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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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Tic-tac-toe
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Lots of cars have a higher top speed than the p100d not just the Bentley. Just about every 2 door sports coupe 200k+ supercars like the Bentley will have a higher top speed than 4 door full size family sedan P100D... but the P100D will beat every single one of these in 0 to 60 acceleration.
If Tesla were to transplant the S&X body to the M3 platform/ skateboard, would that necessitate full federal testing as a new car (increased costs)? It would allow it to go down the same M3 line.
Maybe Tesla is waiting a couple of years after the Truck, Semi, Roadster and Y before making such a move.
Maybe Tesla is waiting a couple of years after the Truck, Semi, Roadster and Y before making such a move.
If that is true, then I expect Tesla to announce it in tandem with the Truck unveiling this summer. The "One more thing" moment.
Then we should expect S&X news this Investor Day show.
ucmndd
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The Model 3 is a significantly smaller car. It doesn’t really work that way.
Its a platform, it can be stretched or shrunk, widened or narrowed. The Honda Accord and Civic are on the same platform though different sizes. BMW, and MB use the same platform under 75% of their product portfolio. Sharing the platform saves money and time, as Tesla is doing with the Y.
- It wouldn't fit.
- Yes, it is a different vehicle so it would require complete homologation including crash testing, EPA testing, etc.
That isn't how I have ever seen a platform defined. The platform is the "frame" and running gear. You can swap the body/interior out, but everything else remains the same. If you do any of that to the platform it is no longer the same platform with the same strength characteristics and would have to be re-engineered for the new size.
VW MBQ platform is another example of a platform engineered to be of various lengths and widths and is under the majority of its portfolio. Toyota’s new platform is under the Camry, Corolla and Prius to name a few. I would like to think Tesla engineers had the same forsight.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This is much easier to accomplish in a traditional ICE platform where the entire floor and vehicular structure aren't dictated by the battery modules. Furthermore the examples you're citing like the MQB aren't so much "platforms" as they are a modular collection of components that can be configured in a bunch of different formats and configurations to meet a specific need. That said, each unique configuration is rolling off its own assembly line in its own plant - it's not like the Audi A3 and VW Tiguan are seamlessly rolling down the same line like you suggest would be possible with a shared platform S/3.
A next-gen Model S may very well share a lot of platform characteristics with the Model 3, but I think it's a significant stretch (pun intended) to suggest that they're the same "platform" at that point or could share the same general assembly lines.
In the real world very few Tesla owners are ever going to touch the performance beyond the cheapest and lowest performance Tesla. There are enthusiasts who like to take their cars to the track, but they are a minority. Trying to get to the top end on public roadways, other than the German Autobahn is a risk both legally and for safety of everyone around.
When Tesla gets around to Version 2 Model S/X in a few years, they might take the Model 3 platform, stretch it and widen it for the new car, but any refresh coming this year is almost certainly going to be the same platform and body as the current cars.
When it comes to the ladies I think the panties come off for 0-60 in 2.28 second....
unfortunately, 200 mph top speed causes crapping of said panties. #mepoo
There will be a new S / X this year, bank on it. If I were to make bets I'd say a "one more thing" at the investor event orJune / July timeframe.
I thought this prediction by Troy on another forum was pretty detailed.
- New Model S/X will support Supercharger V3
- New Model S/X will have Track Mode
- Model S/X design refresh will include Model 3 style center console + touchscreen + air vents
- The new horizontal touchscreen in Model S/X will be dead center between the front seats just like Model 3. This has the following advantages:
• Passengers can watch movies too
• When driverless FSD is supported, passengers can see navigation, time left to destination, music playlist etc on the screen
• There won't be any need to create a vertical version of the firmware just for the low volume Model S/X. After the Model Y, Model S/X sales will drop to below 10% of Tesla sales.
• There is no need to create a different version for right-hand-drive cars when the screen is exactly in the center - To reduce complains about S/X screen switching from vertical to horizontal, they might mention that the horizontal screen will be better to watch movies on when they add video playback support and free Wi-Fi at Superchargers
- The new S/X battery will use 2170 cells
- The battery capacity will remain at 100 kWh
- There will be a minor range increase because of weight reduction. S100D range could increase from 335 mi to 350 mi
- I think there is now an urgency to make the switch sooner rather than later because Model S/X not supporting Supercharger V3 is like a slap in the face to new S/X buyers.
- I'm 80% sure of the timing. This is related to Tesla's quarterly production calendar. In the last few days of June, they will start making EU cars that will be delivered in Sep. Therefore if the switch is to happen in Q3, production must switch in the last few days of June. I don't know the exact date. Therefore I wrote around 25 June 2019. It could be 24 June or 26 June but I think it will be the last few days of June because as soon as it's too late to deliver cars in the US at the end of each quarter, production switches from US to EU. Similarly, the announcement could happen on 17 July or 19 July. I don't know the exact date. 18 July is a best-guess. By the way, check out my other prediction here about Autopilot which turned out to be OK.
The MQB and MLB are modular, meaning they are individual pieces that are transplanted to different vehicle frames. All the vehicles on the MQB are of similar size, and don't fit the vehicles using MLB setup. the same is true of the Tesla, they would be on completely different platforms. The audi A3 (telsa model 3) doesn't share the same platform as the Audi A7 (Model S). VW has at least a dozen different platform categories they use among their vehicles. the MQB covers about 2 dozen car models out of nearly 100 that the VW group makes.
The Camry is not on the same platform as the corolla or Prius, they are completely different sizes.
The new Camry, Corrolla and Prius to name a few ride on new TNGA platform. It can be stretched or widen to fit a particular product. As a matter of fact, the next gen Toyota Highlander CUV debuted on what platform? A version of TGNA.
Toyota New Global Architecture to Debut This Year, Likely on the New Prius - MotorTrend
Toyota's TNGA platform inspires changes to factory
Honda shared platform-and this is an old ariticle-
Honda Civic, Accord and CR-V to Share Platform » AutoGuide.com News
And back to the topic of VW's platform sharing-
https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-engineering-behind-vws-electric-car-pla-1829257860
The whole automotive world had gone to platform sharing to substantially lower costs and share parts (GM bastardized the concept in the 80s with it "look a like" cars). Maybe we are talking about the same thing, what you call "Modular", I and the automotive world just refer to it as a "platform". Tesla has found this religion in regards to the "Y" using M3 "platform".
My question about this has been answered by a post above. To move the S&X to a stretched M3 platform is cost prohibitive and require going through expensive Federal Certification.
With EM stating he has found a way to use less wiring in vehicles,and improved automation techniques, the next gen S&X will be on a new platform that the M3 and other vehicles will use in the future.
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The TNGA, Toyota Next Generation Architecture, is an architecture not a platform. The use that architecture to build multiple platforms.
From one of the articles you linkes:
You notice that they say they will introduce new platforms. That is plural. Sure they may be all based on the TNGA but they are each a different platform.
Those are two different articles, neither of which mentions the other vehicle, meaning the Camry and Prius/ Corolla are never mentioned in the same article. The Prius and Corolla are based on the C platform and the Camry sits on the K platform, two completely different things, the Corolla isn't built on the K and the the Camry isn't built on the C.
You're right, that is an old article and it's filled with things such as predict, may, might, should. None of which can be confirmed by and honda literature. That's like saying because the Corolla and Camry are both on Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA) platforms, they share the same platform. They simply don't, the Corolla sits on a TNGA-C platform and the Camry sits on the TNGA-K platform, similar names but completely different. It's akin to saying a Toyota Tundra and Toyota Prius are nearly identical because they are both labeled Toyota, they're nowhere close to similar because they say Toyota on them and the TNGA-C and TNGA-K are not the same thing simply because they both contain TNGA.
And were back to the topic of modular components and not shared platforms. The MQB, MEB, MLB and MSS are all modular platforms, but even here we see 4 modular platforms that don't even cover all of the VW lineup, you still have the A platform, B platform, T platform, the A0 platform and half a dozen more. By making something modular doesn't mean it can be shared among different size vehicles and doesn't mean they can be manufactured on the same assembly line.
The Y and 3 sharing the same platform doesn't make it modular you're taking a sedan and turning it into a hatchback there are no fundamental structural differences, they are different bodies on the same frame (platform) If tesla decides to make a modular platform then that would be completely different. Essentially all they would do is make two subframes connected to the battery and frame rails connecting everything. That's what the VW electric car essentially does, the smack some stuff on either end of the battery and call it good. That's what trucks do as well, they have 3 cab lengths and 2 bed lengths, so you smack some axles onto a frame of X size and you have half a dozen different trucks. but you aren't putting a corolla or ranger on that same platform because it will be either over or under engineered for the designed purpose. Yes you can put a Ranger on an F250 modular chassis but it'll be too stiff and heavy, the same if a 250 gets put on a ranger chassis, to flimsy and it'll fold.
The answer is they are different chassis with completely different requirements. The to make the model 3 compatible with the S platform they would have to over-engineer the 3 or put the 3 on a chassis designed for a much bigger and heavier vehicle. In the ICE world the engines all weigh the same, you're slapping some extra sheet metal on and you're good to go. With an EV you need to have a bigger battery for the same range with the extra weight. The original model 3 pack weighs about 1,000lbs the 100kwh pack weighs about 1,400, that's multiple passengers and cargo capacity that needs to be designed into the chassis
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