Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

[Arnold Panz]

I received an email from Tesla. VIN 991 rises like the phoenix. My first car was scrapped but it was explained to me that they can use the same VIN for the more recent build.

I also have permission to pass along what is going on with the build out of their communication process:

"...our communication problems are not solved yet, it's a little better but nowhere near what we want it to be. It won't be better until the inside delivery team comes online in early December. The field team just doesn't have the bandwidth to stay in constant contact with customers to the levels needed. When creating this organization we underestimated the level of communication people wanted during the delivery process. We recognized this and that's why we are creating the inside team who will be able to be proactive with customers. It doesn’t happen overnight and we need everyone to be patient for another week or so. I also want to reiterate how appreciative we are of all our customers and thank you for your patience..."

Kroneal,

First, congrats on keeping VIN 991! Glad Tesla could at least do that for you. Hopefully this means that the car isn't as in as bad shape because they're able to use some of the pieces with the VIN in the new build of your car.

I'm also not surprised about the communications issues still not being solved yet. Tesla was clearly caught flat-footed by the communications issues and are working to correct them. It's admirable that they admitted they had a problem and are working to correct it instead of being in denial and doing nothing to fix the issues. It's incredibly unfortunate that its taking time to get things up to speed, and in particular that the timing is impacting the Sigs whose cars ran into unexpected delays because those people above all deserve to have extra TLC from Tesla and it sounds like there is some unevenness in them getting it.

I really hope these issues are resolved by the time Tesla is fully ramped up at the factory because these issues will only grow exponentially if they aren't.

 

[walla2]

I received an email from Tesla. VIN 991 rises like the phoenix. My first car was scrapped but it was explained to me that they can use the same VIN for the more recent build.

I also have permission to pass along what is going on with the build out of their communication process:

"...our communication problems are not solved yet, it's a little better but nowhere near what we want it to be. It won't be better until the inside delivery team comes online in early December. The field team just doesn't have the bandwidth to stay in constant contact with customers to the levels needed. When creating this organization we underestimated the level of communication people wanted during the delivery process. We recognized this and that's why we are creating the inside team who will be able to be proactive with customers. It doesn’t happen overnight and we need everyone to be patient for another week or so. I also want to reiterate how appreciative we are of all our customers and thank you for your patience..."

I am pleased to see all of the bitching now will pay off for future customers/believers. BTW, my delivery specialist emailed me tonight. My car has finished burn in and is now awaiting shipping to the Pacific Northwest. This is the first proactive update sent by Tesla and the third email total that they have sent (preMVPA, delivery details email, and this one). As I have always posted, the core leadership and the employees are solid. They need to work on the technique and execution, and they will succeed.

 

[bonnie]

I am pleased to see all of the bitching now will pay off for future customers/believers.

And this is the difference in our opinion, right here. I know that Tesla was already working on improvement without 'all the bitching' - and that people voicing their displeasure/disappointment in a constructive way was good input - but 'all the bitching' did nothing but make it unpleasant for everyone.

And I'm sure others feel differently.

 

[AnOutsider]

I am pleased to see all of the bitching now will pay off for future customers/believers. BTW, my delivery specialist emailed me tonight. My car has finished burn in and is now awaiting shipping to the Pacific Northwest. This is the first proactive update sent by Tesla and the third email total that they have sent (preMVPA, delivery details email, and this one). As I have always posted, the core leadership and the employees are solid. They need to work on the technique and execution, and they will succeed.

'grats walla! I was also told my car would be shipping soon, though it's still in burn in.

 

[Norbert]

And this is the difference in our opinion, right here. I know that Tesla was already working on improvement without 'all the bitching' - and that people voicing their displeasure/disappointment in a constructive way was good input - but 'all the bitching' did nothing but make it unpleasant for everyone.

+1. The "bitching"-activism is a waste of many things.

 

[Jaff]

Bang on Norbert / well said Bonnie!

+1. The "bitching"-activism is a waste of many things.

 

[teslasguy]

And this is the difference in our opinion, right here. I know that Tesla was already working on improvement without 'all the bitching' - and that people voicing their displeasure/disappointment in a constructive way was good input - but 'all the bitching' did nothing but make it unpleasant for everyone.

And I'm sure others feel differently.

Bonnie, let me start by saying I really am a big fan of yours and I take to heart everything you say.
My concern is that we don't disenfranchise many on here that we might view as "bitching".
It's often not clear to me just where the line is between "constructive criticism" and "bitching".
For example, I recently responded to Dave (dsm363) regarding one of his posts that his "ragging on people was wearing a bit thin on me".
I honestly meant it as constructive criticism, but many here took it negatively.
I received 2 positive relationship feedbacks and 1 negative, so that alone tells us how differently we all see things.
However, after I reread my response i could definitely see how many (including Dave) could have read my comments as a slam.
And so I'd like to apologize here to Dave. No question in my mind that his intent is always good. Just as your comments are always well intended.
That's the problem with email and forum posts. Our real intent is often shadowed by the wording alone.
I personally try viewing all the posts here with good intent, but great passion and often great frustration.
Again, the concern I have is that we don't drown out the voices of the passionate and frustrated.
For example, I don't ever recall anyone here getting slammed for sharing their joy of getting their car, or their previous positive experiences with Tesla.
Likewise, I'd like to see us all try really hard to be as tolerant and supportive as those that are frustrated and feeling disenfranchised.
In all fairness I was guilty of not supporting Dave in the post I responded to. After rereading it it was much clearer to me that he was really trying to empathize rather than to do a negative slam.
My bad!

 

[bonnie]

I only quoted the OP. Walla2 used the term 'bitching'. Good post, teslasguy.

 

[Krugerrand]

Bang on Norbert / well said Bonnie!

Agreed.

 

[Arnold Panz]

Walla2 may have been a bit glib with his phrasing, but his point (I think) is that Tesla, for better or worse, listened to and is responding to some of the negative criticism that they've received, and that's a good thing. Now, it's entirely possible that they would have, without any negative feedback, realized that they had these communcations issues and endeavored to fix them, but I think if all Tesla ever heard from customers was "You're doing a fabulous job! Keep up the great work! Don't worry about contacting me -- I'm OK. We love you!" etc., they wouldn't have necessarily come to the same realization as quickly regarding their needs to beef up the communication processes.

And the more open and honest that Tesla is about these shortcomings, they receive (mostly) kudos rather than continued criticism, which I think demonstrates that almost everyone here is well intentioned, and really wants Tesla to succeed. So when they see Tesla doing things that are unnecessarily frustrating to customers, they rightly call it out. We can question doing so publicly on these fora rather than directly to Tesla (which, as I recall, was always DSM's primary suggestion), but I think the criticisms (i.e., "bitching") has been a net positive for Tesla because it woke them up to something that they had clearly missed in their planning for the delivery process, and better to have that worked out now as opposed to when they are fully ramped up and the number of people feeling the same frustrations as some have expressed here would be exponentially greater.

 

[AnOutsider]

Walla2 may have been a bit glib with his phrasing, but his point (I think) is that Tesla, for better or worse, listened to and is responding to some of the negative criticism that they've received, and that's a good thing. Now, it's entirely possible that they would have, without any negative feedback, realized that they had these communcations issues and endeavored to fix them, but I think if all Tesla ever heard from customers was "You're doing a fabulous job! Keep up the great work! Don't worry about contacting me -- I'm OK. We love you!" etc., they wouldn't have necessarily come to the same realization as quickly regarding their needs to beef up the communication processes.

That is sort of reinforced by the email that stated that they underestimated how much communication reservation holders would want/need. Had no one spoken up, they likely wouldn't have changed a thing. Also explains a bit more why they seemed to be understaffed at a time when they expected to be further ahead: they didn't think they needed more. I do wonder though, if the P folks will care as much.

As an aside, is fora really the plural of forum or are you messing with us again?

 

[Krugerrand]

With exception - doing it publically gave fodder to many others who are not in support of Tesla and therefore the risk of it following Tesla is great. As an example; I've lost count the number of times it's been posted on the Internet that Tesla has defaulted on the DOE loan, such that there are many people who simply repeat that as a matter of fact without checking if it is indeed true. So, with this public *bitching*, expect to see blanket statements as 'Tesla has terrible customer service' repeated forever from this day forward regardless if that was initially even accurate, and regardless if Tesla resolves it completely.

IMO, if you really wanted to see Tesla succeed, really, then you'd have done your *bitching* directly to Tesla and not over the Internet.

 

[AnOutsider]

With exception - doing it publically gave fodder to many others who are not in support of Tesla and therefore the risk of it following Tesla is great. As an example; I've lost count the number of times it's been posted on the Internet that Tesla has defaulted on the DOE loan, such that there are many people who simply repeat that as a matter of fact without checking if it is indeed true. So, with this public *bitching*, expect to see blanket statements as 'Tesla has terrible customer service' repeated forever from this day forward regardless if that was initially even accurate, and regardless if Tesla resolves it completely.

IMO, if you really wanted to see Tesla succeed, really, then you'd have done your *bitching* directly to Tesla and not over the Internet.

Disagree. Uninformed people will be uninformed, regardless of what anyone says. Folks who have it in for a company will always find a way to down them. I'm not going to keep quiet on negative discussions because they might potentially pick it up. IMO doing the above goes a bit past just supporting a company and being more fanboy/girlish (or I guess "enthusiast" is a better word).

I actually like Microsoft products, but I recognize they have issues. I'm a normal consumer, so I speak on them, as I think any consumer should. Same goes for Audi. All of our cars are currently Audi, and they are currently my favorite car maker -- but even on Audi discussion boards folks aren't told to keep negative Audi talk hush hush, and we post gripes about issues with cars, service and whatnot. Why is Tesla any different?

 

[Arnold Panz]

That is sort of reinforced by the email that stated that they underestimated how much communication reservation holders would want/need. Had no one spoken up, they likely wouldn't have changed a thing. Also explains a bit more why they seemed to be understaffed at a time when they expected to be further ahead: they didn't think they needed more. I do wonder though, if the P folks will care as much.

The Ps might not be quite as focused as the Sigs were, especially because when 400 cars/week are rolling off the line, and presumably a similar number being delivered each week across the country, it's not going to be as obvious or blatant when someone behind you in the queue is getting the car before you because even an 800 car difference might only be a couple of weeks (or less) for actual delivery. Also, there are generally a lot fewer Ps breathlessly reading TMC and the TM forums than Sigs (at least percentage-wise).

Having said that, my understanding is that even the most basic communications issues as originally planned were exposed as inadequate right from the get go. The plan was originally to have the DS's do almost all of the communicating with customers as delivery neared. Even with the small fraction of deliveries that started in Sept/Oct., it became pretty apparent immediately that DS's didn't have time to do all of the prep work for deliveries and do all of the communications related to deliveries in addition to doing actual deliveries (which take from 1-3 hours each, not including travel time). If everything were running perfectly smoothly from the factory and the two week windows were always accurate, and customers could track their car's progress online, then possibly the original plan might have been sufficient, but as with many things related to the ramp up, Tesla was probably overly optimistic in its own ability to get things done without a hitch, and so the communications shortfall was exacerbated by the delays and heightened interest of many of the Sig owners relative to the rest of the reservation population.

As an aside, is fora really the plural of forum or are you messing with us again?

What was the first time I messed with you?!

Either fora or forums is acceptable. Basically "fora" is the proper way to pluralize forum in Latin, which is the root of the word forum. But for "plain English" purposes, forums is perfectly acceptable. A few other people had used "fora", so I was trying to fit in. Plain English dictates that because it's much easier for people to understand "forums" as the plural for "forum" rather than "fora", as long as it's not grammatical incorrect (which it isn't), then it's an acceptable usage. So, both usages are technically correct, and "fora" is slightly more highbrow because it's invoking the Latin origins of the word.

 

[walla2]

+1. The "bitching"-activism is a waste of many things.

You quote bonnie but your posts are the least helpful to users and not constructive. Believe it or not all I have been doing is complaining about communication and asking for it to improve. It seems like Tesla is listening (georgeb and ownership) ,and I'm glad for that.

I've also decided after my delivery review to leave this site. Apparently, complaining and asking for improvement isn't something valued here by the real members.

 

[AnOutsider]

What was the first time I messed with you?!

*cough* Arnold *cough*

I've also decided after my delivery review to leave this site. Apparently, complaining and asking for improvement isn't something valued here by the real members.

Balanced discussion is good, and once you have your car you might even be able to provide better insight into things coming from the position you're currently in. I know it can be frustrating at times, but just take a mini break and hop back on the wagon.

 

[dsm363]

Bonnie, let me start by saying I really am a big fan of yours and I take to heart everything you say.
My concern is that we don't disenfranchise many on here that we might view as "bitching".
It's often not clear to me just where the line is between "constructive criticism" and "bitching".
For example, I recently responded to Dave (dsm363) regarding one of his posts that his "ragging on people was wearing a bit thin on me".
I honestly meant it as constructive criticism, but many here took it negatively.
I received 2 positive relationship feedbacks and 1 negative, so that alone tells us how differently we all see things.
However, after I reread my response i could definitely see how many (including Dave) could have read my comments as a slam.
And so I'd like to apologize here to Dave. No question in my mind that his intent is always good. Just as your comments are always well intended.
That's the problem with email and forum posts. Our real intent is often shadowed by the wording alone.
I personally try viewing all the posts here with good intent, but great passion and often great frustration.
Again, the concern I have is that we don't drown out the voices of the passionate and frustrated.
For example, I don't ever recall anyone here getting slammed for sharing their joy of getting their car, or their previous positive experiences with Tesla.
Likewise, I'd like to see us all try really hard to be as tolerant and supportive as those that are frustrated and feeling disenfranchised.
In all fairness I was guilty of not supporting Dave in the post I responded to. After rereading it it was much clearer to me that he was really trying to empathize rather than to do a negative slam.
My bad!

No problem! Thanks for the post. It's obviously tough since one person can be upset about something and view it as constructive criticism and others may see it differently. Everyone has a right to their opinion just as others have the right to share how they view things which is why this forum is so valuable for people here.

 

[Krugerrand]

Why is Tesla any different?

If you can't see that it is different, then I couldn't possibly explain it to you. Still, I don't publically complain about any company and I'd not support or encourage people to do it either.

If I have an issue, I go directly to the source of the issue. Once I'm satisfied with the resolution, I'm satisfied and I don't hold a grudge. And yes, I'm always satisfied in the end because I don't stop until I get in contact with the person with the power to make the decision to satisfy me. Disclaimer: That does require both parties to be reasonable.

Behind every company name are people, like you and me. One (or a couple) of those people is/are responsible for the issue, not the entire work force. Publically bitching about a company potentially hurts the entire work force and I'm not the least bit interested in affecting *them*. I'm all about making the individual, within the company, responsible.

- - - Updated - - -

You quote bonnie but your posts are the least helpful to users and not constructive. Believe it or not all I have been doing is complaining about communication and asking for it to improve. It seems like Tesla is listening (georgeb and ownership) ,and I'm glad for that.

I've also decided after my delivery review to leave this site. Apparently, complaining and asking for improvement isn't something valued here by the real members.

Wow, walla2, just wow. Talk about taking the bone and running with it.

 

[Arnold Panz]

With exception - doing it publically gave fodder to many others who are not in support of Tesla and therefore the risk of it following Tesla is great. As an example; I've lost count the number of times it's been posted on the Internet that Tesla has defaulted on the DOE loan, such that there are many people who simply repeat that as a matter of fact without checking if it is indeed true. So, with this public *bitching*, expect to see blanket statements as 'Tesla has terrible customer service' repeated forever from this day forward regardless if that was initially even accurate, and regardless if Tesla resolves it completely.

IMO, if you really wanted to see Tesla succeed, really, then you'd have done your *bitching* directly to Tesla and not over the Internet.

I don't understand your point here. Your "example" is about the DOE loan, but to my knowledge there have been no posts on TMC about Tesla defaulting on the DOE loan, and certainly very few complaints about the loan in general on TMC. To the extent that many people elsewhere on the internet have misunderstood what's happening with the DOE loan, all of the negative criticism/complaining/bitching (whatever word is your preference) on TMC has had no impact based on what I can see on any of this.

Is there another example that you have where "public" criticism of Tesla on TMC has led to some negative outcome for Tesla in the short or long term? To the contrary, there are many Tesla employees who read these forums pretty regularly, and have gotten extremely valuable information from them, including some of the more negative feedback, particularly as the ramp up and delivery process started. If you asked people at Tesla, I am fairly confident that they view TMC as a net positive for Tesla overall. Even if people don't like to hear negative criticism, and not have it aired publicly, it is necessary at times, and ultimately more helpful than having people provide false praise (i.e., "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie!").

One of my critical posts here was actually "quoted" (at least by my nom de plume) in an article on Green Car Reports, but I thought it was a fair criticism, and hopefully helped spur change at Tesla for the better. I have seen no evidence of a negative impact on Tesla's success of any posts on these forums, and unless you can present some to the contrary, I cannot agree with your suggestion that we keep all criticisms off of these public forums.

 

[Krugerrand]

If you asked people at Tesla...

Have done so...and it's not appropriate to repeat some of those opinions. As with any topic, and as evident on this forum, opinions are quite varied. I've simply offered my take. I'll also clarify since it seems to have been missed, yet again, there is a difference between *bitching* (and that's what I do not support) and *constructive criticism* (which I do support).