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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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- Model S Tesla Inc.
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CraZ8
Member
Depends on what you mean by imminent. LOL. Got a little teaser the other night that just confirms what they have been saying for the last several months. The 3 production hell pushed the interior upgrade to late 2019. No clear idea what it will look like except what I referenced in previous posts. HOWEVER there will be an upgrade to the pack in 2020 to the 2170 configuration and a change to permanent magnetic motors both front and rear. There is even a whisper of two individual motors in the rear like the roadster. Internal numbers have shown the efficiency up to around a 400 plus mile range. So I’m in a long term holding pattern for at least 18 months with my S. Driving the wife’s Velar has been a nice distraction. On another note looks like I will be putting in a complete solar system next spring with battery backup for the house so I can power my S and also not have to worry about storms and power outages ( two multi day outages so far this year due to nasty weather with trees taking out power lines. I’m sick of hooking up the generator to run basic systems)You know, I heard that the S refresh is imminent!
Tiger
Active Member
strider
Active Member
My reading of that article means the exact OPPOSITE. If Panasonic is moving 18650 production to the US then they means they plan to keep producing 18650s in volume for years to come. That means an S/X switchover to 2170s is NOT imminent.
Updating S/X to 2170s will mean major work. Much of the car will need to be redesigned. I think @CraZ8 statement that they will put Model 3 motors in S/X to be more likely. That efficiency gain will let them increase range with the same packs.
In other news, we are in the process of trading in our P85 and getting a demo S100D. My wife and I HATE the proposed interior refresh plus with the tax credit expiring we figured now is as good a time as any.
So you could say that I'm talking my book to a degree
Exactly. If they were going to transition the S&X to 2170s they would just be adding more cell production capacity to GF1. They wouldn't be moving anything.
badboy1980
Member
How long has this thread been going now? Imminent? Err, no.
Just enjoy what we have.
PS I heard Autopilot 3.0 was imminent lol.
Just enjoy what we have.
PS I heard Autopilot 3.0 was imminent lol.
Tiger
Active Member
Well, we'll know next week if Tesla has no choice but to offer 400-600ml range for Model S/X: Inside Rivian’s plan to challenge Detroit and electrify the American truck & SUV
My reading of that article means the exact OPPOSITE. If Panasonic is moving 18650 production to the US then they means they plan to keep producing 18650s in volume for years to come. That means an S/X switchover to 2170s is NOT imminent.
Updating S/X to 2170s will mean major work. Much of the car will need to be redesigned. I think @CraZ8 statement that they will put Model 3 motors in S/X to be more likely. That efficiency gain will let them increase range with the same packs.
In other news, we are in the process of trading in our P85 and getting a demo S100D. My wife and I HATE the proposed interior refresh plus with the tax credit expiring we figured now is as good a time as any.
So you could say that I'm talking my book to a degree
I suspect Tesla has had a 2170 pack design for the Model S/X for a while. They needed to test all the new components for the Model 3 before there were any road ready cars built, so they probably installed that tech in Model S and X chassis. Jason Hughes opined that the existing Model S/X pack modules could be redesigned to take 2170s without having to redo the entire pack.
The article says Panasonic is moving its lines currently making 18650s from Japan to the US next year, but it isn't completely clear if they will be updating those lines to make 2170s instead. They may move the equipment currently making 18650s in Japan and update the equipment once in the US to make 2170s instead. The changes would not be that drastic, the manufacturing process is the same for both. It's suspected there is a change in chemistry for the 2170s, which may have already been incorporated in the 18650 line and the form factor is a little different, but that's about it.
If the renderings of the new interior leaked online are real, I agree with you. I don't like the new instrument layout, though a better laid out center console might be nice.
Tesla might be trying to work out a price drop of the S/X when the tax incentive starts going away. They can "pay" for it by reducing production costs. Integrating more Model 3 tech into those cars and reducing battery cost could allow them to cut the price of the car by as much as $10K and have only a minor impact (or possibly no impact) on the profit margin. The biggest single cost in the S/X is the battery pack and they could save a fair chunk of money by standardizing as much of it as possible with the 3, and using American made cells.
I estimate upgrading to 2170s could get them to close to 120 KWH for the large pack using the same footprint used today. They could offer a small pack car as the 100 KWH and the big pack at 120 KWH. I vaguely remember something about the 75 KWH was going to be discontinued at the end of this year. That may be the plan.
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
the 100 pack is 2 years old. I agree that the likelihood of making the 100 the small / entry level S&X pack and having a 120 as the big pack is very high.
especially since there are 3's running around with more range than a 75 S or X. It helps to keep the S relevant and significantly different enough to produce the higher margins that Tesla would like to see
especially since there are 3's running around with more range than a 75 S or X. It helps to keep the S relevant and significantly different enough to produce the higher margins that Tesla would like to see
Tiger
Active Member
The refresh has been done, Tesla can step out of the game now: Rivian's 7-seat, 410-mile R1S SUV is taking on Land Rover in the luxury off-road game
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
CraZ8
Member
Appears to be more like a Chevy Tahoe rip-off. With a goofy front end that seems like the automotive answer to what Harry Potter would look like turned into a car. Ford on the other hand does a passable Land Rover rip-off. Any way I’ll believe it when I see it. ( cough Faraday cough cough)
Tiger
Active Member
Tiger
Active Member
...tell me more about this booze and hookers?This was going to be a problem all along. Aside for all but the most fannish of fanboys, we all know the S does not have a premium interior. It's not a horrible place to spend time but go sit in a properly trimmed 5 series or a Mercedes E class and you realize right away that the S's interior has more in common with an entry level Lincoln than it does other $100,000 cars.
Up until now the rest of the car has been good enough to overcome that but as the car ages and as competition appears, now from Tesla itself, it's going to become harder to upsell people to a premium product that's not very premium.
You have to ask yourself if the difference of $53,500 between a base model 100D and a long range base Model 3 is worth it, especially considering that for the price of one no option S100D you could buy two no-option long range 3s and still have change left over for booze and hookers!
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
Now that Rivian has showcased their 135/180KW batteries, and more suv’s ( lambo urus, & Ferrari purosangue )Are closing in on model x performance levels wonder if that will result in new batteries for the x & s at the same time as the new interiors...
My hopeful guess is q1 2019. Imagine new interiors and 2170 batteries with the 100kw becoming the base, and then a 110 and a p125d that gives current model s performance numbers in a model x!
That would be exciting.
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