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Model 3 Supercharging Capability?
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- Model 3 Supercharging
Chuq
Active Member
And that's fine, if Elon had've said "All Model 3s will be supercharger capable, but it will not be enabled by default in the base model".
But he gave a very generic statement which, to most people will suggest that supercharging will work the exact same way as the S/X. Only if you look over the statement like a lawyer would you suspect that this is not the case. That's what I have a problem with.
I think the 3 Supercharging capability will be like the S: included in all cars and at no charge. Tesla has demonstrated that business model is sustainable and the cost of the Supercharger network is a very minor cost to the company. What the 3 lacks in profit margins compared to the S/X it will make up in volume.
Elon said a lot of things that later were not exactly like that. He used the word 'standard' but now the website says 'capable'. He said delivery starts "next year", now the website says "starting by the end of 2017". He even had to laugh himself when he talked about the delivery date. I'd say a lot of things will change between now and two years from now when the Model 3 will actually be delivered.
jim3cantos
Member
One thing is supercharging capability and another thing is supercharger usage. The missing word "free" from Elon words and in the web page is clearly indicating that supercharging use will not be for free (at least in the base model)
The exact words were "All Model 3s will come with Supercharging standard" -- this is at 11:45 of the attached video.
The idea that by "standard" supercharging Elon meant supercharging comes "standard" but then you have to pay to use it is highly unlikely. At some point they may impose a fee for excessive use, etc., and I guess the website language ("supercharger capable") gives Tesla a little wiggle room to limit excessive or commercial use but I very seriously doubt superchargers will become a fee for use model when the Model 3 is released.
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That's probably not going to happen and for a very good reason - it won't do much to solve the congestion issue. Whenever you let customers choose an option for services, they will always choose the best service for their needs. So those that want to charge every single day will pick the up-front option. Those that will take <1 road trip per year will do the pay as you go scheme. So you'll have just as many people using it, and you'll lose money to boot.
So expect a one-time fee or pay as you go. I like pay as you go - we area all already used to paying for gas so there shouldn't be a PR issue if it's pay as you go. All Tesla needs to do is charge just enough to discourage local charging rates but have it cheaper than gas (so like $0.25/kWh) and they're good to go.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The free for life model (lump sum additional cost or factored into the initial price) doesn't properly capture the used car market and these cars lasting longer since there are less moving parts.
It'd be so interesting to be a fly on the wall at Tesla meetings about this.
It'd be so interesting to be a fly on the wall at Tesla meetings about this.
kaess
Member
There is a difference between "Supercharger Capable" and "Supercharger Enabled". If you look at the options list of any 70 kWh, 85 kWh, or 90 kWh Model S, you will see "Supercharger Enabled" as a line item option.
The Tesla Supercharging Support page (Supercharging) provides clarity on this distinction:
How do I know if my car can Supercharge?
All 90kWh, 85 kWh, 70 kWh Model S and Supercharging-enabled 60kWh cars are capable of Supercharging. Contact Tesla Service at (877) 798-3752 (international phone numbers) if you would like to enable the Supercharger option.
How much does it cost to use the Superchargers?
Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled.
The Tesla Supercharging Support page (Supercharging) provides clarity on this distinction:
How do I know if my car can Supercharge?
All 90kWh, 85 kWh, 70 kWh Model S and Supercharging-enabled 60kWh cars are capable of Supercharging. Contact Tesla Service at (877) 798-3752 (international phone numbers) if you would like to enable the Supercharger option.
How much does it cost to use the Superchargers?
Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled.
Chuq
Active Member
Looks like enabled and capable mean the same thing in this context. (Of course I understand the suggestions being made that capable=hardware installed, enabled=software activated - but this quote only serves to confuse the matter!)
kaess
Member
That being said... Elon was very explicit in the unveiling when he said, "And with regard to Supercharging.... All Model 3s will come with Supercharging, Standard". I think it is fair to interpret this statement as "All Model 3s will come standard with Supercharging enabled".
Personally, I would not mind a pay-per-use model since the speed of charging is a convenience.
Snowdog
Member
Quote from someone who conacted Tesla PR:
Superchargers for Model 3
"The quote I got from Tesla PR is: "All Model 3 will have the capability for Supercharging. We haven't specified (and aren't right now) whether supercharging will be free." "
I take that as a strong indication that it won't be free.
Also note, this thread just seems to be a repeat of that one.
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GKwey
Member
M3 comes with supercharging standard. But to use superchargers free for the life of your M3, you have to pay, mostly likely $2K, for such an option. Elon only said M3 comes with supercharging standard, he was very careful not to say M3 comes with free supercharging for the life of the car. Quite a few people are able to read into what he said between the lines.
Elon also said he expects average M3 price to be around $42K. I dare to offer he figured most people would add free supercharging and auto pilot. These 2 options together would add $4,500 to the $35,000 base price. Add documentation fees and pay for your favorite color ($1,000 to $1,500) now you have a ~$42,000 very capable utilitarian fast car.
If you want leather seats, auto lift, premium interior, premium stereo, dual wheel drive, bigger wheel, better performance ; it will cost you. But you can have a very luxury compact sport sedan if you have the money.
Even if you don't have deep pocket, I agree with Elon M3 still is the best car you can buy with $35,000 (even without free lifelong supercharging and auto pilot, that is).
Elon also said he expects average M3 price to be around $42K. I dare to offer he figured most people would add free supercharging and auto pilot. These 2 options together would add $4,500 to the $35,000 base price. Add documentation fees and pay for your favorite color ($1,000 to $1,500) now you have a ~$42,000 very capable utilitarian fast car.
If you want leather seats, auto lift, premium interior, premium stereo, dual wheel drive, bigger wheel, better performance ; it will cost you. But you can have a very luxury compact sport sedan if you have the money.
Even if you don't have deep pocket, I agree with Elon M3 still is the best car you can buy with $35,000 (even without free lifelong supercharging and auto pilot, that is).
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I doubt many proponents of 'Free' supercharging want it to be 'free' out of a sense of entitlement... they want ~$2k from the sale of every car to go toward building the network. Free isn't Free it's 'Free'. When Tesla says that haven't decided wether Supercharging will be free another way of interpreting that is.... we haven't decided if we'll allow you to opt out of supporting the network. IMO $2k is a small price to pay for the freedom superchargers provide... even if it's only the perception of something you could do but never do like driving coast to coast.
Pay-per-use doesn't work... there really isn't a reasonable rate to charge per use that would generate anywhere near as much revenue to build out the network as much as a quick infusion of $2k when the car is sold. You're not paying for the electricity... that's a rounding error compared to the cost of the infrastructure.
How long do you think it would take the average driver to spend $2k on supercharging? You get caught in a catch 22... there will be ~500k new model 3s looking for supercharger in 2021. Collecting $2k/car sold means that there's $1B available to expand and maintain the network.
Chuq
Active Member
This is exactly right. The stations need to exist to sell the cars. (Well they don't *need* to - thanks, Roadster and early Model S owners - but it helps!)
I noticed you didn't mention bigger (biggest?) battery, which aside from supercharging is really the only must have feature in my case. Supercharging would hopefully be included in the price of that add-on.
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