MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021

[stopcrazypp]

Who would you propose represent the corporation? Do you think they’re going to send a technician, sales rep, call center operator?

Attorney can not attend or participate WITH a plaintiff or defendant. But they can take the place of a corporation.

They can send any company rep, but it can't be a lawyer unless the judge approves. The BAR document says this: "A business or corporation may not have a lawyer represent it in small claims court". The reason is because small claims court is designed to allow individuals represent themselves, and if one side has a lawyer (businesses typically do), that skews things in their favor disproportionately.

 

[Fourdoor]

Yeah but that's still too slow. Nobody where I live is driving as slow as 75 or 80. 80-90mph is the norm.

So you're saying the car also doesn't have a real blind spot alert or cross traffic alerts. That's pretty damn poor.

I agree whole heartedly about lack of features being an issue, but on the highway speed issue I have to disagree, the improvement from 75 to 80 mph will be followed by further improvements in highway AP speed. The jump from 75 to 80 max was very quick in the software development cycle and I don't see why 85 or 90 would be that far away.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

It does NOT have rear cross traffic alerts- because you're supposed to back into parking spots anyway, it's objectively safer- thus you should be pulling out of them forward.

Tell that the the designers of most shopping center parking lots with one way lanes and angled parking spots. Also, if your assertion were true then Tesla's should all come with forward cross traffic alert. Many modern cars have this feature.

Keith

 

[Sorny]

I agree whole heartedly about lack of features being an issue, but on the highway speed issue I have to disagree, the improvement from 75 to 80 mph will be followed by further improvements in highway AP speed. The jump from 75 to 80 max was very quick in the software development cycle and I don't see why 85 or 90 would be that far away.

Keith

I’ve got a vision only model 3 and its way slow to respond to vehicles speeding up or when you move into a clear lane, and doesn’t allow a follow distance lower than 3 car lengths. This needs improvement before they can up the speed limit on autopilot.

 

[Knightshade]

Nissan said they will have 5 EVs within a couple of years .... 10 years back. It wsn't even something that nobody had/has achieved ...

Oh wait are we just citing broken promises from any auto maker now?

How bout in 2013 when VW said they'd be the world leader in EVs by 2018?

Not only did they miss that by hilarious degree, their CEO just mentioned on twitter they're now only "aiming" for #2 in the US in EVs.

#2 is a great description of many VW products

 

[Knightshade]

Tell that the the designers of most shopping center parking lots with one way lanes and angled parking spots.

Keith

Uh, if it's an angled spot in a one-way lot you have no use for cross traffic alert, since there is no cross traffic

It's all going one direction, and it's clearly visible on the wide rear view cam due to the angled spot.

 

[Fourdoor]

MEANWHILE, BACK IN REALITY-

Tesla Model 3 On Pace To Have Best Resale Value Of Any Car Ever Tested

When people tell us they can't afford an EV, we point to the super-cheap used options available. However, used Tesla Model 3 sedans aren't on our list.

insideevs.com

Tesla Model 3 Three-Year Depreciation Is 10%: EV Industry Average Is 52%

While Tesla continues to get criticized for its cars' quality, they hold value incredibly well. Would people pay a premium if the cars were falling apart?

insideevs.com

Tesla Model 3 leads industry in value retention, barely loses any value after a year

Tesla Model 3 is leading the industry in value retention by barely losing any value after a year and half...

electrek.co

When Tesla standard practice is to add FSD to a used Tesla that comes in when they put it in inventory (zero cost to them,10K extra profit when they sell it), they are adding 10K of negative depreciation artificially making the car look like it has an awesome resale value. This artificially pumps up the resale value on the open market as well. If I have a used Model S without FSD and with 50,000 miles for sale, I would look at the used Model S's of comparable mileage in Tesla's used inventory, and sell mine for a few thousand less than Tesla is asking. I would be getting around $5,000+ more than the car would be worth if Tesla wasn't artificially inflating the prices of used cars they have in inventory by adding FSD to all of them. One of my questions is how will FSD subscriptions affect the practice of adding FSD to every used Tesla that comes into inventory?

Keith

 

[jabloomf1230]

By the time regulation even allows that level of self driving, many things will have affected the price.
#1 being competition, which will drive the cost down, not up.
#2 being inflation. While price might go up, youll have more worthless monopoly money to afford it with.

Tesla is up against the curve now, and not the only fish in the tank.

Although in the long run, competition will force the price of FSD down, it's just as likely that other manufacturers will just do what Tesla did. Tesla probably just set the price and payment model that will bleed over into the rest of the industry.

 

[Wolfpacker83]

ok thanks for the info. just tested on highway i95. navigate on autopilot is working there and as soon as it takes an exit it ends however im still confused about what im seeing on youtube with the screens that are showing colored lines (curbs) and the broken blue line in front of the car when people are driving on non highway roads and the car still making its own left and right turns onto different streets and seems to be fully navigating on its own to its destination without being on a highway. so far my screen hasnt shown any of that. many of these videos are uploaded recently. wondering if all of these users are using a different version like navigate on city streets beta trial or something as where the new subscription version is basically just enhanced auto pilot for now? my vehicle is a 2021 model 3 sr plus built in february. any thoughts?

That is FSD Beta Version 9. Only approximately 2000 people were given access to that, as they are beta testers. What you are watching is called auto steer on city streets.
A wider release of that version to the public is probably months away.

 

[Fourdoor]

I’ve got a vision only model 3 and its way slow to respond to vehicles speeding up or when you move into a clear lane, and doesn’t allow a follow distance lower than 3 car lengths. This needs improvement before they can up the speed limit on autopilot.

I have a vision only MYP, but it is my understanding that even the radar equipped cars are slow to respond to a vehicle speeding up, or getting out of the lane in front of you... it isn't just a "vision only" thing. They already upped the speed limit on vision only autopilot once without changing these other items. Personally, I leave follow distance on max because it gives the car more time to speed up or slow down when a car in front of me does something. I understand that I couldn't do this in rush hour traffic due to the "cut in" factor if you leave a gap.

Keith

 

[linux-works]

Although in the long run, competition will force the price of FSD down, it's just as likely that other manufacturers will just do what Tesla did. Tesla probably just set the price and payment model that will bleed over into the rest of the industry.

nah, it will force prices down.

this isn't tech that one vendor will have a strangle-hold on. styles will vary and some vendors will have UIs that suck and so on, but just like ABS, its a check-box in modern cars and driving assist techs will also be like that.

tesla is on borrowed time. this isn't really worth nearly this much per month, but for NOW, it might be, to some.

the bottom will drop out. its natural and should be expected. as to when, that's the big question.

but every vendor is working on this, or willing to pay for black boxes that do this when its safe enough to use. the bosch's and conti's will own this field, in the long run (my prediction).

 

[drewshady]

That is FSD Beta Version 9. Only approximately 2000 people were given access to that, as they are beta testers. What you are watching is called auto steer on city streets.
A wider release of that version to the public is probably months away.

ok great thanks for the info.

 

[simpsonhomer]

Maybe, but I’d rather pay $200 to try it for a month now then put up $10k to try it for 48 hours then rush to a decision.

Well, that's an altogether different issue and has nothing to do with the faulty break-even math I was responding to.

 

[Fourdoor]

Uh, if it's an angled spot in a one-way lot you have no use for cross traffic alert, since there is no cross traffic

It's all going one direction, and it's clearly visible on the wide rear view cam due to the angled spot.

You try backing out of a spot when parked next to an F-350 pickup truck and get back to me on how well you can see the oncoming cars. In the real world you don't see crap until you are fully backed out into the lane of traffic.

Keith

PS: Hey, wait a min... why would backing into a parking space be safer when they are all ultra safe and I am being silly for wanting safety features that are common on much less expensive EV's on my Tesla? Pick a side on this issue.

 

[MP3Mike]

Ummm, get some Coffee STAT! If your wifes MY lease would only add 126 a month by adding 10,000 to the cost then the lease must be 80 months. On an average 36 month lease adding 10,000 to the cost would increase the monthly payment by $278.

Keith

PS: If the price of FSD is lower when you lease than it is when you purchase then ignore my entire post If this is the case, how much is it?

No that is for a new 36 month lease on a Model Y. Maybe you should try the options on the Tesla designer.

The point is when it is part of the lease you don't pay the full $10k just like you don't pay the full price of any option or the car on a lease.

 

[macmee]

I paid 10k, zero regrets

 

[banksywalker]

this definitely takes away the incentive/premium of FSD installed on used cars. Tesla should charge a membership fee of 2k or something to take part in the subscription, otherwise it makes no sense to purchase the FSD option at all. Unless they require a minimum commitment they just screwed over every owner, who bought FSD outright, in the resale market.

 

[EV Car]

Just tried FSD, paid 200 today, cancelled it right away (so have it 30 days). Did a 220 mile highway road trip (speed 72-77mph range).
Navigate on Autopilot and Auto Lane Change work reasonably well, i'd say its 85-90% done. Some situations (crowding traffic, heavy merges at speed - disable and take control). The other features not so interesting. At $200 this will be 'buy for any month with long road trips' but not year round.
I really wish tesla sold only Navigate on Autopilot and Auto Lane Change as an "Autopilot +" for like $4-$5k, I would happily buy that. The rest i dont care for as its not yet widely out or a finished product yet.

 

[gearchruncher]

For @Knightshade, @Wigan, @ucmndd, @rxlawdude, and all the others that are so sure I'm just one nutjob that thinks the $1500 is completely unfair for HW2/2.5 owners, there is a 750+ comment, 1,000 upvote thread on Reddit on the same topic, that, on average, has most people agreeing that this situation is not correct or fair.

It's really not a good look for Tesla, and for anyone that really supports Tesla and believes in FSD, it shows you what will happen to you when they realize they need HW4 to do what they promised in 2016. There's a very good chance given the number of annoyed customers that this will be tested in court. Tesla should hire all of you as their lawyers since you are all so sure that a "FSD capability" subscription has nothing to do with the hardware in the car being FSD capable.

 

[Jjrss]

For @Knightshade, @Wigan, @ucmndd, @rxlawdude, and all the others that are so sure I'm just one nutjob that thinks the $1500 is completely unfair for HW2/2.5 owners, there is a 750+ comment, 1,000 upvote thread on Reddit on the same topic, that, on average, has most people agreeing that this situation is not correct or fair.

It's really not a good look for Tesla, and for anyone that really supports Tesla and believes in FSD, it shows you what will happen to you when they realize they need HW4 to do what they promised in 2016. There's a very good chance given the number of annoyed customers that this will be tested in court. Tesla should hire all of you as their lawyers since you are all so sure that a "FSD capability" subscription has nothing to do with the hardware in the car being FSD capable.

Have you ever heard the concept of early adopters getting burned?

There's a reason a lot of us are "late" adopters.

PS, its still not ready, and it wont be for a long time. My car is a 2021 Y, and I know it doesnt have the HW for fully autonomous driving. It doesn't exist yet. We got a kindergartener that figured out how to draw between the lines faster than the rest of the class in regards to autonomous driving.