Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Model S range and interior update imminent?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Umm.. The Mode S&X motors do have a heat exchanger... And they are mounted to a sub-frame that then attaches to the car. So all you would need is a different sub-frame. (Which is relatively small.) No changes to body/battery would be necessary.

If they use the Model 3 motor as-is they would have to keep the Performance induction motor since it is more powerful than the Model 3 motor, so that means at least two sub-frames. (Which I think they already have two, one for the large and one for the small drive unit.) So really, swapping out the motor would be very easy for them to do, and could even be offered as a retrofit. (Not that they will, but they could.)

A heat exchanger is not a heat exchanger. Each one needs to be sized and optimized for the application, together with the associated pumping and piping systems. Unless you've done the heat transfer calcs, then I'll assume that they need to revise/replace it. I think it's far more likely that they can use the one directly out of the 3, but I may be wrong on that. Further, the software will need to be revised, and perhaps some of the control electronics.

Sure, everything that you say is possible. They could have as many versions of the mounting structure, drive train, software and electronics as they cared to build, at whatever it cost. But you've not given me a single reason why they would. I think you'll agree that they right way to do this is to do it once - and not do part of of the job now and part later.

Revise the entire drive train in one shot, including the pack, motors, exchangers, etc... That gives you a clean cutoff where you don't have a bunch of half-upgraded cars with intermediate components and intermediate software

And further to the point, it's not like people have been clamoring for a new motor. I've never seen one post that is hounding Tesla for that. Yes you might get another 10-15 miles out of a slightly more efficient motor, and maybe it save a few dollars but that's not really enough impetus to create these half-upgraded cars. People have, however, been clamoring for a new and larger pack and for a track mode. I suspect the new drive train is intended to deal with both of these issues. And I suspect that there's more savings to be had in replacing the whole shot with a version of the 3 drive train.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: bhzmark and MP3Mike
The S&X use waste drive-unit heat to heat the pack as well. The difference is that if there isn't enough waste heat the S&X turn on a resistive heater, and the Model 3 runs the motor in a zero torque mode if parked, or in an inefficient mode if moving to create extra heat. So efficiency wise there shouldn't be much difference. What they really did is remove parts, reduce complexity, increase reliability, and of course reduce costs.

I guess another difference is the heater in the S&X is single "speed", ~5kW, while in the Model 3 they can control the amount of power used. (Which should allow pack heating on lower powered EVSEs, which has been a problem in cold climates for the S&X.)

Sure. And by providing additional cooling fluid to the motor, they allow the heat transfer system to pull more heat out of the motor. I'm sure that's what allows the 3 to run extended periods at high power, whereas the S motor overheats.
 
Sure. And by providing additional cooling fluid to the motor, they allow the heat transfer system to pull more heat out of the motor. I'm sure that's what allows the 3 to run extended periods at high power, whereas the S motor overheats.

The S motors overheat because they are induction based and it is next to impossible to cool the rotor in them. (Though Tesla does better at this than other companies.) The Model 3 motor being PM based doesn't generate heat in the rotor.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: pilotSteve
The S motors overheat because they are induction based and it is next to impossible to cool the rotor in them. (Though Tesla does better at this than other companies.) The Model 3 motor being PM based doesn't generate heat in the rotor.

Of course.. that too, but only the rear motor in the 3 is PM. They also manage to cool the front motor in the P3 - the induction motor - adequately. Unless they play some games in allocating power to that motor so that it's not used as heavily???
 
It's cheaper to run two models on one line, rather than to have two lines as long as the models share the same platform. It's more expensive to run two models on one line than to eliminate one of the two models altogether and have only one model.

There's no reason for Tesla to keep two substantially different models of the S. You don't see Honda running the prior model year of Civic together with the new model year of Civic. It would be silly for a bunch of reasons.

They don't run the prior year with the current year but they certainly run different engine, transmission, interiors and option comobnations all on the same line.
 
No, it doesn't meet my criteria as that is 8.8kW, so it is enough to run the heater and support systems completely from shore power.

You didn't read what I wrote.

Yes... that's exactly what I meant. It met you minimum criteria for being able to power the heater directly. And the rest of my question stands. With the 40 amp charger, driving the heater (assuming that's what happens) it will take a while for a half ton battery to show any temp increase. Yet, I do see km accumulating right away - not after 15/20 minutes.

From the perspective of the battery, initially it's no different with or without heat. So, I'm quite curious about these situations where people had to be towed because they couldn't charge. I've never heard of one.
 
Last edited:
Let's get back on topic.

iF they change the motors it would probably make sense to change battery packs and reintroduce a Standard range S to be the high volume alternative. But would they use 2170 or same updated chemistry in 18650 dimensions? In Europe I expect CCS and V3 SuC compatability.

They need to step up to match the Porsche Taycan and Audi e-tron GT. I guess more efficient cooling is the way to go also to get at least a few laps around "the Ring" at speed.
 
The interior leaked pictures don't look that great. The range will definitely increase, but all I care about is the performance. As long as the current P100D is still going to be the fastest sedan ever made, I will be OK with the update

You will probably need to get the latest and the greatest Tesla to stay on top ;) I'd like a 500 mile range sub-2-second-0-60 ml/h 7-seater SUV EV from Tesla to drive kids to hobbies with ;)
 
The interior leaked pictures don't look that great. The range will definitely increase, but all I care about is the performance. As long as the current P100D is still going to be the fastest sedan ever made, I will be OK with the update
If the leaked pictures were in fact from Tesla, I think they probably have revised the designs as there was a significant backlash against the look generally and the horizontal screen in particular. I don't personally think they will try to consolidate all the UIs into a horizontal form factor, after all the roadster 2020 screen is going to be portrait.

And with regard to the current P100D being the fastest sedan ever made, prepare to be disappointed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.