel them to provide that hardware for free for a subscription service that they chose to offer years after that language was published? I mean, you could certainly try to argue that. I’m not particularly convinced you’ll get anywhere with it, but hey. It’s just time and money!

It's the reverse. It said it has all the HW needed for FSD. FSD as a single license purchase or a monthly purchase is still FSD. They never told you that the method of purchase matters. They never said it was only for specific purchase models. That's up to Tesla to say if they wanted to have that limitation.

It is 100% true that a HW2.5 car does not have what is needed for FSD. This was irrelevant before, as I did not buy FSD. However, this mis-statement now costs me $1500 if I want to subscribe to FSD. Tesla's the one that advertised it as capable, and decided to offer a subscription.

I'll be spending that time in small claims court for sure.

 

[DriveEV]

Looks like FSD subscription is live. Seeing it offered in my app for $199 a month.

 

[jjrandorin]

MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021

Was checking my Tesla app and noticed that FSD subscription is now available for $199.00 a month. Does anyone know if you will be able to subscribe/un-subscribe with ease? Would be nice to use on long trips for a week or 2 a year, but I I don't plan on needing it or wanting to use it on my...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[ucmndd]

I'll be spending that time in small claims court for sure.

be sure to keep us updated. Did you opt out of the arbitration clause when your car was delivered?

 

[Jack6591]

Full Self Driving will change the world; it will save millions of lives in the years to come. Each of you has been part of one the greatest experiments in history. A story to tell your grandchildren.

A bargain to say the least…

 

[Knightshade]

It's the reverse. It said it has all the HW needed for FSD.

Yes, that's why if you buy FSD you get the computer swapped for free.

If they later find out you need HW4, you'd get that free too.

Tesla mentioned this idea when HW2.5 first came out-- folks asked if it turned out 2.5 was necessary for FSD would 2.0 people who purchased be upgraded and Tesla said yes they would, at no cost.

Same idea here.

FSD as a single license purchase or a monthly purchase is still FSD.

Except, no, it's explicitly not.

One is selling you current and future features for the life of the vehicle. It includes things yet to be delivered, but promised as part of the contract. It includes all needed HW upgrades TODAY (for HW2.x cars) and will include future ones too if needed for the promised features (though smartly they dialed back the future promised features a ton in 2019 so probably won't need significantly more HW to deliver those).


The subscription is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT OFFERING--- giving you 1 months use of the CURRENT features, and only available to those who CURRENTLY have the hardware needed to use it.

It's a different product.

Just like FSD pre 4/19 is a different product than the one being sold since then.


Buying something, or renting temporary use of it, aren't the same thing, and do not convey the same rights, nor impose on the seller the same obligations.

They never told you that the method of purchase matters.

But this new thing isn't a purchase.

I'll be spending that time in small claims court for sure.

Assuming you opted out of arbitration you can.

You won't win, but knock yourself out.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Wow, need to separate these two threads out: 1) FSD subscription, 2) Bitching about the HW upgrade cost for older cars.

 

[gearchruncher]

be sure to keep us updated. Did you opt out of the arbitration clause when your car was delivered?

Assuming you opted out of arbitration you can.

I did. But you don't have to in order to go to small claims. The agreement specifically allows small claims resolutions instead of arbitration.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/order/download-order-agreement

 

[tps5352]

Looks like FSD subscription is live. Seeing it offered in my app for $199 a month.

Also available for $99 for owners "who already purchased the now-defunct Enhanced Autopilot package" (from electrek.co article). A friend has a Model 3 with EA. Assuming his car has the FSD computer (HW3.0), it may be a good deal for him to try out FSD for just $99 a month, either before or after wide release of the FSD Beta v9 software update.

 

[gearchruncher]

You won't win, but knock yourself out.

"Your honor, Tesla's website said "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." on the day I purchased my vehicle.

My car is still under warranty, yet when I went to acquire FSD from Tesla, they told me that because of the hardware in my car, it would be a $1,500 upgrade before they would sell it to me. They indicated that if my car was newer, and had different hardware, this charge would not apply."

Tesla's Non-Lawyer in attendance: Your honor, what we meant by "FSD" was "FSD when purchased all at once, not when subscribed to." "No your honor, we did not disclose this difference at the time of sale." "No your honor, the software delivered is identical in the subscription or purchase case." "No your honor, the customer's car does not have all hardware needed, hence the need for an upgrade."

Yep, looks like a clear win for Tesla. How could I be so silly!?

 

[gearchruncher]

The subscription is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT OFFERING--- giving you 1 months use of the CURRENT features, and only available to those who CURRENTLY have the hardware needed to use it.

It's a different product.

Just like FSD pre 4/19 is a different product than the one being sold since then.

Buying something, or renting temporary use of it, aren't the same thing, and do not convey the same rights, nor impose on the seller the same obligations.

Tesla never said that the FSD in "all hardware" is the "pre 2019. non subscription FSD." They just listed a feature, which is FSD. Maybe Tesla shouldn't call them the exact same thing if they are totally different.

Can you please show me the license agreement for FSD pre 2019, FSD post 2019, and FSD subscription, if it's so clear they are different products and confer different obligations?

Again, the issue here is that it is 100% clear the car does not have the HW to do FSD. That has been clear for years. But there were no damages due to Tesla's incorrect advertising. Now there are.

 

[Knightshade]

"Your honor, Tesla's website said "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." on the day I purchased my vehicle.

My car is still under warranty, yet when I went to acquire FSD from Tesla, they told me that because of the hardware in my car, it would be a $1,500 upgrade before they would sell it to me. They indicated that if my car was newer, and had different hardware, this charge would not apply."

Tesla's ACTUAL Lawyer in attendance because they don't put up with ridiculous lawsuits: Your honor, the FSD product the plaintiff refers to is an outright purchase, it remains available to him, and it does indeed include any hardware needed for that product to work.

What he is now trying to conflate with that product in the courtroom is a new subscription service that did not even exist until last month, and was created YEARS after his purchase.... that we are making available only to customers with a specific vehicle configuration, and which does NOT include all the same things as the original product, and which is a monthly rental rather than an outright purchase.

This lawsuit is without merit and we move you to dismiss with prejudice.



I fixed your post for you.

 

[gearchruncher]

Full Self Driving will change the world; it will save millions of lives in the years to come. Each of you has been part of one the greatest experiments in history. A story to tell your grandchildren.

Just zero evidence it will be Tesla that solves this problem.
Right now $199 gets you stopping at a stop sign and lane changes on the highway, and it's 100% your fault if those fail.

 

[gearchruncher]

Tesla's ACTUAL Lawyer in attendance because they don't put up with ridiculous lawsuits

WA does not allow laywers in small claims court. Period.

You really need to go look in the app. The features are described identically and named identically. There is no difference in the product.
It's like saying a Tesla Model 3 that is leased and one that is purchased are different cars.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla never said that the FSD in "all hardware" is the "pre 2019. non subscription FSD." They just listed a feature, which is FSD.

You keep, wrongly, claiming there's one single true thing called FSD evah!

This is factually flat out wrong.

There's been multiple, different products sold under the general banner.

This is another new, ALSO different, one.


The one that existed when YOU bought your car is STILL AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.

nothing has changed about it

They're now offering a NEW and DIFFERENT thing.

 

[Knightshade]

WA does not allow laywers in small claims court. Period.

Your "facts" are, again, wrong. Period.

Attorneys are allowed with the permission of the judge in Washington State.

 

[gearchruncher]

They're now offering a NEW and DIFFERENT thing.

Look at these two things which are CLEARLY DIFFERENT as advertised by Tesla.

 

[Knightshade]

Look at these two things which are CLEARLY DIFFERENT as advertised by Tesla.

View attachment 685266View attachment 685267

Well, yes, they are.

One specifically says a HW upgrade is required to be eligible for that product at all

The other does not because the purchase includes it and is available to anybody.

CASE DISMISSED!

 

[gearchruncher]

Attorneys are allowed with the permission of the judge in Washington State.

Ok, why would a judge allow permission in this case?

 

[El joe]

I will be happy if Tesla pays me back my 10k for FSD so I can pay a monthly subscription.

Resale of an FSD car is not 10k or even 7k more so I think this really poo poos on anyone who bought FSD at 7-10k.

I literally got a new (to me, but used with 7,600 miles on it) Model Y w/FSD two days ago and I’m trying to reason with my inner self if I overpaid by up to $10k or saved $200/month.