Mobile Charger no longer included

[OliverM3]

Here I go again reading things


I was reading the 2020 NEC changes in section 210.8(A). My interpretation while probably wrong sounds like it only applies to wet areas they just expanded it to include 250v. If that isn't the case wouldn't every breaker in the house need a gfci breaker? My garage has no wet areas or sinks.

 

[jcanoe]

Here I go again reading things


I was reading the 2020 NEC changes in section 210.8(A). My interpretation while probably wrong sounds like it only applies to wet areas they just expanded it to include 250v. If that isn't the case wouldn't every breaker in the house need a gfci breaker? My garage has no wet areas or sinks.


View attachment 795802

Only for new construction, new circuits. Local building code jurisdictions may choose to adopt only certain provisions of the 2020 NEC.

 

[Rocky_H]

I was reading the 2020 NEC changes in section 210.8(A).

But that's beside the point. In the 2017 NEC, they added a bunch of stuff in section 625 that is all about electric vehicle charging. And there's no out there. They stated point blank that ANY outlet being installed for the purpose of EV charging must use a GFCI breaker. Period. Hard wired devices that are not plugging into an outlet don't have to have it though. So that stuff in section 210 about regular general purpose outlets doesn't matter.

 

[vanjwilson]

How do you unlock the port to remove the plug when you're done charging?

As others have pointed out, you can select Unlock Charge Port from the car's screen. (I never tried pushing the trigger on the J1772 plug's handle, because I keep the aftermarket locking ring on my adapter so I don't lose it.)

 

[OliverM3]

But that's beside the point. In the 2017 NEC, they added a bunch of stuff in section 625 that is all about electric vehicle charging. And there's no out there. They stated point blank that ANY outlet being installed for the purpose of EV charging must use a GFCI breaker. Period. Hard wired devices that are not plugging into an outlet don't have to have it though. So that stuff in section 210 about regular general purpose outlets doesn't matter.

Gotcha I'll have to read that thought it was related to the 2020 revision

 

[OliverM3]

As others have pointed out, you can select Unlock Charge Port from the car's screen. (I never tried pushing the trigger on the J1772 plug's handle, because I keep the aftermarket locking ring on my adapter so I don't lose it.)

Yeah the button works great I just keep the locking ring in my charging bag I have no need for it at home.

 

[Rocky_H]

Gotcha I'll have to read that thought it was related to the 2020 revision

Yeah, if you were a builder or electrician and were installing a lot of general purpose outlets, that stuff would matter, because 2020 did expand the use of GFCI for even more things, but since this thread is about outlets for EV charging, that was already included in 2017 before that.

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

A GFCI circuit breaker would protect the user when plugging and unplugging the Mobile Connector, the current non-GFCI circuit breaker could easily be changed. The cost would be ~$100 plus any labor unless you do it yourself or have a friend who can change the breaker.

The standard 14-50 receptacle is not designed for repeated plugging and unplugging. With a 14-50 receptacle it is best to minimize the number of times it is used as the plug connection can loosen over time.

A second Mobile Connector or portable EVSE for travel would address both issues.

Well hell, after all of this, makes me think I might want to reconsider and just get a wall connector, connect there, and then save that breaker, and the 14-50 outlet, for use in the apartment we are going to build upstairs. We will need it for appliances up there.

And then I will just keep the mobile connector for travel in intermountain states, as I am very likely or sure to need it traveling the backroads.

 

[STS-134]

You’d be a good attorney as class action lawsuits would make easy money. As a plaintiff, class action lawsuits are terrible. You get peanuts compared to suing as an individual. Just sit back and wait to see if a class action lawsuit is won. Then you have precedent to sue as an individual. I believe that’s what the smart ones were doing with Ford and their self-destructing engines at least.

I don't see why you'd take the class action route as opposed to suing them individually in small claims court. Although as long as they're honoring existing orders, only excluding the MC on new orders, and making it clear when you order the vehicle that the MC is excluded, I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on. But if your vehicle does show up without a MC and you expected to be able to use one to charge it, and Tesla was out of stock which forces you to buy another EVSE, you could probably sue them for the cost of that EVSE plus the retail cost of the MC. Your case is even better if you literally bought the NEMA adapter set and just didn't have a MC to use it with.

But that's beside the point. In the 2017 NEC, they added a bunch of stuff in section 625 that is all about electric vehicle charging. And there's no out there. They stated point blank that ANY outlet being installed for the purpose of EV charging must use a GFCI breaker. Period. Hard wired devices that are not plugging into an outlet don't have to have it though. So that stuff in section 210 about regular general purpose outlets doesn't matter.

Except didn't they grandfather existing installs? If it was so dangerous, they'd have required all existing installs to be changed. It's not really any more dangerous than a 120V hot line, unless you touch both phases simultaneously; that's one of the advantages of split phase. Although I do think that NEMA plugs suck, especially NEMA 6, 10, and 14, with their long and uninsulated prongs. But treat it with respect and it won't be an issue.

 

[STS-134]

Well hell, after all of this, makes me think I might want to reconsider and just get a wall connector, connect there, and then save that breaker, and the 14-50 outlet, for use in the apartment we are going to build upstairs. We will need it for appliances up there.

And then I will just keep the mobile connector for travel in intermountain states, as I am very likely or sure to need it traveling the backroads.

That's the conclusion I came to. NEMA 14 outlets generally have wear issues if you plug and unplug stuff all the time (not so much the Hubbell ones, but some brands like Leviton are pretty bad). I currently have a WC for my Tesla, and an old ChargePoint Home (non Flex) for my PHEV with a NEMA 6-50 plug that's currently plugged into a 14-50 to 6-50 adapter. If that EVSE dies and I replace it with a ChargePoint Home Flex, I may just hardwire the darn thing on a 70A circuit, get rid of one potential point of failure, and allow it to work at the full 50A it's capable of. I figure for the NEMA plugs on my MC, I won't be using my own outlet so if those outlets wear out, it's someone else's problem and not mine.

 

[Rocky_H]

Except didn't they grandfather existing installs?

Sort of. I mean that happens by default, without anything having to be done to actively "grandfather" it in. Every change to every new version of code doesn't have to go back and be retroactively applied to everything in everyone's house in the country. Whatever it was installed on, it just stays that way, and code doesn't say you have to go back and update everything that's in place. It just applies to something that is being installed now, and that has to use whatever code version is currently applicable.

If it was so dangerous, they'd have required all existing installs to be changed.

That's not how that works, though. I mean "knob and tube" wiring style is very significantly dangerous, but it continues to sit there in very old houses and doesn't have to be changed unless something triggers having to bring everything up to code, like doing an add-on renovation or remodel or something where it has to be inspected again.

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It's not really any more dangerous than a 120V hot line, unless you touch both phases simultaneously; that's one of the advantages of split phase.

Agree, but that's kind of a different topic. I also think this requirement of GFCI for EV charging specifically is ridiculous overkill and doesn't make much sense. I'm just stating what the code says, and I generally think it's a decent idea to go with what it requires, even if it seems over the top on some things.

 

[FastEddieB]

The standard 14-50 receptacle is not designed for repeated plugging and unplugging. With a 14-50 receptacle it is best to minimize the number of times it is used as the plug connection can loosen over time.

Not debating that fact, just pointing out that these are used in RV parks where no doubt plugging/unplugging occurs on a very regular basis. Don’t honestly know how often they have to be replaced by RV park owners, or if they pay the big bucks for heavier duty receptacles.

 

[weathergeekdan]

I don't see why you'd take the class action route as opposed to suing them individually in small claims court. Although as long as they're honoring existing orders, only excluding the MC on new orders, and making it clear when you order the vehicle that the MC is excluded, I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on. But if your vehicle does show up without a MC and you expected to be able to use one to charge it, and Tesla was out of stock which forces you to buy another EVSE, you could probably sue them for the cost of that EVSE plus the retail cost of the MC. Your case is even better if you literally bought the NEMA adapter set and just didn't have a MC to use it with.


Except didn't they grandfather existing installs? If it was so dangerous, they'd have required all existing installs to be changed. It's not really any more dangerous than a 120V hot line, unless you touch both phases simultaneously; that's one of the advantages of split phase. Although I do think that NEMA plugs suck, especially NEMA 6, 10, and 14, with their long and uninsulated prongs. But treat it with respect and it won't be an issue.

Someone wants to sue over a $200 accessory?

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

Someone wants to sue over a $200 accessory?

I understand the economics of dealing with such a lawsuit are tough. That said, should companies be able to just walk from promises made in writing, promises that induced sales, and also caused folks to incur other costs to use the equipment promised to be included? (recognizing that as far as we know, those prior orders will receive the promised mobile charger unit).

 

[rjpjnk]

Well hell, after all of this, makes me think I might want to reconsider and just get a wall connector, connect there, and then save that breaker, and the 14-50 outlet, for use in the apartment we are going to build upstairs. We will need it for appliances up there.

And then I will just keep the mobile connector for travel in intermountain states, as I am very likely or sure to need it traveling the backroads.

My thinking as well. Very happy with this setup.

 

[LVMY2022]

Tesla has a somewhat vague video of using J-1772 chargers with their cars. Since you are familiar with both Teslas and the JuiceBox40, I'd like to feel secure using my slightly older JB40 (non-wi-fi) with a prospective Y I may be ordering later this week, once I test-drive one this Thursday (if they can find one to test drive!), and both I and my wife like the experience.

Can I ask if using the Tesla/J-1772 adaptor ($50) is easily added and removable to the handle of the JB40? Does it communicate with the car the same way as a Tesla-made charger? I know it doesn't have the built-in button on the habdle to open/close the chargeport, but does the Tesla LED "T" show the same colored and blinking indications as it would with an OEM Tesla charging cord? If I unplug early, are there any issues? What about leaving it plugged in overnight for conditioning?

Unlike a Tesla WC, I can't limit or set the JB40 to a specific amperage. It does appear that I can dial the car to limit to, say, 32A charging. During a long charging session, does the connection tend to stay at a set amperage, or might it stray from the setting on the car's screen?

The car would be outdoors, as I have no usable garage. The circuit is 40A 240v. The JB40 is the version that plugs into a 14-50 outlet (without a GFI).

Thanks you, in advance!

It behaves like the Tesla charger, but you need to set the charging current in your Tesla to 32A max, if not Tesla would try to draw 40A and it will trip the circuit breaker. Open charge port from your phone (or push on the port) then put the J-1772 on the charger end then charge. It will stay on and charge as normal. I like my Juicebox40 with wi-fi because you can set the charge time and everything thru wifi, but the older one without wifi would work the same. It show everything and blinking the same when charging. Just make sure that you control your charge time/current through Tesla app instead of JB40 since you don't have the wifi version. If the JB40 is indoor, then you are good to go, I don't think it's made for outdoors like the Tesla Wall charger. But for your purpose it will work the same as Tesla mobile charger. I hope this helps.

 

[STS-134]

Someone wants to sue over a $200 accessory?

If they had 10,000 customers all suing, their legal bills would exceed the cost of the MCs many times over.

 

[Rocky_H]

but you need to set the charging current in your Tesla to 32A max, if not Tesla would try to draw 40A and it will trip the circuit breaker.

Then you have your charging equipment configured or installed wrong and dangerously. You should have the charging equipment configured properly for your circuit. That should make it announce to any cars that connect to it ONLY the maximum allowable safe level of amps. Someone should NEVER have to dial down the current in the car.

 

[STS-134]

Then you have your charging equipment configured or installed wrong and dangerously. You should have the charging equipment configured properly for your circuit. That should make it announce to any cars that connect to it ONLY the maximum allowable safe level of amps. Someone should NEVER have to dial down the current in the car.

A friend of mine was renting a house and got a NEMA 14-50 extension cord. Then he got a 10-30 to 14-50 adapter to connect the cord to the dryer outlet, and used the 14-50 adapter on his MC to connect the MC to the extension cord which of course caused the MC to advertise that there were 32A worth of current available (problem: the circuit was only 30A and could take no more than 24A of continuous current). Then he dialed back the current on the car to avoid blowing the breaker. I told him that this is inherently unsafe and he needs to either use a NEMA 10-30 extension cord or use a 14-50 to 10-30 adapter on the other end to avoid this situation. Dialing back the current on the car should never be used to avoid blowing a circuit breaker.

 

[Bikeman]

We have had a JuiceBox 40Amp charger, plugged into a 14-50 outlet, since Fall 2019 to charge my wife's BMW i3. Only difference from your setup is ours is in a garage.

When I got my Tesla MY last year, I was able to charge it with the JuiceBox using the J1772 adapter that came with the Tesla. I leave it in my car, and just pull it out when I need to charge at home. It's easy; I just slide the adapter onto the end of the JB plug, then plug into the Tesla. The "T" flashes the same, and I can set the charging amperage on the car's screen. The car's setting stays rock-solid.

and

As others have pointed out, you can select Unlock Charge Port from the car's screen. (I never tried pushing the trigger on the J1772 plug's handle, because I keep the aftermarket locking ring on my adapter so I don't lose it.)

Many thanks! Looks like my future-proofing plan from 2017 has worked out so far. I even added a 20A 120v circuit next to the JB40 for a secondary, yet slower, backup charging solution, if ever needed. My SA at the local Tesla location confirmed the Tesla charging "T" lighting up just like OEM Tesla charger is supported with J-1772 charging.