Model 3 Wh/km

[svp6]

repeated the test today - a little colder (26F) but no wind. Got same 350 Wh/mile.

So for our Canadian friends -3.3C, 218 Wh/km. I had a very similar drive with our previous RWD M3 earlier this year (on same winter tires - the 19" Tesla wheels + Pirelli Sottozero). The RWD did 313 Wh/mile (195 Wh/km).

 

[Blu-Ion]

Parked at airport for 36 hours, lost 15km of range... Seriously? This is a huge problem, and why I say the wh calculation is just BS, it only captures energy consumption while moving, really irrelevant when you lose 15km of range per day while parked.
I do have deep sleep enabled with TeslaFi, app doesn't seem to improve phantom losses

 

[Pescakl1]

Was it cold when you got the car back?

You may have "lost" 15 km of range because the battery was cold and got it back (or a big portion of it) after the battery was warned up, just an idea...

 

[Trevlan006]

Today drove out to Niagara Falls and around the are and back to toronto and then back to Mississauga for 380 km today and did 131wh/km EAP max 100km chill mode no heat only drover seat, left with 407km in the AM and when I was at Sherway Supercharger I was showing 55km left for total driving equals 435 for a gain of 28km , I was having fun.

My lifetime for 4800km is 262wh/km

Other days I have seen loses of 20-30 km on my daily 200 avg km commutes. It was nice to be on the positive this time.

 

[Trevlan006]

Is there no way to edit our post? My spelling errors are as if I am 12 years old. My goodness I am very sorry.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Is there no way to edit our post? My spelling errors are as if I am 12 years old. My goodness I am very sorry.

You have about 15 minutes to edit after posting

 

[Blu-Ion]

TeslaFi info, 27km of range loss on Friday total, but 8km of the range was used to precondition cabin.

Lots of good data on TeslaFi

 

[Blu-Ion]

More data from TelsaFi

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Another reason the drain is so massive maybe the car uploading data back to central. This is a constant as they're developing the NN for FSD. How much of our drive is uploaded is another question. I imagine a drive without any sudden braking/lane changes would (should) be filtered out or a simple (normal drive tag) and skipped for uploading.

 

[Trevlan006]

Is there a fee for the app?
As much as I do not have any issues with paying or supporting. Just hard when we should have these details in the Tesla app IMO

 

[Blu-Ion]

Is there a fee for the app?
As much as I do not have any issues with paying or supporting. Just hard when we should have these details in the Tesla app IMO

Free 2 week trial, $50year

 

[bijan]

Haven't had much time to digest the latest posts from @bijan and @Blu Angel , but want to spend some time on this....like I've said before, in my volt I could 100% leave it parked at an airport for a week and not lose a single km of range. My wife's bolt is the same, we usually only charge it every few days at best, and if we left it for a week it wouldn't lose anything. Its crazy to think that a tesla is considered 'normal' if it looses the equivalent of a gen 2 volt's charge per week.

Just read on Canada Chevy Bolt EV Owners facebook group someone left a bolt at the airport for a week and it lost 10%. Maybe it was in cold weather so battery thermal management and not just random drain, but I guess some idle drain is also a thing for GM cars, but that would be about half the rate of the Model 3 (35-ish watts vs 70-ish watts).

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Just read on Canada Chevy Bolt EV Owners facebook group someone left a bolt at the airport for a week and it lost 10%. Maybe it was in cold weather so battery thermal management and not just random drain, but I guess some idle drain is also a thing for GM cars, but that would be about half the rate of the Model 3 (35-ish watts vs 70-ish watts).

Tesla pings their fleet way more often than other manufacturers for data. Drain is mostly that. Have you left your phone on wifi and Bluetooth unplugged? It'll drain quite a bit if background aps are left hibernating.

 

[bijan]

Tesla pings their fleet way more often than other manufacturers for data. Drain is mostly that. Have you left your phone on wifi and Bluetooth unplugged? It'll drain quite a bit if background aps are left hibernating.

That kind of makes sense, but not quite. It's more likely the main computers or other systems being on. 70 watts or 35 watts is way too high for wifi and bluetooth. A mobile phone will last a whole day with both being on. And a phone battery is maybe 10-12Wh, so Model 3 while sleeping is using over 100 times more power than a phone.

 

[pcons]

Just read on Canada Chevy Bolt EV Owners facebook group someone left a bolt at the airport for a week and it lost 10%. Maybe it was in cold weather so battery thermal management and not just random drain, but I guess some idle drain is also a thing for GM cars, but that would be about half the rate of the Model 3 (35-ish watts vs 70-ish watts).

My wife's bolt has been parked in the driveway not plugged in since Friday at noon, so almost 48 hours. Still shows the exact same estimated range and % battery capacity.

Last night I charged to 350km range, and I kept the model 3 in the garage (so it was at least 10C warmer), and I lost 4km of range, or about 1%.

So over 4x longer than the model 3, and while parked inside vs the bolt being parked outside, the bolt has lost 0% while the model 3 has lost 1%.

It admittedly is not a lot, but having driven a volt for 4+ years I've been conditioned to be very frugal with my range (adjusting to the model 3s huge range is a challenge for me to break out of this cycle). But for sure this would have been a massive issue for me on the Volt. On the model 3 it is more of a curiosity.

However, it is a bit annoying that I'm losing this charge. Over the course of the year this will amount to about 610 kwh of electricity lost while sitting idle, or about 4,000km of range... That's about $80 on off peak rates, not a lot yes....

But consider if this was an ICE car getting 8L/100km that would be about the equivalent of about 327L of gas just evaporating into thin air per year. That's about 20 tanks of gas in my Gen 2 Volt.

 

[bijan]

That's about 20 tanks of gas in my Gen 2 Volt.

Minor nitpick wouldn't that be 10 tanks of gas in a Gen 2 volt as it has a 34L tank?

Also unrelated but on original topic my Wh/km seems to be climbing a lot given the minor decrease in temperature so far.

Looking at drives over 50km:
-5 to 0 C 212.15 Wh/km 65.2% 67.64 km recorded
0 to 5 C 199.06 Wh/km 70.1% 483.68 km recorded
5 to 10 C 180.65 Wh/km 77.3% 1240.49 km recorded
10 to 15 C 166.8 Wh/km 83.5% 1066.64 km recorded
15 to 20 C 162.11 Wh/km 85.4% 251.55 km recorded

Probably not enough data yet... But looks like at -20C or so should be at 50% range/efficiency...

Which would mean I'd have to stop at both Kingston and Cornwall Superchargers on my trips from Toronto to Montreal and back, until Brockville SC is online...

Though might be a bit less on a long trip as regen dots don't completely disappear on medium duration trips. Like the above 67.64km trip when it was below zero.

 

[pcons]

Minor nitpick wouldn't that be 10 tanks of gas in a Gen 2 volt as it has a 34L tank?

Also unrelated but on original topic my Wh/km seems to be climbing a lot given the minor decrease in temperature so far.

Looking at drives over 50km:
-5 to 0 C 212.15 Wh/km 65.2% 67.64 km recorded
0 to 5 C 199.06 Wh/km 70.1% 483.68 km recorded
5 to 10 C 180.65 Wh/km 77.3% 1240.49 km recorded
10 to 15 C 166.8 Wh/km 83.5% 1066.64 km recorded
15 to 20 C 162.11 Wh/km 85.4% 251.55 km recorded

Probably not enough data yet... But looks like at -20C or so should be at 50% range/efficiency...

Which would mean I'd have to stop at both Kingston and Cornwall Superchargers on my trips from Toronto to Montreal and back, until Brockville SC is online...

Though might be a bit less on a long trip as regen dots don't completely disappear on medium duration trips. Like the above 67.64km trip when it was below zero.

Yup, it was a typo and by the time I noticed it was too late to edit. At least I know someone is paying attention to my posts

You are probably not that far off on 50% range at -20C. Cold is the Achilles heal on EVs, and -20 c is pretty extreme.

You would be helped by only having to hear the cabin from -20C once. My wife takes a lot of short trips in the bolt, and it cools off in between, so it's constantly heating, losing while parked, then re heating. Right now our range estimate is only 260km/383km rated = 67%.

You are in Oakville so likely won't have too many days that cold, and the real killer there is the cabin heater. This is where I wish the model 3 had a 'fan only' mode. I found the way to maximize my range in my volt was with a heated 12v blanket and minimal use of heat. I would just use the heat in bursts and then use the residual heat in the heating loop as much as possible. Can't do that in the 3 since you can't just blow the fans without having the heat on.

I also really miss that the bolt and volt both tell you how much energy you used on cabin heat vs propulsion vs battery heat. At -20c a good 25-30% of my energy would go into just heating the air... Takes a lot of joules to heat up the interiors 40C.... Incidentally this is also why A/C in the summer doesn't hit range nearly as much... Takes less energy to drop 10-15C than it takes to rise 40C.

 

[mociaf9]

My wife's bolt has been parked in the driveway not plugged in since Friday at noon, so almost 48 hours. Still shows the exact same estimated range and % battery capacity.

Last night I charged to 350km range, and I kept the model 3 in the garage (so it was at least 10C warmer), and I lost 4km of range, or about 1%.

So over 4x longer than the model 3, and while parked inside vs the bolt being parked outside, the bolt has lost 0% while the model 3 has lost 1%.

It admittedly is not a lot, but having driven a volt for 4+ years I've been conditioned to be very frugal with my range (adjusting to the model 3s huge range is a challenge for me to break out of this cycle). But for sure this would have been a massive issue for me on the Volt. On the model 3 it is more of a curiosity.

However, it is a bit annoying that I'm losing this charge. Over the course of the year this will amount to about 610 kwh of electricity lost while sitting idle, or about 4,000km of range... That's about $80 on off peak rates, not a lot yes....

But consider if this was an ICE car getting 8L/100km that would be about the equivalent of about 327L of gas just evaporating into thin air per year. That's about 20 tanks of gas in my Gen 2 Volt.

I guess my first question is whether the Bolt/Volt's display was accurate? Just because it's not showing any losses doesn't mean that losses haven't occurred. After leaving it unplugged for a while, have you ever tried to drive it and see how the rated range compared to actual achievable? Volt may very well lose less than the Model 3. I'm pretty much sure it does, maybe even a lot less given the respective battery sizes. But I don't see how it can lose 0 in very cold weather unless it doesn't use active thermal protection for the battery. Maybe Chevy's battery chemistry is more forgiving of cold temps than Tesla's so they can get away with less heating. Or maybe they don't baby/nanny the batteries as much as Tesla does and are consequently accepting of more wear and tear. That could make sense in a hybrid where you can still fall back on the ICE for driving. Less sense in the all electric Bolt.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Efficiency is coming down now that I'm blasting the heater for comfort

 

[bijan]

You are in Oakville so likely won't have too many days that cold, and the real killer there is the cabin heater. This is where I wish the model 3 had a 'fan only' mode. I found the way to maximize my range in my volt was with a heated 12v blanket and minimal use of heat. I would just use the heat in bursts and then use the residual heat in the heating loop as much as possible. Can't do that in the 3 since you can't just blow the fans without having the heat on.

What I do is just turn off climate for a while. Can go quite a while with climate off if car is pre-heated/heated. Don't need the fan on. With no regen dots I get about as high efficiency as I did in summer with climate off.

I used to ride my bike in winter and I drive in my winter jacket so I can be comfortable with the car being pretty cool. My wife is the same except she loves the seat heater, which I assume is pretty efficient. I'm guessing other passengers not so much and will have to blast the heat for them.

I don't do it all the time, but sometimes the on-screen wh/km gets so high it annoys me and I have to do something about it