Model 3 Premium Package is a STEAL (By Tesla standards)

[RobStark]

I think the main reason to package them is to make for better profit margins. But what Tesla doesn't realize is some people might not push through with a purchase because of budget concerns. Not everyone of us can afford (or want to) finance a S or X as they are easily double to triple the amount of a decent ICE vehicle with all the safety features.

Tesla realizes raising prices and reducing option flexibility reduces demand.

But Tesla can't fulfill the demand it currently has.

They are ok losing potential customers that want to spend closer to the base price and sell more cars to people that want $42k plus Model 3s.

 

[internalaudit]

Tesla realizes raising prices and reducing option flexibility reduces demand.

But Tesla can't fulfill the demand it currently has.

They are ok losing potential customers that want to spend closer to the base price and sell more cars to people that want $42k plus Model 3s.

Tesla cannot likely meet their production numbers and have no choice but to alienate many potential customers. The company is always too optimistic in my view.

Many are predicating their purchases based on full federal tax incentive.

I am okay going with other BEV too once range is around 250.

Once other makers come in droves, Tesla will regret alienating some if these people because most people currently have no option but in the next few years, they will.

 

[RobStark]

Tesla cannot likely meet their production numbers and have no choice but to alienate many potential customers. The company is always too optimistic in my view.

Many are predicating their purchases based on full federal tax incentive.

I am okay going with other BEV too once range is around 250.

Once other makers come in droves, Tesla will regret alienating some if these people because most people currently have no option but in the next few years, they will.

Every legacy automaker is regretting not making a good electric vehicle because I will never buy a car that is not a Tesla.

Tesla's customer base is growing 50% plus per year.

And over 92% of current Tesla customers say they will definitely buy another Tesla when it comes time to buying another vehicle.

There will be a lot of automaker bankruptcies in the next 15 years. Tesla will not be one of them.

 

[voip-ninja]

I think the main reason to package them is to make for better profit margins. But what Tesla doesn't realize is some people might not push through with a purchase because of budget concerns. Not everyone of us can afford (or want to) finance a S or X as they are easily double to triple the amount of a decent ICE vehicle with all the safety features.

You have a point though that Tesla's manufacturing is not the flexible.

For our 16 RAV4 Hybrid with technology package, Canadians got heated steering wheels but not Americans; while Americans got TPMS (mandatory in the US) whereas our vehicles didn't.

It seems Toyota Japan is so flexible in manufacturing that they'd rather slightly retool than give a part/feature out for free (or maybe just charge us a few hundred dollars more).

Tesla is not competing with Honda or Toyota. They are competing with Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

Go to a BMW forum and witness the hand wringing of someone over the $47,000 a mid optioned 330i costs and how it is still missing features found in a $30K accord or Camry.

Then get back to me about how Tesla is going to drive people away because their $49,000 EV didn't ship with a heated steering wheel.

 

[sneakypotato]

I don't really have a problem with the Premium Upgrades, or the pricing. I can see how people might want more customization or the ability to pick and choose, but we have that ability on the Model S. I'd prefer that the Model 3 be more available and cost-effective for people, even if that means bundling premium options into one package to make manufacturing cheaper. Sure, it would be awesome to pick and choose everything, but I feel like the PUP is reasonable for what you're getting. I probably would have still paid for the package even if it only included the audio, cabin materials, and roof.

 

[internalaudit]

Every legacy automaker is regretting not making a good electric vehicle because I will never buy a car that is not a Tesla.

Tesla's customer base is growing 50% plus per year.

And over 92% of current Tesla customers say they will definitely buy another Tesla when it comes time to buying another vehicle.

There will be a lot of automaker bankruptcies in the next 15 years. Tesla will not be one of them.

Lol. Good for you and Tesla. Let's see if quality will be better on the 3 or if it will be a money pit for many upcoming customers.

Many other automakers are just waiting for battery technology to improve. There will be no bankruptcy unless Tesla become very reliable. Fuel savings alone will not compensate for potential shoddy workmanship. Depreciation and maintenance eat up more money than gasoline expenditures.

What did Tesla invent that is impossible to replicate?

Heck, all Toyota does is remove the engine and slap on a bigger battery on its hybrid line. So does others who have hybrid line ups.

 

[internalaudit]

Tesla is not competing with Honda or Toyota. They are competing with Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

Go to a BMW forum and witness the hand wringing of someone over the $47,000 a mid optioned 330i costs and how it is still missing features found in a $30K accord or Camry.

Then get back to me about how Tesla is going to drive people away because their $49,000 EV didn't ship with a heated steering wheel.

A lot of people considering the Tesla have shied away from German cars, myself included.

500k reservations can't be all coming from current German car owners because I am not one.

If you have evidence that 80% are German car owners or entry level luxury car owners, do provide your support.

Let's see how this BEV roll out among car makers.

$49k is reasonable and a bargain if the 3 doesn't turn out a money pit for most owners.

Until then, there's really not much to debate on.

I usually only respond to reinforce my statement when someone quotes me. I am not trying to persuade anyone but am not easy to get persuaded by mere words too.

 

[Zaphod]

A lot of people considering the Tesla have shied away from German cars, myself included.

500k reservations can't be all coming from current German car owners because I am not one.

If you have evidence that 80% are German car owners or entry level luxury car owners, do provide your support.

Let's see how this BEV roll out among car makers.

$49k is reasonable and a bargain if the 3 doesn't turn out a money pit for most owners.

Until then, there's really not much to debate on.

I usually only respond to reinforce my statement when someone quotes me. I am not trying to persuade anyone but am not easy to get persuaded by mere words too.

Long time Audi owner here. If Audi had something like the Model 3, I most likely would not be even looking at Tesla.

 

[voip-ninja]

A lot of people considering the Tesla have shied away from German cars, myself included.

500k reservations can't be all coming from current German car owners because I am not one.

If you have evidence that 80% are German car owners or entry level luxury car owners, do provide your support.

Let's see how this BEV roll out among car makers.

$49k is reasonable and a bargain if the 3 doesn't turn out a money pit for most owners.

Until then, there's really not much to debate on.

I usually only respond to reinforce my statement when someone quotes me. I am not trying to persuade anyone but am not easy to get persuaded by mere words too.

I don't have evidence that 80% of reservation holders are coming from German car owners.

I have evidence that Elon Musk himself has said that BMW & Mercedes are who Tesla views as their primary competitors.

Musk has pointedly said that he's not building a "2 series" car anytime soon. Tesla wants to build higher end cars and have offered their patents royalty free to other manufacturers who want to build a different kind of car that meets a different kind of need.

I think there are plenty of people driving Prius/Accord/Altima who heard "$35,000 Tesla" and jumped to put their pre-order in. A relatively small number of people with that budget will qualify for the tax credits. Some of those people will also be disappointed at what is missing on the entry level model 3 compared to non EV offerings from other manufacturers at a similar price point.

 

[MP3Mike]

I can see how people might want more customization or the ability to pick and choose, but we have that ability on the Model S.

@sneakypotato Not any more. Tesla has rolled almost everything into the PUP package on the Model S/X as well. (I think the exceptions are the sunroof and the premium seating materials.)

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Every legacy automaker is regretting not making a good electric vehicle because I will never buy a car that is not a Tesla.

Tesla's customer base is growing 50% plus per year.

And over 92% of current Tesla customers say they will definitely buy another Tesla when it comes time to buying another vehicle.

There will be a lot of automaker bankruptcies in the next 15 years. Tesla will not be one of them.

The only thing that makes Tesla stand out is that the other manufacturers have simply chosen not to offer something similar yet.

But this is about to change.
BMW said that they`d offer their 3 and 5 series fully electrified starting 2019-2020, and Mercedes and Audi want to ship their pure EVs starting mid 2018 - early 2019, cudos to Tesla for making this happen.
I´m really curious as to how long Tesla will be able to stick to the EV crown when the real premium manufacturers start equipping their cars with similar powertrains.

To be honest, I wouldn`t even be looking at a Model 3 if Mercedes offered their C/E-Class as an EV.

The 2015 Model S I´m driving from time to time is definitely an incredibly fun car thanks to its powertrain, but man, everything else definitely doesn`t look/feel like a 100k+ car, every 5 series/e-class for half the money declassifies Tesla quality wise.....Tesla may be great visionaires, but their manufacturing skills are definitely not worth the premium price (yet?)

 

[voip-ninja]

The only thing that makes Tesla stand out is that the other manufacturers have simply chosen not to offer something similar yet.

BMW f.e. said that they`d offer their 3 and 5 series fully electrified in 2020, cudos to Tesla for making this happen.
But let`s see how long Tesla got the EV crown when real premium quality is available in combination with a similar powertrain.

If Mercedes offered a real EV C-Class I wouldn`t even be looking at Tesla.....
The Model S I´m driving from time to time is definitely an incredibly fun car thanks to its powertrain, but man, everything else definitely doesn`t look like premium....

I agree, sit in a 5 series or 7 series or Mercedes E class, then sit in the Model S. It is .... lacking in the refinement area.

Tesla will be on top for quite some time due to the supercharger network, which was a brilliant stroke in differentiating them from their competition at least in the USA.

If I could get a BMW 3 series with a fully electrified power train I would probably be getting that over the Tesla... but the promise of Tesla autonomous driving and super charger network would likely leave me waffling a bit.

 

[sneakypotato]

@sneakypotato Not any more. Tesla has rolled almost everything into the PUP package on the Model S/X as well. (I think the exceptions are the sunroof and the premium seating materials.)

I did not know this, thanks for the correction. It must all be for the sake of faster/smoother production?

 

[gambit48]

The only thing that makes Tesla stand out is that the other manufacturers have simply chosen not to offer something similar yet.

But this is about to change.
BMW said that they`d offer their 3 and 5 series fully electrified starting 2019-2020, and Mercedes and Audi want to ship their pure EVs starting mid 2018 - early 2019, cudos to Tesla for making this happen.
I´m really curious as to how long Tesla will be able to stick to the EV crown when the real premium manufacturers start equipping their cars with similar powertrains.

To be honest, I wouldn`t even be looking at a Model 3 if Mercedes offered their C/E-Class as an EV.

The 2015 Model S I´m driving from time to time is definitely an incredibly fun car thanks to its powertrain, but man, everything else definitely doesn`t look/feel like a 100k+ car, every 5 series/e-class for half the money declassifies Tesla quality wise.....Tesla may be great visionaires, but their manufacturing skills are definitely not worth the premium price (yet?)

Germany may be a little similar, but in the US, the biggest advantage of going with Tesla over waiting for the regular car companies is the Supercharger network. We have large distances to cover over much of the country. That supercharger network is pretty critical in taking away a major pain point. It's part of the reason our cell phones don't get the speed and coverage other nations get. We just have some vast distances that are difficult to cover.

It would take some major, major coordination from some group of competitors to build out a universal type of supercharger network. I don't see that happening for years and years. By the time that becomes viable (if ever), my Model 3 should be ready to be replaced. For the foreseeable future, Tesla's proprietary Supercharger network is a great way to keep it's buyers captive.

 

[internalaudit]

I don't have evidence that 80% of reservation holders are coming from German car owners.

I have evidence that Elon Musk himself has said that BMW & Mercedes are who Tesla views as their primary competitors.

Musk has pointedly said that he's not building a "2 series" car anytime soon. Tesla wants to build higher end cars and have offered their patents royalty free to other manufacturers who want to build a different kind of car that meets a different kind of need.

I think there are plenty of people driving Prius/Accord/Altima who heard "$35,000 Tesla" and jumped to put their pre-order in. A relatively small number of people with that budget will qualify for the tax credits. Some of those people will also be disappointed at what is missing on the entry level model 3 compared to non EV offerings from other manufacturers at a similar price point.

I guess EM is right because in terms of quality and reliability, Tesla is likely at least slightly better than those two, perhaps owing to issues relating to the engines and transmissions.

I don't think we can categorize with certainty household income and wealth by the cars the members drive though. Many middle income household lease luxury German cars while there are going to be a handful of affluent households who opt for more reliable models, even if they're staider and drive less exciting. Tesla is offering eight year warranties just like Apple is offering a layaway 24-month financing policy to encourage more users.

Not everything is about cars for many people (probably many would rather invest the leftover sum in income generating investments) but the allure of zero emissions, instant torque and potentially higher reliability over luxury cars is probably piquing a lot of interests.

 

[voip-ninja]

I guess EM is right because in terms of quality and reliability, Tesla is likely at least slightly better than those two, perhaps owing to issues relating to the engines and transmissions.

I don't think we can categorize with certainty household income and wealth by the cars the members drive though. Many middle income household lease luxury German cars while there are going to be a handful of affluent households who opt for more reliable models, even if they're staider and drive less exciting. Tesla is offering eight year warranties just like Apple is offering a layaway 24-month financing policy to encourage more users.

Not everything is about cars for many people (probably many would rather invest the leftover sum in income generating investments) but the allure of zero emissions, instant torque and potentially higher reliability over luxury cars is probably piquing a lot of interests.

My completely non-scientific analysis of Tesla buyers is that they roughly break down into three categories.

1. Tesla is super sexy and exclusive and I want one!
2. EV reliability and performance.
3. I want to save the planet.

Most people ordering a M3 I think fit into one or more of these categories.

The biggest contribution Tesla has made to renewable energy is making electric cars sexy.

For every person who can afford to buy a sexy high performance car but instead chooses boring reliable and affordable transportation there are 10 people who buy/lease more car than they really can afford.

It's what makes this country great. People can decide for themselves what their priorities are.

 

[North75]

I agree, sit in a 5 series or 7 series or Mercedes E class, then sit in the Model S. It is .... lacking in the refinement area.

Tesla will be on top for quite some time due to the supercharger network, which was a brilliant stroke in differentiating them from their competition at least in the USA.

If I could get a BMW 3 series with a fully electrified power train I would probably be getting that over the Tesla... but the promise of Tesla autonomous driving and super charger network would likely leave me waffling a bit.

For what price though? Are you assuming an all electric BMW 3 series would be priced similar to the gas powered versions? What if it winds up being a $15K premium?
Don't forget BMW already makes an all electric vehicle, and its not all that competitive. (especially from a price/range distance perspective)

 

[voip-ninja]

For what price though? Are you assuming an all electric BMW 3 series would be priced similar to the gas powered versions? What if it winds up being a $15K premium?
Don't forget BMW already makes an all electric vehicle, and its not all that competitive. (especially from a price/range distance perspective)

It doesn't really matter because that hypothetical vehicle does not yet exist, and by the time it does, the $12,500 state and federal rebate that has me salivating will no longer exist.

I will buy the M3 in RWD configuration, take full advantage of the tax incentives, and drive it for 2-3 years and see where the market is. If I end up flipping it then my TCO will be quite low due to projected high resale value coupled with incentives.

In 2-3 years the market is going to look very different than it does today and Tesla will have much more competition. They will also have had a chance to continue refining their vehicle and self-driving capabilities.... will have larger battery offerings with faster recharge times, performance AWD, etc.

 

[siggyfreud]

I'm still waiting for the day when other automakers realize that you don't have to make an electric car look like a shoe. The Volt 2.0 is the closest thing outside of Tesla that we have to a "normal" looking electric car. Taste is subjective, sure, but seems like every other electric car out there looks like a smooshed shoe to me, and it's led to this general idea that you have to buy an electric car, as opposed to a good looking car that happens to be electric, if that makes sense.

 

[K-MTG]

I just hope the leather like seats are included with the premium package and that you don't have to pay an additional $3k like you have to do with the S

 

[chronopc]

I'm still waiting for the day when other automakers realize that you don't have to make an electric car look like a shoe. The Volt 2.0 is the closest thing outside of Tesla that we have to a "normal" looking electric car. Taste is subjective, sure, but seems like every other electric car out there looks like a smooshed shoe to me, and it's led to this general idea that you have to buy an electric car, as opposed to a good looking car that happens to be electric, if that makes sense.

The electric car design that surprises me the most is the BMW i3. The ICE BMW has such a nice design language. Not sure why they didn't stick to that when designing the i3.