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Mobile charging for Australia
- Thread starter Dborn
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- Australia New Zealand
wpapua
Member
My understanding is that there is no way to indicate the cable capability back through J1772 to the EVSE controller. The J1772 EVSE must be appropriately configured so that the complete EVSE outputs a pilot signal appropriate for the electrical circuit and the permanently attached cable. This mobile adapter cable to a Type-2 inlet must be designed to a high enough spec for all the J1772 stations that you plan to use. In most cases, this is easy. A cable that can handle 32A continuous current will handle all the J1772 stations you're likely to encounter in AU/NZ. However, it might get ugly fast if it was connected to a Clipper Creek CS-100 because the car would think it was OK to draw 80A.
Actually, that brings up another question - is the adapter wired like the EU UMC where the single phase power goes to all three phases of the on-board chargers, or is it only wired to one phase? If two leads are NC, I think the car would draw a maximum of 32A anyway since it would only take 16A from each OBC. I've heard conflicting things about how Tesla is building the 3-phase cars these days. UK cars seem to have been delivered with both OBCs regardless of whether they were ordered so that they could charge at 32A single phase. However, there was also talk - before UK cars started deliveries - that the EU cars would be "fixed" so that the three phase chargers could be fully utilized with single phase power. I thought this would involve a new junction box between the charge port and the on-board chargers so that it could reconfigure the connections depending on whether a single phase or three phase station was connected. However, I never heard anything about these actually being installed in early EU cars. Anybody know?
Actually, that brings up another question - is the adapter wired like the EU UMC where the single phase power goes to all three phases of the on-board chargers, or is it only wired to one phase? If two leads are NC, I think the car would draw a maximum of 32A anyway since it would only take 16A from each OBC. I've heard conflicting things about how Tesla is building the 3-phase cars these days. UK cars seem to have been delivered with both OBCs regardless of whether they were ordered so that they could charge at 32A single phase. However, there was also talk - before UK cars started deliveries - that the EU cars would be "fixed" so that the three phase chargers could be fully utilized with single phase power. I thought this would involve a new junction box between the charge port and the on-board chargers so that it could reconfigure the connections depending on whether a single phase or three phase station was connected. However, I never heard anything about these actually being installed in early EU cars. Anybody know?
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Yes.
Not so. The car end is 62196 which has resistor coding. The only public reference I have handy is p.24 (23) of this doc: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/2009symposium/presentations/preuschoff_oestreicher.pdf
Steve,
That's a very interesting document from 2009. All the current issues regarding Type-1 and Type-2 were well known and apparently the German companies were advocating global use of Type-2 while Japanese and American companies were set on Type-1. I found it particularly amusing that they called out the maintenance and vandalism (copper theft) of charge cables as a reason to go with the Type-2 system that has no captive cable. Copper theft was not nearly the problem in 2009 that it is now. Luckily we haven't seen too many charging station cords hacked off for their copper.
Regarding the resistor issue, the illustration in the linked document shows resistors in the handles at both ends of the cable. That's not correct is it? I suppose that you could put a double-value resistor at both ends and if the cable is cut, the resistance would be wrong and distinguishable from a complete cable of a different value. In any case, you are, of course, correct.
I wonder if automakers really do test this case where the pilot signal and the cable resistor are mis-matched. In a complete Type-2 system, the station would see the resistor value and set the pilot correctly. While a Type-1 station with this adapter, would set the same pilot signal it always does and it would be up to the car to draw the lower of the cable rating (as indicated by the resistor) or the pilot signal. I'm also curious if you have tried the higher resistor values (corresponding to 20A or 13A) in your adapter and whether the Model S shows that value on the center screen.
That's a very interesting document from 2009. All the current issues regarding Type-1 and Type-2 were well known and apparently the German companies were advocating global use of Type-2 while Japanese and American companies were set on Type-1. I found it particularly amusing that they called out the maintenance and vandalism (copper theft) of charge cables as a reason to go with the Type-2 system that has no captive cable. Copper theft was not nearly the problem in 2009 that it is now. Luckily we haven't seen too many charging station cords hacked off for their copper.
Regarding the resistor issue, the illustration in the linked document shows resistors in the handles at both ends of the cable. That's not correct is it? I suppose that you could put a double-value resistor at both ends and if the cable is cut, the resistance would be wrong and distinguishable from a complete cable of a different value. In any case, you are, of course, correct.
I wonder if automakers really do test this case where the pilot signal and the cable resistor are mis-matched. In a complete Type-2 system, the station would see the resistor value and set the pilot correctly. While a Type-1 station with this adapter, would set the same pilot signal it always does and it would be up to the car to draw the lower of the cable rating (as indicated by the resistor) or the pilot signal. I'm also curious if you have tried the higher resistor values (corresponding to 20A or 13A) in your adapter and whether the Model S shows that value on the center screen.
Thanks Steve. I'm now realizing how incompletely I've wrapped my head around this stuff. Now that I look at it, the J1772 Proximity pin doesn't go back into the EVSE either. In the J1772 case, the release button (and its two resistor values for on/off) is there to tell the car to stop drawing current when the button is pressed because the handle will likely be yanked out at any moment. Type-2 does not have this issue because the car is controlling the solenoid that locks the handle to the inlet.
With this adapter, the J1772 connection allows the circuit to be broken by pressing the button and yanking it apart at that point. So, the question is, when the J1772 button changes the proximity resistance at the J1772 inlet end of the adapter from 150ohm to 480ohm, what does the car see and is the charging session properly shut down?
With this adapter, the J1772 connection allows the circuit to be broken by pressing the button and yanking it apart at that point. So, the question is, when the J1772 button changes the proximity resistance at the J1772 inlet end of the adapter from 150ohm to 480ohm, what does the car see and is the charging session properly shut down?
The proximity indicator is not connected, so a sudden disconnect relies on the mechanical interface disconnecting the pilot wire before the power lines. I wouldn't recommend pulling the cable under load.
Gabz
Member
so what cables came with the Australia cars ?
did they at least hand out type 2 to type 2 cables for the few type 2 chargers in Australia ?
did they at least hand out type 2 to type 2 cables for the few type 2 chargers in Australia ?
timpoo
Member
No cables come with the Australian cars.
We need the following ASAP:
1. Mobile charger (out hopefully in Jan)
2. J1772 to Type to converter, as most charging stations are J1772 and are likely to continue being so in the near future.
I wrote to Chargepoint. Here is their reply. Anyone else want to write to them? The more enquiries and pressure, the better. I don't believe that there are a lot of competitor vehicles on the road. I DID see my first BMW i3 last week, all black and not bad looking really. It is the multicolour ones that look garish.
"Thanks for the enquiry. ChargePoint has been operating in Australia since 2009 supplying a range of charging stations and network services for the purposes of recharging electric vehicles. Since our initial launch, we have adopted the SAEJ1772 charging standard for all our Level 2 charging stations. While this standard has not been endorsed by all the OEM vehicle manufacturers in the Australian market, it has certainly been adopted by the vast majority and hence why ChargePoint has elected to adopt this charging standard.
Unfortunately Tesla has elected to import vehicles into Australia which are not compatible with the SAEJ1772 charging standard. In order for these vehicles to utilise our stations, a charging adapter will be required. If you would like additional information on such a product, I would suggest contacting Tesla.
If you require any further information, please feel free to get back in touch.
Kind regards,
The ChargePoint Team"
"Thanks for the enquiry. ChargePoint has been operating in Australia since 2009 supplying a range of charging stations and network services for the purposes of recharging electric vehicles. Since our initial launch, we have adopted the SAEJ1772 charging standard for all our Level 2 charging stations. While this standard has not been endorsed by all the OEM vehicle manufacturers in the Australian market, it has certainly been adopted by the vast majority and hence why ChargePoint has elected to adopt this charging standard.
Unfortunately Tesla has elected to import vehicles into Australia which are not compatible with the SAEJ1772 charging standard. In order for these vehicles to utilise our stations, a charging adapter will be required. If you would like additional information on such a product, I would suggest contacting Tesla.
If you require any further information, please feel free to get back in touch.
Kind regards,
The ChargePoint Team"
Perhaps a supplied adaptor at the charging station. Fixed so it can't be removed (permanently borrowed), of course. The technical details would be theirs to work out.
Don't they want the largest ownership base of electric vehicles to use their network? Poor business decision i would think.
You all need to work on that one to make sure it does not continue. The same has happened in NZ by default due to the Leaf being the most commonly sold EV. We are turning it around by talking to the right people over here.
J1772 is a joke for public chargers unless you want to sit there with your Tesla for days.
Type 2 is the default European standard and you can get 100km/hr charge into a Model S with a 32A 3phase Type 2.
You can also easily charge any J1772 vehicle from the same EVSE with a Type2 to Type 1 lead. It doesn't work very quickly the other way around.
Gabz
Member
how in what logic is 10 cars delivered the largest ownership base ? your potentially the largest but Tesla has to deliver more than 1000 cars to get close to you making that claim. Tesla isn't even the largest ownership base worldwide... Nissan have that title.
chargepoint is an american company which is why all their hardware is J1772 they even use american CHAdeMO gear which requires a 240 to 110 volt transformer to work. the Australia arm subs company of nbn co main contractor. visionstream, i assume when visionstream made the decision 5 years ago the idea that tesla would come to australia was small and the idea that they would use european standard equipment was smaller.
Your better of talking to the site owner because chargepoint sell the charger to the site owner and then charge a yearly network access fee. so even if chargepoint released new hardware site would have to pay to upgrade or swap out.
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WhiteStar
Member
Chargepoint currently have around 97 charge stations nationally of which 3 are DC fast charge CHAdeMO, 83 are Level 2 & 11 are Level 1. Considering that Elon has stated publicly that Supercharger sites cost in the order of US$150,000 up to US$300,000 for solar sites, even taking into account higher costs in Australia, a much smaller number than 97 stations would provide ample capacity into the future, medium term at least. That's a great investment.
J1772 (Type 1) does not support 3 phase power. Mennekes (Type 2) supports three phase and is a better fit for the Australian market because we inherited a UK standard grid. However the EV Manufacturers decided that Australia is a part of Asia and as result defaulted to the J1772 standard.
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How much are Tesla charging for the "mobile charger". The proper term for this is an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment).
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Car side Type 2 (Mennekes) to charging station side type 1 (J1772) conversion cables are very hard to come by, in fact they are non existent as far as I can see.
I can supply a single phase EVSE for the Tesla with selectable current of 6, 8, 10, 13, 16A.
The car side connector is Type 2 (Mennekes). The wall side connector is a 15 amp plug.
You can select 10 amps and use the Jaycar portable RCD with 15A to 10A mains plug conversion unit if there is no 15 amp socket available
Link: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS4044
Don't forget, superchargers aren't the only option either. Tesla has given away a large number of HPWC's in the US for businesses to install themselves as well.
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That's not really true. Tesla can charge off of J1772 at up to 20kW and Type 2 3-phase at up to 22kW, so there isn't much difference (now what the chargers actually supply is up to the installation, 6.6kW is the most common because that's all the Leaf can take). An adapter is what is needed (an adapter is needed in the US for J1772 as well, but it's supplied with the car).
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