AxlxA,
Totally agree with you. that's why it upset me. which I680 ramp you starts for the test, mission blvd? I think I can do a test this afternoon.
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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
AxlxA,
Totally agree with you. that's why it upset me. which I680 ramp you starts for the test, mission blvd? I think I can do a test this afternoon.
diamond.g
Active Member
The car will take into account the range difference with no caps if you told it you removed them.
Mission north not the mission 238. But yes. Drive that up toward walnut creek and see. Today is windy though so factor that in.... Check windy.com
Here I took a pic. You'll be going against a 6mph headwind
I did a test this afternoon from I680 mission blvd ramp (exit12) to Danville. Total distance is around 26 miles. I set speed limit 75miles/hr. Wh/mi is 305 which is not as bad as I thought. outside temperature is around 62~64F.
This time the test drive is a bit different than I did before. I drove 10 miles to I680 mission blvd ramp and reset meter to start. I think the car warmed up. Therefore, the number is more close to etimsate number. I got around 13kWh power consumption with 20% battery drop which is acceptable to me.
I think maybe the warm-up in the first 10 miles is an important factor. The short distance trip shorten the range performance. a lot of battery are consumed for car warmup every single time especially in colder weather.
Hi TMThree!Just so you know, lithium batteries lifespan is best when kept at a neutral SoC. That means somewhere in the 45 to 50% range. Keeping it plugged in to maintain a SoC that is above that will not help retain battery life.
Ways to increase battery life:
1. Avoid leaving the battery sitting at a low or high SoC for a long time.
2. Schedule charging so its done just before you drive it. This limits the high SoC duration.
3. Don't expose battery to high temps. Ideally it doesn't see above ~85F, but park in the shade to help when that can't be avoided.
4. Avoid high depth of discharges if possible. If you do a 20% discharge daily vs 60% discharge by charging once every 3 days, the former will allow the battery to likely last twice as long in terms of charge cycles and number of miles the battery allow the car to be driven.
I'm not listing age, which we can't do anything about. But cells degrade over time, and we can't avoid it (Other than keeping the battery pack on ice to slow it)
If you doubt this post, check out the neat charts on battery university:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
The absolute worse thing to do is high SoC + high temps. You can't use blanket statements like "90% is better than 100%" because 90% in 30 degree weather is absolutely less stress than 80% in 95 degree temps.
The items I listed above are general rules of thumb, you obviously can't avoid them all, but knowing what is harmful to a battery is useful for situations when you can avoid them.
I think you are spot on!
Where did you found the curve? Sems like it is better to stay at 20% than 70%?
I’m posting this because I feel I should balance out the issues some owners have reported about range loss over time.
I accidentally got a larger than usual charge on my car overnight. I generally set it for 75-85%, but woke up to see it was 94%. This only happened one other time, and I blamed an odd charger I’d stopped at for resetting my charge. I’m not sure why it got reset to 100% this time. (I had been venting my windows using the Tesla Stats app, which I’d not tried before. I had a Italian takeout sitting inside and wanted to air it out.)
If I swapped it to miles it is 304 and if I make the assumption that I get 3 miles for each % charge, it’s 322 mile for 100%!
All I can say is SWEET!
I received delivery March 2019. It’s a RWD M3 LR.
I accidentally got a larger than usual charge on my car overnight. I generally set it for 75-85%, but woke up to see it was 94%. This only happened one other time, and I blamed an odd charger I’d stopped at for resetting my charge. I’m not sure why it got reset to 100% this time. (I had been venting my windows using the Tesla Stats app, which I’d not tried before. I had a Italian takeout sitting inside and wanted to air it out.)
If I swapped it to miles it is 304 and if I make the assumption that I get 3 miles for each % charge, it’s 322 mile for 100%!
All I can say is SWEET!
I received delivery March 2019. It’s a RWD M3 LR.
I've twice, accidentally set my charge limit to 100% because of Stats. The first Stats screen made it too easy to touch the charge slider, and it would zoom to the right, 100%! I don't know if the updated first page improves that, but maybe not, if you just did it.
Hi Everyone,
I know this general topic has been beaten to death already but I would like to hear your opinions on my experience in particular. I got Model 3 performance in July (ordered in June, currently a little over 4k miles) and have been experiencing range drop ever since. I do not mean the actual number of miles the car drives on a full charge (90%) as I understand there are an enormous number of variables, my driving being one of them. What I am talking about is the number of miles shown on the screen when you finish charging fully. In Ideal world on the 20 inch stock performance tires on full charge I should be getting 305 miles of range. When I got the car and charged it the first time to 90% I think the number was 271 (so 4 miles less than "ideal" but still very good). Ever since almost every other time (although for a minute there I could have swore it was every time) I use super charger that number drops by 1 mile. Today I hit 258 miles on 90% charge which is less than 85% of 305 miles and my worry is this trend will continue.
Charging type: I am sure this is going to come up in your responses so I will talk about my charging. I live in an apartment complex in Bay Area, California with no way to charge so I rely on Super Chargers and 20A slow charges that some schools have which allow you to use them over the weekend using PowerFlex app. When ever possible I always go with the 20A solution as that lets me get out for a walk and I can just drop the car off in the morning and come back around sundown to pick it up and its usually full by then (or just about).
Charging Frequency: I charge about once a week. I park the car outside (no parking spots due to number of apartments in the building being over double of the number of the parking spots). So I was using century mode which would drain my battery at a very fast pace which often made me have to charge twice a week, needless to say I don't use Century mode anymore as I am worried about battery loss from having to charge more than once a week. Even with no Century mode most of my battery goes to phantom drain (as I really don't drive that much due to pandemic) so I am still forced to charge every 1-1.5 weeks due to battery getting drained. Most of the time I only charge when the screen tells me its time to charge (I think that starts about 18% so a little after the battery turns yellow) and charge to either 80% or 90% in one go. However there have been times where I only added 60 miles or so on the 20A charger while I was hiking.
Environment: As I mentioned I live in the Bay Area and while it did get insanely hot this summer and I did eventually ended up turning on cabin overheat protection it does not really get that cold at all. I think I have seen the snowflake symbol on the battery only once ever (for awhile I only saw that on youtube and was wondering if my car even does it).
Please let me know if you guys think I should be concerned and take my car for a checkup with Tesla, my only worry though is they are just going to tell me to f off.
I know this general topic has been beaten to death already but I would like to hear your opinions on my experience in particular. I got Model 3 performance in July (ordered in June, currently a little over 4k miles) and have been experiencing range drop ever since. I do not mean the actual number of miles the car drives on a full charge (90%) as I understand there are an enormous number of variables, my driving being one of them. What I am talking about is the number of miles shown on the screen when you finish charging fully. In Ideal world on the 20 inch stock performance tires on full charge I should be getting 305 miles of range. When I got the car and charged it the first time to 90% I think the number was 271 (so 4 miles less than "ideal" but still very good). Ever since almost every other time (although for a minute there I could have swore it was every time) I use super charger that number drops by 1 mile. Today I hit 258 miles on 90% charge which is less than 85% of 305 miles and my worry is this trend will continue.
Charging type: I am sure this is going to come up in your responses so I will talk about my charging. I live in an apartment complex in Bay Area, California with no way to charge so I rely on Super Chargers and 20A slow charges that some schools have which allow you to use them over the weekend using PowerFlex app. When ever possible I always go with the 20A solution as that lets me get out for a walk and I can just drop the car off in the morning and come back around sundown to pick it up and its usually full by then (or just about).
Charging Frequency: I charge about once a week. I park the car outside (no parking spots due to number of apartments in the building being over double of the number of the parking spots). So I was using century mode which would drain my battery at a very fast pace which often made me have to charge twice a week, needless to say I don't use Century mode anymore as I am worried about battery loss from having to charge more than once a week. Even with no Century mode most of my battery goes to phantom drain (as I really don't drive that much due to pandemic) so I am still forced to charge every 1-1.5 weeks due to battery getting drained. Most of the time I only charge when the screen tells me its time to charge (I think that starts about 18% so a little after the battery turns yellow) and charge to either 80% or 90% in one go. However there have been times where I only added 60 miles or so on the 20A charger while I was hiking.
Environment: As I mentioned I live in the Bay Area and while it did get insanely hot this summer and I did eventually ended up turning on cabin overheat protection it does not really get that cold at all. I think I have seen the snowflake symbol on the battery only once ever (for awhile I only saw that on youtube and was wondering if my car even does it).
Please let me know if you guys think I should be concerned and take my car for a checkup with Tesla, my only worry though is they are just going to tell me to f off.
When you buy a new cell phone, laptop or any battery operated electronic device it begins degrading. All you can do is use the recommendations to reduce loss of range.
Personally, I do check how things are looking by using the cool graph on Tesla Stats app, then I forget it. It’s a car. It likely won’t be your last, just like your phone, your laptop won’t be.
I don’t mean to be rude, but there’s a lot to enjoy about the car. Be happy and ENJOY it.
Personally, I do check how things are looking by using the cool graph on Tesla Stats app, then I forget it. It’s a car. It likely won’t be your last, just like your phone, your laptop won’t be.
I don’t mean to be rude, but there’s a lot to enjoy about the car. Be happy and ENJOY it.
1. TMThree: Are you the creator of the graph?
2. Yes, not good to drive at 20% SOC. But Your graph says that lower SOC have some advantages.
Look for the app called “Tesla Stats”. It offers lots of information and some control features (window and climate controls, unlocked and open doors or windows warnings).
There are other apps, but this is where there is a “Battery Health” graph that I found reassuring.
There are other apps, but this is where there is a “Battery Health” graph that I found reassuring.
iKhalid
Member
2020 Model 3 Performance, December 2019 build.
After 21,500km (13,359 mi)
At 100%
w/ 20" i get 455 km (282 mi)
w/ 18" i get 485 km (301 mi)
And even when it was brand new, I've never seen the advertised range, 310 mi.
Looks like I have the worst range compared to everyone above. Oh yes, I just did 3 cycles from 7% to 100% and I only supercharged 7 or 8 times.
(moderator note: post moved to master thread)
After 21,500km (13,359 mi)
At 100%
w/ 20" i get 455 km (282 mi)
w/ 18" i get 485 km (301 mi)
And even when it was brand new, I've never seen the advertised range, 310 mi.
Looks like I have the worst range compared to everyone above. Oh yes, I just did 3 cycles from 7% to 100% and I only supercharged 7 or 8 times.
(moderator note: post moved to master thread)
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This was never the advertised range. It was 299rmi 20", 304rmi 19", and 322rmi 18".
You have 282.7/299 or 301.4/322 capacity loss, or between 93.6% and 94.5% of your original capacity, for about 5.5-6.5% loss.
This is a very normal result. You have 73kWh available at a full charge (77.6kWh*0.94).
It may be worse than some of the recent reports here, but I'm sure if you scroll through a bit you'll find a result worse than 6%. 7-10% is not unusual after a couple years, though some people see nearly no loss of capacity in that time. Kind of luck of the draw.
My car shows about 288 out of its original 310 rated miles, and has a capacity of 70.5kWh (76kWh*0.93) at 100%. November 2018 Performance, 21k miles.
So, to set a stage. I purchased about a month ago. I accepted a demo car (I know, but long story) that had 1,900 miles on it. Besides just daily run to the store and things I have now taken three "road trips" averaging about 150 miles. The first was the day I picked up, then a back and forth trip today. It looks like I am loosing an average of 24.5% of my battery life. All drives were similar, mid 30 degree temps, slight precipitation, never really going more than 5 miles over the speed limit, utilizing cruise control most of the time as the route was mostly freeway driving. Currently the car has 2,610 miles.
The first trip I had 220 miles (90% charged) when I started driving, I drove 132 miles, only had 48 miles left, a loss of 18.18%
The second trip I had 243 miles (100% charged) when I started driving, I drove 162.5 miles, only had 21 miles left, a loss of 24.49%
The third trip I had 213 miles (about 95% charged) when I started driving, I drove 151 miles, only had 7 miles left, a loss of 31.60%
So, I guess I have a couple of questions-
1 is why is a 100% charge actually about 8% less than what my distance is supposed to be? Seems like the answer here is that some of the updates are playing with this, but that does not seem a valid answer since it seems to be that way since December 2019?
2 is why am I getting such varied results? I could see if I was going from 30 degree to 80 degree days or not taking the same route or there were other factors that were very different, but that is just not the case.
I do have a service appointment next week for this, some fogging in camera chambers and some body panels that are just way, way off line but I want to be prepared for what they will tell me on this matter. To be honest, unless you only go to the local store and back a car with 145 mile range just seems pretty unrealistic... But, I love my car so I am hoping there is just something I am missing.
I really appreciate all of your thoughts on this.
The first trip I had 220 miles (90% charged) when I started driving, I drove 132 miles, only had 48 miles left, a loss of 18.18%
The second trip I had 243 miles (100% charged) when I started driving, I drove 162.5 miles, only had 21 miles left, a loss of 24.49%
The third trip I had 213 miles (about 95% charged) when I started driving, I drove 151 miles, only had 7 miles left, a loss of 31.60%
So, I guess I have a couple of questions-
1 is why is a 100% charge actually about 8% less than what my distance is supposed to be? Seems like the answer here is that some of the updates are playing with this, but that does not seem a valid answer since it seems to be that way since December 2019?
2 is why am I getting such varied results? I could see if I was going from 30 degree to 80 degree days or not taking the same route or there were other factors that were very different, but that is just not the case.
I do have a service appointment next week for this, some fogging in camera chambers and some body panels that are just way, way off line but I want to be prepared for what they will tell me on this matter. To be honest, unless you only go to the local store and back a car with 145 mile range just seems pretty unrealistic... But, I love my car so I am hoping there is just something I am missing.
I really appreciate all of your thoughts on this.
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