Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

[Arnold Panz]

I'll also clarify since it seems to have been missed, yet again, there is a difference between *bitching* (and that's what I do not support) and *constructive criticism* (which I do support).

To paraphrase from one of Elon's favorite movies, there's a fine line between bitching and constructive criticism!

Having said that, I have almost always been pleasantly surprised by the level of discourse on these forums -- the Mods do an incredible job of keeping everyone in line, and allowing a free flow of ideas without discussions veering off into crazy town. Even people who are "bitching" generally do so in a reasonable manner and with specific examples highlighting their issues. Everyone will not always agree on the best way to express oneself in a forum like this, but generally speaking it stays on the respectful and reasonable side of the ledger.

 

[efusco]

If you can't see that it is different, then I couldn't possibly explain it to you. Still, I don't publically complain about any company and I'd not support or encourage people to do it either.

If I have an issue, I go directly to the source of the issue. Once I'm satisfied with the resolution, I'm satisfied and I don't hold a grudge. And yes, I'm always satisfied in the end because I don't stop until I get in contact with the person with the power to make the decision to satisfy me. Disclaimer: That does require both parties to be reasonable.

Behind every company name are people, like you and me. One (or a couple) of those people is/are responsible for the issue, not the entire work force. Publically bitching about a company potentially hurts the entire work force and I'm not the least bit interested in affecting *them*. I'm all about making the individual, within the company, responsible.

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Wow, walla2, just wow. Talk about taking the bone and running with it.

Due respect, yours is ONE excellent strategy for addressing issues. But this brave new world has many other options and those options are used and recognized by most major companies. I know for a fact that Toyota monitors the PriusChat.com and other similar sites. Facebook and Twitter are monitored. While your approach is excellent, and probably preferred, there is much to be said for having a place where people can share their mutual experiences, elaborate on solutions, consolidate the concerns. And, from my Prius experience, often arrive at potential solutions before Toyota and their engineers have had a chance.

There are obviously limits, but forums like this one exist for a number of reasons, amongst those is the ability "bitch"/constructively criticize/problem solve all in an open manner that can be monitored by the parent company and where we can mutually share and console our angst.

 

[Krugerrand]

There are obviously limits, but forums like this one exist for a number of reasons, amongst those is the ability "bitch"/constructively criticize/problem solve all in an open manner that can be monitored by the parent company and where we can mutually share and console our angst.

I have no issue other than to categorize bitching as equivalent to (appropriate or as productive as) constructive criticism or problem solving. I embrace the latter two with verve and vigor.

In the beginning people mostly offered constructive criticism and possible solutions to the communication issue. An executive directly addressed the concern and clearly apologized and stated a mistake had been made and it would be resolved. At which point, some people moved from constructive criticism to bitching and continued/continue to bitch. Did they really think a switch could be flipped and the following day everything would be rectified? That's what I object to.

 

[tezco]

I also have permission to pass along what is going on with the build out of their communication process:

"...our communication problems are not solved yet, it's a little better but nowhere near what we want it to be. It won't be better until the inside delivery team comes online in early December. The field team just doesn't have the bandwidth to stay in constant contact with customers to the levels needed. When creating this organization we underestimated the level of communication people wanted during the delivery process. We recognized this and that's why we are creating the inside team who will be able to be proactive with customers. It doesn’t happen overnight and we need everyone to be patient for another week or so. I also want to reiterate how appreciative we are of all our customers and thank you for your patience..."

I think that Roadster owners probably have a better idea of how to, and with whom to communicate with inside the company itself, partly because some of them were able to deal with the company before it had to be extremely careful not to upset public shareholders. My only contact with the Company has been via my delivery specialist, which has been good, but others may not have had as positive an experience.

Tesla's official "Contact" link doesn't even include a way to send an e-mail, so the info provided (above) to kroneal will be a great step forward. I wish that Tesla could be a bit more proactive; however. It would have been nice to get an update from the company indicating that they were aware of this problem, and were working on it, instead of reading about it in the Forum. We really haven't had an official update from Ownership Experience since Oct 17.

 

[Trnsl8r]

While I agree with everyone that bitching unconstructively is never good, I can understand that some of the folks on here are passionate, have reason to be frustrated and may have an urgent need to not so much "bitch" but at least "vent".

Venting is good for the soul, but is hard to do constructively and in our case it's even harder to do offline. Where can you best vent about an issue that is important to you? With other people who also feel it's important and can feel your pain and not, perhaps, with spouses or co-workers that will roll their eyes "you and your car again". This forum is sometimes the only outlet. I guess that's why I feel fairly tolerant to the "bitching" and don't feel the same need to criticize it. (That said, constructive criticism is trump.)

My 2 cents.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Some have suggested that negative feedback should be directed solely to Tesla, rather than being posted on forums. I disagree, at least as a general rule. When a specific issue suggests a broader problem, then raising that broader problem to this community engages more people in thinking about what solutions would satisfy us, the customer base. TMC and other forums can, in their best forms, provide broad-based feedback to Tesla that, in turn, helps Tesla become a better company.

So, my rule of thumb on posting is this: if something won't advance the constructive discussion towards helping Tesla Motors mature, I don't post it. (Obvious exception here for humor, policy, etc.)

 

[Norbert]

Have done so...and it's not appropriate to repeat some of those opinions. As with any topic, and as evident on this forum, opinions are quite varied. I've simply offered my take. I'll also clarify since it seems to have been missed, yet again, there is a difference between *bitching* (and that's what I do not support) and *constructive criticism* (which I do support).

+1. And aside from the current hot topics, I'd like to point out that in the past, in many cases, threads which turned into page-long accusations and/or doomsday predictions, in retrospective turned out to be based on not very much, if anything at all, objectively. In those cases you could almost hear dozens of "oops" while only a few corrected themselves.

 

[Doug_G]

Some have suggested that negative feedback should be directed solely to Tesla, rather than being posted on forums. I disagree, at least as a general rule.

In general, I agree with Robert. People can cross a line, though. A couple of times over the years we've had one of our customers make an unreasonable request, and when he didn't get what he wanted he threatened to "out" us on the user forums. One actually followed through on the threat. To my great amusement the forum members thought he was completely out of line and totally flamed him. :biggrin:

 

[Arnold Panz]

While I agree with everyone that bitching unconstructively is never good, I can understand that some of the folks on here are passionate, have reason to be frustrated and may have an urgent need to not so much "bitch" but at least "vent".

Venting is good for the soul, but is hard to do constructively and in our case it's even harder to do offline. Where can you best vent about an issue that is important to you? With other people who also feel it's important and can feel your pain and not, perhaps, with spouses or co-workers that will roll their eyes "you and your car again". This forum is sometimes the only outlet. I guess that's why I feel fairly tolerant to the "bitching" and don't feel the same need to criticize it. (That said, constructive criticism is trump.)

My 2 cents.

Great point, TRnsl8r. In fact, at my lowest when I was maximally frustrated with Tesla's lack of communication, the very fact that I knew from these forums that I wasn't alone and wasn't the only person frustrated and disenchanted with Tesla helped keep me sane and preventing me from getting even more upset and frustrated with Tesla than I was. So not only is it a good place to vent, it also can (and has) served as a proxy to help Tesla with its own customer base.

Plus, I love meeting Tesla employees who regularly read the forums and feel like they know me already! The fact that they don't take anything written here personally, and are largely sympathetic to (or at least aren't dismissive of) many of the criticisms raised in the forums, makes me think that it's a net positive for Tesla overall to have critical commentary here.

 

[AnOutsider]

+1. And aside from the current hot topics, I'd like to point out that in the past, in many cases, threads which turned into page-long accusations and/or doomsday predictions, in retrospective turned out to be based on not very much, if anything at all, objectively. In those cases you could almost hear dozens of "oops" while only a few corrected themselves.

How is that applicable here? You're talking about some side cases of supposition from folks (which SOMETIMES proved false -- I didn't see many apologies when brianman was right about the sig count either) in a thread dedicated (by it's own title) to discussing issues and concerns. There's a big difference. There's no "oops" here, these things have happened and are being discussed. There are missed deadlines. There are communication blackouts. There is frustration. This forum, and specifically, this thread is the perfect place to discuss these things as a community.

I understand that you and Kruggerand are deeply invested in Tesla and want to see them succeed, but stifling any negative discussion about the company isn't the way to go about it IMO. As an investor, putting on rose-tinted glasses wouldn't do a thing for me in reality. I'd actually WANT to know what the company I'm backing is doing wrong. I want to know their weaknesses and faults -- and should they fix them, I'd feel even better about that company.

 

[Norbert]

While I agree with everyone that bitching unconstructively is never good, I can understand that some of the folks on here are passionate, have reason to be frustrated and may have an urgent need to not so much "bitch" but at least "vent".

Yes, sometimes one is moved so much that one just needs to say something. Especially appreciated if it is accompanied by a "sorry, had to vent".

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There are missed deadlines. There are communication blackouts. There is frustration.

I agree and don't mind if you say that. That's I think the best I can answer this.

 

[ckessel]

At this point, I'm waiting to see what folks receiving cars late Dec/Jan have in the way of communication. Tesla is putting this new internal communications team into place, but I wouldn't expect to see much impact for a few weeks as they hire, train, and define processes and responsibilities.

 

[Norbert]

( [...] I didn't see many apologies when brianman was right about the sig count either)

Since your post was directed at me: I don't remember faulting brianman for making that assumption. I might have had a different opinion about the relevance, but I don't recall saying anything about that either.

 

[Tempus]

At this point, I'm waiting to see what folks receiving cars late Dec/Jan have in the way of communication. Tesla is putting this new internal communications team into place, but I wouldn't expect to see much impact for a few weeks as they hire, train, and define processes and responsibilities.

me too! especially as i'm hopefully/likely part of that group. *Grin*

interesting to note though - i'm obviously well aware of the delays and "updated" likely timing for my vehicle, that's largely (if not solely) because i hang around here a lot. I'm curious what someone who didn't spend a lot of time on the boards who had one of those common "nov/dec" timeline quotes would be thinking right now. I can't think of any official communications that i've gotten from tesla directly that would lead me to believe anything other than my car is going to be in my hands in the next few weeks...

 

[bonnie]

In general, I agree with Robert. People can cross a line, though. A couple of times over the years we've had one of our customers make an unreasonable request, and when he didn't get what he wanted he threatened to "out" us on the user forums. One actually followed through on the threat. To my great amusement the forum members thought he was completely out of line and totally flamed him. :biggrin:

I've seen that happen here & it was equally amusing.

Look everyone - I don't think anyone is saying that people don't have a right to say what they want to say. This all started because I quoted someone saying that 'all their bitching had helped' (paraphrased). Constructive complaining ... YAY. Every company needs to face their issues and we should absolutely be comfortable in stating our opinion publicly. But I think we've all seen plenty of examples where it isn't constructive, it's just flaming and assuming the worst. And that isn't helpful to Tesla (who is likely to be defensive over inappropriate criticism and less likely to hear the real issues) and other forum members when it just results in constipated conversation, stuck on that one topic. Yep. I said 'constipated'. Let the scat jokes begin!)

Not a big deal. Obviously this is a public forum & people can say and do what they want. Including fangirls. Who, may I remind you, became a fan because of real world experience gained over the last 21+ months ... no koolaide in sight.

 

[JRP3]

As an investor, putting on rose-tinted glasses wouldn't do a thing for me in reality. I'd actually WANT to know what the company I'm backing is doing wrong. I want to know their weaknesses and faults -- and should they fix them, I'd feel even better about that company.

I agree. And I don't have any problem with people who are frustrated with a lack of communication coming here and communicating that fact. Yes Tesla detractors do come here and read the negative posts and try to use them against Tesla, but that can't hurt the company unless they fail to address the issues.

 

[Norbert]

I agree. And I don't have any problem with people who are frustrated with a lack of communication coming here and communicating that fact.

As you describe it, that's not something I'd take issue with.

 

[Dave Rauschkolb]

#904 Signature Performance Model not delivered

I've been through two delivery windows and on a unconfirmed third. Now getting very frustrated and disillusioned. No one I speak to at Tesla seems to know where my car is or when it will go on the truck. I've been told three times the car should be shipping "this afternoon or tomorrow; i'll let you know the status later today." Then, I have to email the next day to get a "I'll check and get back." I've been told "our logistics partner, UPS is handling the deliveries." UPS? Anyway, every day that goes by I get more pissed off.

I would have preferred no delivery window until they can tell me for certain the car WILL be delivered in the "window". Why have a delivery window at all if they can't DELIVER. Pretty simple stuff. It's called customer service. Did I just read that #1267 was delivered? Yes.

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VIN 1032 R Lawson not delivered. I have seen a picture of my car almost done.

904 Dave Rauschkolb not delivered

 

[RubberToe]

Not a reservation holder, but I just watched the Megafactory video. Simply amazing. Concerning the late delivery of the Signatures I would propose the following to Elon and company: When delivering 1,000 vehicles, some bad s**t is certainly going to happen, for a variety of reasons. Some under their control and some not. Whichever Signature owner receives the last one delivered should get a tour of the factory by Elon in person. After the tour he can hand the new owner the car keys and a check for $100,000 for the distinction of being the last one to receive his/her Signature.

Cost: $100,000
Free Publicity: $10,000,000+
Goodwill: Priceless

RT

 

[brianman]

I've also decided after my delivery review to leave this site. Apparently, complaining and asking for improvement isn't something valued here by the real members.

It is valued. Please reconsider staying.

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Since your post was directed at me: I don't remember faulting brianman for making that assumption. I might have had a different opinion about the relevance, but I don't recall saying anything about that either.

For the record, I made no assumption. I collated information, followed up with Tesla directly via e-mail, and posted their official responses after confirming that they were fine with posting it.