Model 3 Only 1 Screen Officially

[davidc18]

I am expecting that there is no HUD and the 15 inch screen is it. I don't see any issues with this setup.

 

[Az_Rael]

I think his gist is your previous vehicle had physical instruments and pretty much physical instruments are the only type which would not need a "reboot" and a failure of a single dial would not necessarily mean a total failure of the whole cluster.

I have owned other vehicles with full digital screen speedometers/instrument clusters and never had to reboot those, so I think making a rock solid instrument cluster is not a high bar even when not using physical gauges. Tesla owners are used to the quirks, but it is true a IC lockup and reboot might be concerning to the typical car buyer coming from other makes.

 

[Model 3]

I thought the Fiat and Mini Cooper did, but I just checked and both cars have dedicated driver gauges for speed, fuel level, etc.

 

[Sonny Daze]

If there are any bugs or performance issues on that screen, people will lose confidence when driving the Model 3. I would feel very wary if I ever saw my speedometer lag out. It's unsettling to even think about now.

As far as the speedo goes, I only use that to prevent getting a speeding ticket. As a teen I drove for months without a working speedometer. However, I would not feel comfortable if the only screen providing information went blank.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I have owned other vehicles with full digital screen speedometers/instrument clusters and never had to reboot those, so I think making a rock solid instrument cluster is not a high bar even when not using physical gauges. Tesla owners are used to the quirks, but it is true a IC lockup and reboot might be concerning to the typical car buyer coming from other makes.

I think it depends on which type. There are ones where the only thing showing is pretty much the speedometer (and other basic stuff like tachometer/odometer, fuel gauge etc), so the likelihood of that freezing and rebooting is unlikely (given simplicity).

But ones where it integrates other applications (including nav) and have the entire cluster as digital (basically the cluster is a full computer), it may freeze and need a reboot.

Audi's virtual cockpit is an example:
Cockpit crashing, data link dying - AudiWorld Forums

 

[brianman]

Tesla never goes backwards, only forwards.

This tends to making parking lots and driveways difficult.

 

[ecarfan]

18 seconds until the reboot can begin and then 12 seconds to reboot. Again, like the previous owner mentioned, not the end of the world. But this is something that should be reliable and shouldn't be ever freezing/resetting.

I provided my personal experience and estimated number of driver display and center display reboots in over 3 years of ownership. Should Tesla continue to work on reducing the incidence of spontaneous display reboots? Of course, and I'm sure that is ongoing. Are spontaneous display reboots dangerous? I don't think so.

I am not saying that it is okay for Tesla to tolerate occasional reboots. They need to work to reduce reboots to a minimum. Will they ever get to zero incidence? I doubt it and I'm pretty sure that other cars with complex displays and processors have the same issue, though I have no data on that.

My suggestion to you is to find a local Tesla owner and ask to ride with them while they initiate a reboot so you can experience it directly. I think you will find that it is not the unsafe and/or dangerous issue you appear to believe it is. It can take 15 to 30 seconds. Years ago when I first learned that the steering wheel controls can be used to reboot the displays I initiated some reboots just to experience them. Odd the first time, boring the second time.

Note that the firmware that controls the steering and drivetrain is completely separate from the firmware running the displays and is unaffected when the displays reboot.

 

[gregincal]

Thankfully, Elon Musk doesn't think like that. At 19:30.

>So I think that’s an important thing to do, and then also to really pay attention to negative feedback, and solicit it, particularly from friends. This may sound like simple advice, but hardly anyone does that, and it’s incredibly helpful.

Asking for speedometers to work as reliably they have the past 15 years...is not a high bar. Nobody said they should move to physical instruments. Who said that? Who are you replying to? Where is it shown that physical instruments are more reliable than digital instruments? Where are you getting these points from? I'd like some sources.

All I have said is that, to increase mass market consumer confidence, the speedometer (and Autopilot information, etc.) would be best on a dedicated as-close-as-failsafe-as-possible viewing area. There's no issue with digital screens and, out of personal preference, I'd not want any physical instruments in the Model 3.

See arnis' mock-up image above--in my mind, that gives a stronger feeling of comfort and reliability and confidence.

See this video:

18 seconds until the reboot can begin and then 12 seconds to reboot. Again, like the previous owner mentioned, not the end of the world. But this is something that should be reliable and shouldn't be ever freezing/resetting.

Nobody's claiming a single screen is going to significantly hurt the Model 3's reception, but I think it's a key point to be wary of when the Model 3 launches: are there further reliabilities in the screen/UI/OS to avoid these mishaps? What failsafe measures have been implemented?

What I'm replying to is:

OK, right: that's 5 losses of the speedometer over 55k miles. My current car, far cheaper than a Model 3, has over 70k miles and I've never lost my speedometer. Ever.

Absolutely. It's a loss of safety in my mind, though: I can't see what Autopilot is sensing, I can't see any errors (tire pressure, airbags, battery errors), I don't know if my turn signals are operating (maybe the clicks are enough?), etc.

How many losses of these functions are acceptable in a car? What's the limit? Maybe we have different limits.

You seem to be saying the fact that the person had his Model S speedometer display reboot 5 times was unacceptable. For some reason you seem to think a video screen behind the steering wheel is somehow more reliable than a center mounted video screen, when in fact they are running basically the same software and either can require rebooting. Obviously you want the screens to be as reliable as possible, but it could be argued that the simplicity of a single screen would lead to greater reliability than two screens.

 

[Az_Rael]

But ones where it integrates other applications (including nav) and have the entire cluster as digital (basically the cluster is a full computer)

Mine was this type in a Chevy Volt. Never had it freeze or reboot on me in 45k miles. I dont even know if there is a user initiated reboot procedure for the Volt. Maybe I was just lucky.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Mine was this type in a Chevy Volt. Never had it freeze or reboot on me in 45k miles. I dont even know if there is a user initiated reboot procedure for the Volt. Maybe I was just lucky.

First result on google shows a thread about a Volt cluster failure and suggestions to do a reboot procedure. It's not that uncommon as there seems to be plenty of similar threads at the GM-Volt forums (some of which require a full cluster replacement because the cluster kept blanking out).
Google

So that seems to confirm my suspicion that any full digital cluster that runs a full computer is going to be more prone to freezes and quirks that may require a reboot.

 

[CricTic]

@Model 3 I was referring to new cars, not cars built before my parents were born that are being held together with masking tape ;-)

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

Single horizontal screen:

View attachment 216221

View attachment 216220

Not sure that a good way to keep costs down would include crazy rare ultra-wide LCD ratios they have to custom order. Also doesn't make sense to me that they'd take out a relatively cheap part at this time due to the economies of scale (the driver screens they use in Models S/X already) just to replace it with
....nothing. Nvidia presentations show ability to push graphics to three 4K 60fps displays, so I think the "single computer" argument I've seen elsewhere is also silly. Also, Model 3 is most likely not going to be level 4 enabled at launch and one of the main "safety features" Tesla implemented with AP is the screen flashing/nagging messages right in you peripheral vision, which you lose with a screen off to the side. Not saying there's definitely a HUD, but I'd say it's likely.

 

[Sonny Daze]

Not sure that a good way to keep costs down would include crazy rare ultra-wide LCD ratios they have to custom order. Also doesn't make sense to me that they'd take out a relatively cheap part at this time due to the economies of scale (the driver screens they use in Models S/X already) just to replace it with
....nothing. Nvidia presentations show ability to push graphics to three 4K 60fps displays, so I think the "single computer" argument I've seen elsewhere is also silly. Also, Model 3 is most likely not going to be level 4 enabled at launch and one of the main "safety features" Tesla implemented with AP is the screen flashing/nagging messages right in you peripheral vision, which you lose with a screen off to the side. Not saying there's definitely a HUD, but I'd say it's likely.

Agree HUD is most likely... just wanted to throw out a possible solution (no matter how unlikely) that would please both the anti-HUD and anti-center screen crowds.

 

[vinnie97]

As a current gen III Prius (C) owner, I have not warmed to that ugly extended square display in the center and probably never will. On the other hand, every time I see the rear end of a gen IV Prius, I have to wonder what the buyer (and Toyota) were thinking in a state of combined horror and nausea.

 

[electracity]

Has this been posted?

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[S3XY]

Yes, back when it first came out.

 

[alseTrick]

With modern seat belts and airbags I see no safety concerns with the Model 3 center display design as shown in the prototypes last year.

That is not to say that the production version of the 3 could have a different center display design. It very well might. We don't know.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I don't really think a one screen-in-the-middle set up is very appealing to the general public and the Model 3 is designed to a mass market car, so if there isn't going to be two screens, that pretty much only leaves one option... HUD, which I have not been a fan of in other cars. I am hoping Tesla has something up their sleeves to make HUD more palatable.

 

[alseTrick]

Silicon valley, Autopilot-forefront, brand building Tesla: Why on earth would they ditch that simple but beautiful, highly recognizable AUTOPILOT DISPLAY that all S and X have in their IC?

It shows your lane, your car ahead, your speed limit, whether or not you're TACCin', Auto-Steer'in or approachin' a road barrier

I believe in HUD

Ditching that would certainly be a large step backwards.

 

[alseTrick]

There's a couple things that changed that make it mor
e likely the Model 3 will keep a floating screen:

The S/X screens are pretty similar (same 17 inch, portrait orientation). Model 3 will use a 15 inch landscape orientation and does not need to consider sharing a similar design to older screens (given totally different platform).

The Model 3 dash and front seat position is pushed forward in the car in order to maximize legroom. If you look at the design of the screen, it is away from the dash and toward the driver, such that the entire screen is floating. This is different from the Model X alpha, where it is pretty much on the same plane as the dash (only the top half is floating, bottom is already flush).
What It's Like to Ride in a Tesla Model 3

The positioning of the screen closer to driver serves two purposes: account for a further forward dash position and to have the speedometer larger and more visible in the field of view (given there is only one screen).

So to make the Model 3 screen flush, if they keep in same position, they either have to add a surround or move entire dash forward (which would seem to be more expensive). Or they have to push it toward the dash away from driver (which may cost less, but compromises the design decision made above).

Add a surround? Is that what you're calling a "buildout" specifically around the screen to make it "flush"? Because that would be rather easy and cheap, and not compromise anything. That's all Tesla has to do to decrease the odds of the 3 being labeled a "weird" car.