Cheburashka
Active Member
Interesting to see what would happen with the current MS and MX owners if they switch to a landscape screen/layout. Would they stop maintaining the "old" UI?
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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
While it of course makes sense for any manufacturing company to modularize parts and standardize build approaches as much as possible, the main point in all this "platform", "architecture", stretch-this-tuck-that hair splitting is that it's highly unlikely that any solution "would allow it to go down the same M3 line" as you originally claimed.
Even the platform/architecture sharing behemoths you mention above don't do this. It isn't feasible.
GoBlue88
Member
Count me among those who will be disappointed if they go with the floating center screen. I really like how the built-in screen looks on my Model S. I also like the portrait orientation better than the Model 3's landscape.
You sound like it's a bad thing. With every new update breaking so many MCUs, it will be a relief.
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
Wonder what the timing of the release will be.
It would be an intelligent strategic move to launch the refresh once the Taycan enters production - or at least the point of no return so that in keeping with Tesla's goal of upping more EV production - Tesla can be sure Porsche enters production without further delays, while Tesla still maintains the technological & performance lead with a redesign / refresh.
The Taycan was benchmarked on the current S not the refreshed one.
Anyone know when the Taycan goes into production ?
It would be an intelligent strategic move to launch the refresh once the Taycan enters production - or at least the point of no return so that in keeping with Tesla's goal of upping more EV production - Tesla can be sure Porsche enters production without further delays, while Tesla still maintains the technological & performance lead with a redesign / refresh.
The Taycan was benchmarked on the current S not the refreshed one.
Anyone know when the Taycan goes into production ?
Trashcan was benchmarked against the P85D, not the current best from Tesla.
People used that excuse when BMW released their first Superbike in 2009/10 because it was benchmarked off the K5 GSXR. Even 5 years later BMW released a rocket with features that started a technology arms race that continues a decade later. So to say that something was designed off a competitions old tech in no way means it's trash or won't meet muster. Some companies aren't worried about making numbers the selling point, porsche sells plenty of cars that are slower than a ferrari, GM sells plenty of trucks that aren't competing in a the torque war with Ford and RAM. Some companies realize that a vast majority of customers don't care what's on a spec sheet, they care about the vehicle and how it meets their needs.
sillydriver
Member
Most important for me (beyond screen orientation) is the presence of a display in front of the driver - either like what we have currently, or a very good HUD. If the interior design entirely followed the 3, so the speed appeared only on the center screen, that would be a deal breaker for me. For one thing, the larger width of the S means that data on a center display would be an even greater angle off the line of sight than in a 3.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, if the screen is proportionally larger along with the rest of the car.
David in NC
Member
I am merely rebutting the presumption that Porsche benchmarked against Tesla's present best lineup. You are otherwise misconstruing my comments.
I agree that customers might not care about specs and ultimately buy what they feel best meets their needs but there can be no denying that Porsche simply tries to obscure Tesla's quickness advantage with the "track ready" trope but ignoring the Model 3 performance can outdo their future offerings at present.
They want to both smear Tesla and yet attempt to gloss over deficiencies.
Don't kid yourself that stats don't sell or that companies don't take them very seriously -- just ask VW when they keep using old spec range estimates and low balling Tesla's range or Porsche claiming their EV is somehow a "driver's car" because it hails from a "German lineage."
sillydriver
Member
Not to get into the weeds on this, but the screen would need to be disproportionately larger. Assume everything about the car, including the size of the screen, is scaled up proportionately from the Model 3 to the new S. You'd think all the angles would be the same. But that would only be true if the fore-and-aft distance from the driver's eyes to the dash (or screen) is also scaled up. However that distance is not likely to get longer. The driver will set their seat so it is comfortable to hold the wheel, which depends on the length of their arms, something that doesn't scale up in a bigger car. So with all the distances side-to-side including the width of the screen increased, while the distance that the driver is behind the screen is not, the angle that the screen is off to the side increases. The screen size would need to be increased by a larger ratio than the overall size of the car in order to compensate for the fact that the length of the driver's arms is fixed.
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And tesla doesn't deceive like that? GTFO with that crap. Tesla talked about FSD since 2016 and promised it for years. Since then they're on their 3rd MCU/Computer. Didn't one of Elons tweets say that 2.5 used 80% of the computing power to run FSD? how much was 2.0 using? When are we even getting FSD? Tesla keeps talking about a cross country FSD demo and they keep pushing it back every time, when are we actually going to see what we were promised? Fact: Tesla has been selling vehicles with FSD that aren't capable of FSD.
Telsa deceives people just as much as anyone else, the reason you don't see GM or Toyota talking about FSD is because they know damn good and well it's not happening for a while and they aren't making promises they know they can't keep. The Fan Boi Tesla cult keeps giving Elon a pass because it's just that, a cult. People always say "at least Telsa is trying" You really think GM or Toyota and VAG aren't developing FSD tech? Again, GTFO if you think they aren't, they just don't brag about it and never deliver.
Look I love my car when Tesla keeps it's hands off, the company as a whole is complete *sugar*. I've worked in so many industries in my life and met even more through the military and my hobbies. I've sold motorcycles and cars, people really don't care about the specs; they want to know if it will fit their family, if it will haul their gear, and what's the MPG. 20% or less of people actually ask about specs like performance when purchasing a vehicle. I race motorcycles and you'd be surprised how many people don't even know how much HP their bike makes, they simply bought a zx-10 because their buddy has one, and their buddy bought one because Derek Wagnon set a track record on one. I was literally talking to a guy at a BBQ last weekend who didn't know the performance numbers on his Porsche 911, he just knew he drove a few cars and liked that one the most. When me and the girl went looking at Panameras she could care less about which model had what specs.
I mostly agree with your list, though I think the new battery pack will be bigger capacity than 100KWH. First if Tesla is going to differentiate the S and the 3, the S needs to be the clear range winner and secondly making a pack that is at least 110 KWH with 2170s is pretty easy in the existing space. The 2170 is more space efficient, and being a little less than 17% taller, the new modules will have to be a little taller (Jason Hughes thought there was enough space in the existing pack footprint for the extra 3mm), but that also means a nearly 17% gain in capacity from just the height alone. Even if the cells aren't packed as tight as the current pack due to more cooling, a 10% gain in capacity should be achievable. I think it will be closer to 20%.
I've only been in a Model 3 for a few minutes and I was able to see the display OK from the passenger seat. Is the screen oriented straight on in the M3? I haven't seen anything one way or the other. I think a good feature that wouldn't be too fantastically difficult to do would be to have the screen angle adjustable. It wouldn't have to shift much, but someone who needs to run the seat up to drive would be able to tilt the screen to see it better at their forward position, and it could be angled center for the passenger to view, or if the passenger was alone in the car they could angle it towards them if they wished.
The new S/X might also replace the center instrument cluster with a heads up display (HUD). Ultimately that would be cheaper than the instrument there now and would get S/X owners the instruments in front of them they are used to.
Subaru has been aggressively converting to a universal platform too. As @LCR1 pointed out, you can't have a universal platform for trucks and cars. Most trucks have more of the body on frame design and all cars are unibody now. The nature of the job they do vs weight savings pushes the two in opposite directions. However, modular platforms that can be essentially the same basic design which can be stretched and widened as needed are the trend in the car industry.
Within a few years the car companies with somewhat limited lines like Subaru will pretty much be one platform throughout their fleet and companies with a wider line up will be down to a few platforms. The limited production cars, like halo sports (Ford GT, Chevy Corvette, Nissan GT-R, etc.), cars will probably still have their own platforms, but they will also be very expensive.
And the S/X share the same platform now. They share the same battery packs, motors, and most of the electronics as well as the same core chassis. The instrument panel is moved forward in the X to make the passenger cabin bigger, and the body is taller, but the core is pretty much the same.
I doubt the refresh S will have the instrument panel moved forward because it would require redesigning the body, but gen 2 will probably have it further forward giving the car more passenger and cargo space.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
You really had me listening until your last sentence... who in their right mind would ever look at a Panamera voluntarily?
The bottom line is how much is each square meter of factory floor space is generating. Selling a small number of cars at a big profit brings in less than selling a lot of cars at a small profit. Back when the S and X were the only EVs with more than 250 miles of range, they could get away with selling them for $100K USD, and the factory space was making as much per square meter as possible.
Now with the Model 3 on the market and the Model Y coming soon, the S and X are no longer $100K cars. If Tesla can reduce the cost of production a fair bit, then pass that on to the consumer enabling them to sell the S and X for a smaller premium over the 3 and Y, and still turn a profit, they will sell more cars and be able to justify keeping the S and X lines open. If not, they are better off converting the S and X lines to Model 3 and Y production and dropping the bigger cars from their line up.
It's economic reality, you need to sell what's going to bring in money. Making $40K a car and selling 10,000 of them nets $400 million in profit. Selling 100,000 cars and only making $10K per car nets $1 billion profit. Even making only $5K profit on 100,000 cars is $500 million profit.
Now with the Model 3 on the market and the Model Y coming soon, the S and X are no longer $100K cars. If Tesla can reduce the cost of production a fair bit, then pass that on to the consumer enabling them to sell the S and X for a smaller premium over the 3 and Y, and still turn a profit, they will sell more cars and be able to justify keeping the S and X lines open. If not, they are better off converting the S and X lines to Model 3 and Y production and dropping the bigger cars from their line up.
It's economic reality, you need to sell what's going to bring in money. Making $40K a car and selling 10,000 of them nets $400 million in profit. Selling 100,000 cars and only making $10K per car nets $1 billion profit. Even making only $5K profit on 100,000 cars is $500 million profit.
freeewilly
Member
Agree, although I like the simplicity of Tesla's interior, but I think Model 3 went overboard. I want to see more information without switch between the apps.
I had the same view regarding Model 3 single screen and speedo in the center until I got a Model 3. Now I absolutely love the setup with one screen and prefer it over current S/X with two screens. It just easier and more logic with everything in one location (when you have adapted to it).
Many who doesn't like the Model 3 setup just have decided beforehand that it is a bad solution and probably haven't tested it in real life for a period of time. Everything takes a bit to get used to even if it is better.
It's like rebuilding the local grocery store. The old customers who have shopped there for 10 years initially complain because they can't find the milk or the tooth paste. But for a new customer it makes more sense and is more logic with the new store setup. After some time when even the old customers adapt, the new store layout turn out to be much better.
I really hope they copy the Model 3 setup into Model S/X update with the horizontal screen which I find better from a ergonomic point of view and I don't understand why I want to look through my steering wheel to find information? And to be honest I don't see the point of a HUD either. It's just a distracting light cluster in the windscreen that 99% of the time render useless info that I don't want to have in my line of sight when driving.
To those who is negative about the one screen setup in Model 3. If you was forced to use it for a couple of weeks I'm sure you would change your mind and realize that it is a great solution. This was the way for me at least to convert and now i prefer it and it feels strange each time I jump into a car with redundant info in HUD, behind the wheel and a third (or forth) screen in the middle console
Many who doesn't like the Model 3 setup just have decided beforehand that it is a bad solution and probably haven't tested it in real life for a period of time. Everything takes a bit to get used to even if it is better.
It's like rebuilding the local grocery store. The old customers who have shopped there for 10 years initially complain because they can't find the milk or the tooth paste. But for a new customer it makes more sense and is more logic with the new store setup. After some time when even the old customers adapt, the new store layout turn out to be much better.
I really hope they copy the Model 3 setup into Model S/X update with the horizontal screen which I find better from a ergonomic point of view and I don't understand why I want to look through my steering wheel to find information? And to be honest I don't see the point of a HUD either. It's just a distracting light cluster in the windscreen that 99% of the time render useless info that I don't want to have in my line of sight when driving.
To those who is negative about the one screen setup in Model 3. If you was forced to use it for a couple of weeks I'm sure you would change your mind and realize that it is a great solution. This was the way for me at least to convert and now i prefer it and it feels strange each time I jump into a car with redundant info in HUD, behind the wheel and a third (or forth) screen in the middle console
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Tiger
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