Model S range and interior update imminent?

[wdolson]

Your opening paragraph is exactly the point I was trying to make. You just phrased it much better. "In supercharging, they would be only of limited use. They might be able to push the taper off to a little higher rate of charge by storing energy quickly, then charging up the battery at a rate that is good for the batteries. " Store energy quickly; charge the battery later. Dont replace battery, just round off some of the rough edges.
The idea of a permanent replacement of the 12v unit seems like a good thing - but not the only thing. Buffering the battery for regen, for sprints, for supercharging assistant - seems like additional good things.
I keep reading that the time spent supercharging is too long and something just gotta be done about it. Personally, I find a 20 minute charging stop is a welcome break. But whittling this down to a shorter charging stop seems desirable- and fits my understanding of what a capacitor can do. The size/density issue is a flaw I cant get my head around. Cant they be molded into just about any shape and used to fill voids to save time?

There are limits on the geometry of capacitors, you can't just mold them any way you want (capacitance is in part tied to physical geometry), but their shape is more flexible than batteries. It would be interesting to fill the fenders with supercapacitors, though that might pose a safety issue. In an accident that caused a sudden discharge of the capacitors it could electrocute someone, or start a fire. The capacitors themselves wouldn't be fire hazzards like li-ion cells are, but a sudden discharge of a supercapacitor could set something else on fire.

I believe the 12v is needed with current design for safety as well. It powers the safety features in a crash. That is probably why it is well protected and hard to get to too.

As someone who just replaced it in my car, they did make it unnecessarily difficult to get to. There is a bracket that needs to be removed or bent to get the battery out and the lower nut on the bracket is under the HEPA filter in the Model S. And getting the HEPA filter out requires a partial frunk dismantling. I bent the bracket. It isn't that difficult to get to the battery terminals, you remove 3 plastic pieces, one held on with velcro and another just press fits into place. The press fit piece is the duct from the HEPA filter to the cabin and is held in place by the other two pieces.

A relatively minor redesign of that bracket would make getting the 12V battery in and out much easier.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

There are limits on the geometry of capacitors, you can't just mold them any way you want (capacitance is in part tied to physical geometry), but their shape is more flexible than batteries. It would be interesting to fill the fenders with supercapacitors, though that might pose a safety issue. In an accident that caused a sudden discharge of the capacitors it could electrocute someone, or start a fire. The capacitors themselves wouldn't be fire hazzards like li-ion cells are, but a sudden discharge of a supercapacitor could set something else on fire.



As someone who just replaced it in my car, they did make it unnecessarily difficult to get to. There is a bracket that needs to be removed or bent to get the battery out and the lower nut on the bracket is under the HEPA filter in the Model S. And getting the HEPA filter out requires a partial frunk dismantling. I bent the bracket. It isn't that difficult to get to the battery terminals, you remove 3 plastic pieces, one held on with velcro and another just press fits into place. The press fit piece is the duct from the HEPA filter to the cabin and is held in place by the other two pieces.

A relatively minor redesign of that bracket would make getting the 12V battery in and out much easier.

Now ya got me wondering - how long does the 12v last? Typically a lead-acid battery in the heat of the desert needs replacing in 3 years. (my take is that the cells simply dry out- and you cant get to them to put more electrolyte). Rolled cells don't seem to dry out and last 5 years.....What should I budget for in my 2016 S?

 

[wdolson]

Now ya got me wondering - how long does the 12v last? Typically a lead-acid battery in the heat of the desert needs replacing in 3 years. (my take is that the cells simply dry out- and you cant get to them to put more electrolyte). Rolled cells don't seem to dry out and last 5 years.....What should I budget for in my 2016 S?

Mine lasted about 2 1/2 years. I've read many of the early cars had their 12V battery go yearly, which is probably why they went with the new type of battery in 2015 or 2016. I think a lot of the early refresh cars still have batteries that are still chugging along because finding any information on how to get the battery out of refresh cars is hard to find.

 

[CraZ8]

Mine lasted about 2 1/2 years. I've read many of the early cars had their 12V battery go yearly, which is probably why they went with the new type of battery in 2015 or 2016. I think a lot of the early refresh cars still have batteries that are still chugging along because finding any information on how to get the battery out of refresh cars is hard to find.

Now you have ME wondering. I have an early 2015 car. Am I on borrowed time with a 4 year old battery? Should I make an appointment with the service center even though problems haven’t shown up yet?

 

[wdolson]

When the battery starts to go, you get a yellow warning message pop up on the instrument cluster. I called Tesla Service and they said you have about a month from when the message pops up to get the battery replaced. If there are other messages, it might be something up with the 12V system rather than the battery.

What is annoying is that if a firmware update comes out while that message is up, it will try to update every night, but fail due to the message until the battery is replaced. Other than that, there were no other issues with the car and it was close to 3 weeks for me.

I may have just gotten unlucky and got a short lived battery. I guess I'm making up for the luck of getting a great drive pack, 0-1 mile of range degradation so far.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Are the 12v battery issues covered by warantee?

 

[bmah]

Now you have ME wondering. I have an early 2015 car. Am I on borrowed time with a 4 year old battery? Should I make an appointment with the service center even though problems haven’t shown up yet?

One data point from here: I just had my 12V replaced on my S85D at about 45 months and 59K miles. Mobile service came and dealt with it after I called tech support to report various warnings on the IC ("Car may not restart - Contact Tesla Service" or something similar to that). On my pre-refresh car, the mobile service technician made it look easy, just remove the plastic panels around the frunk and it's right there in plain sight.

With my moderator hat on, the 12V battery isn't strictly on-topic, but then neither is probably half of the material that's been discussed in this thread so...

Bruce.

 

[Chaserr]

Just upping the hype here: I currently can't order an S or X. When I try it tells me "The wait is almost over" and says I should wait until 2PM.

Soon

 

[Lukez]

400 mile range models coming out

 

[daktari]

Just upping the hype here: I currently can't order an S or X. When I try it tells me "The wait is almost over" and says I should wait until 2PM.

Soon

I can't even order a Model 3 on the US site, directed to "Soon" as above.
If I try to order a car on the Norwegian site, I also get redirected.

 

[ucmndd]

AP HW3

 

[wdolson]

I haven't been paying close attention to the prices, but I can get to the Model S order page now and it looks like the price has dropped again. Full self driving capability is now back as an option.

 

[hitekredneck]

Do you think the recent drop in Model S/X prices is an attempt to clear inventory ahead of the planned Refresh predicted in 2017?

 

[avesraggiana]

Do you think the recent drop in Model S/X prices is an attempt to clear inventory ahead of the planned Refresh predicted in 2017?

I would like to believe that, but in my mind it's more likely that they're trying to goose demand again, in the face of no more free supercharging, no more referral discounts, no more sunroof, and no resources available to do a refresh any sooner.

I think it'll all be in vain and Model S sales will decline regardless of whatever else Tesla does. In the end the Model S needs to be refreshed, sooner rather than later.

 

[MarkS22]

I would like to believe that, but in my mind it's more likely that they're trying to goose demand again, in the face of no more free supercharging, no more referral discounts, no more sunroof, and no resources available to do a refresh any sooner.

I think it'll all be in vain and Model S sales will decline regardless of whatever else Tesla does. In the end the Model S needs to be refreshed, sooner rather than later.

I know it's controversial, but unifying the design to more closely match the Model 3 would go a long way. It doesn't have to be crazy:

• Single long vent (with more premium wood)
• Horizontal screen (preferably 17" vs 15" on the 3)
• Small 4" IC or HUD to keep clean lines
• Phone dock in a similar location to the 3
• Door storage and auto-presenting doors on Model S
  
• Optional Bluetooth phone key

That would go a long way for me on the S/X.

 

[wdolson]

I would like to believe that, but in my mind it's more likely that they're trying to goose demand again, in the face of no more free supercharging, no more referral discounts, no more sunroof, and no resources available to do a refresh any sooner.

I think it'll all be in vain and Model S sales will decline regardless of whatever else Tesla does. In the end the Model S needs to be refreshed, sooner rather than later.

The S is definitely more car than the M3, it's bigger, has 2X the cargo space, and is more luxurious, but the price difference is hard to justify. The M3 has some features the S doesn't, and it has poorer backseat headroom. For many people the difference in cost is hard to justify. I love my S, but I would probably buy an M3 today even though I would prefer the S.

 

[henderrj]

I would like to believe that, but in my mind it's more likely that they're trying to goose demand again, in the face of no more free supercharging, no more referral discounts, no more sunroof, and no resources available to do a refresh any sooner.

I think it'll all be in vain and Model S sales will decline regardless of whatever else Tesla does. In the end the Model S needs to be refreshed, sooner rather than later.

I too want to believe but I'm hesitant. However, I still have a little belief that they might just do it! One can always hope.

 

[Brutaka]

I know it's controversial, but unifying the design to more closely match the Model 3 would go a long way. It doesn't have to be crazy:

• Single long vent (with more premium wood)
• Horizontal screen (preferably 17" vs 15" on the 3)
• Small 4" IC or HUD to keep clean lines
• Phone dock in a similar location to the 3
• Door storage and auto-presenting doors on Model S
  
• Optional Bluetooth phone key

That would go a long way for me on the S/X.

The Model S and X don't support phone Bluetooth unlock unlike the Model 3?

 

[wdolson]

You can unlock the car with the phone app, but the fob is much easier to use and I think it works differently from the M3.

 

[u00mem9]

Here’s hoping the company that buys Tesla will initiate this imminent refresh!