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Model Y 2024 new range estimates
- Thread starter TimothyHW3
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johnnycnote
Member
johnnycnote
Member
This is due to new 2024 EPA rules
Closer to real world driving conditions
Nothing having to do with batteries
No 4680s, they are exclusive to CT
ven7782
Member
They have actually done that many times in the past...And most people hardly understand what "capacity" of the battery means, they will still buy the car as they have no frame of reference
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Where that?! Link?! A "Tesla fam boy" stated that and a lot of people are quoting him on that...
They don't have to use CATL, they can reduce the capacity on the LGs or Panasonics to lower costs of the car as their margins have shrunk.
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"For whatever reason"
This right here is the definition of unqualified comment. Math doesn't add up to claim EPA change, but then just add "for whatever reason"For everybody else:
Model 3 range didn't change
Model Y RWD didn't change
1. There is no new EPA Test for the changed models
2. You don't change EPA on "select models" if the testing changed for all.
As much as you guys don't like to , it all points out to lowering capacity of the battery pack for some models. And yes, Tesla has done this in the past...
As for 4680s, it is highly unlikely to use them on the LR as they don't quite work, but Tesla has used them in the past and is still using them today?
Do we know which batteries Tesla uses in the states for which model? I lost track. It seems there were 4680s even for AWD Model Ys according to this video?
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E90alex
Active Member
Tesla has not lowered battery capacity unless they changed battery suppliers. 2023 Model 3 LR in the US went to LG cells which were lower density than the previous Panasonic cells.
There is zero reason for Tesla to change battery suppliers or lower the battery capacity of the Model Y. Panasonic didn’t just decide to make their battery cells worse. They wouldn’t change the US market Model Y to LG cells because then where would all the Panasonic cells form Giga Nevada go to? Also that would make the Model Y ineligible for the tax credit. They wouldn’t switch all Model Y to 4680 because 1) they can’t make nearly enough to supply the Model Y and Cybertruck and 2) even the gen 2 4680 cells in the Cybertruck don’t have enough energy density to match the new range figures for the Model Y.
There is zero reason for Tesla to change battery suppliers or lower the battery capacity of the Model Y. Panasonic didn’t just decide to make their battery cells worse. They wouldn’t change the US market Model Y to LG cells because then where would all the Panasonic cells form Giga Nevada go to? Also that would make the Model Y ineligible for the tax credit. They wouldn’t switch all Model Y to 4680 because 1) they can’t make nearly enough to supply the Model Y and Cybertruck and 2) even the gen 2 4680 cells in the Cybertruck don’t have enough energy density to match the new range figures for the Model Y.
I think they actually did exactly that. The AWD in the video above has 67kWh usable. This adds quite well to the new estimates on the website if they just add a few more cells and lower the capacity.
And your point 1 and 2 actually confirm the suspicion that they have to lower the capacity, because they don't have enough cells ... They can still lower the capacity on the Panasonics in the Plaids to lower costs.
Besides, you still didn't answer the rest questions - if there is a new EPA test, where is it? There is none.
Why only Y and S and not 3 which we know doesn't use the 4680s and doesn't qualify for the tax credit. Why not the Y RWD?
@AlanSubie4Life do you have an idea what types of batteries Tesla is using for the Model Y nowadays in the US?
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You're making a lot of guesses and assumptions.
The EPA made adjustments to their tests for EVs, which took effect in 2024.
Which has a link to https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=55592&flag=1 (that's the government's website). The short is, testing has changed to make additional assumptions about the driver's "aggressiveness" affecting the "MPG" because the vehicle has multiple "drive modes." The results should be the average of the modes. Also note something a bit interesting... in an EPA document. Federal Register :: Request Access (again, a government site), there are a bunch of formulas. You know what that means? It means a bunch of "results" can be changed, even if the base measurements are the same. Just because the formula changed. It isn't hard to imagine they had all the numbers for all the drive modes recorded, so they could just quickly get an average.
I don't know how much trust one should put in "YT Analysts," but there are a few that say the 4680 batteries are currently prioritized for the Cybertruck. Additionally, one of the reasons that CT production is limited is that it's limited by the battery production.
Some websites claim the reason the MY RWD doesn't get changed is because its already based on the new test parameters. The letter is from middle of 2022... when was the MY RWD (re?)introduced? In October of 2023.
Again, I don't know how true that is, but it makes more sense than them "suddenly" swapping batteries in multiple models. If nothing else, there would be TONS of rumors about it prior to now.
You can, if the EPA says you can.
Oh, I just saw, while the M3P didn't change their range, the M3LR did. It used to be 358, which... surprise surprise, drops about 6-7% to 333.
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Correct, none of them are reflected on the Model Y. Send me the link where the EPA tested the Model Y, it is public information and easily available...
No, they have to test it and publish it. "Goto" 1 above...
Ok, so you really have no idea what you are talking about...
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TomServo
Active Member
Ok, so I guess Tesla put that simple "EPA lowered their test procedures" explanation to rest. They confirm in an Email that they changed the configuration of their X, WHICH RESULTED in the EPA testing their vehicle and getting less range "UNDER THE NEW CONDITIONS".
They claim that "it requires more battery", but this could be a combination of less battery capacity + new chips/other features. For example, with the AMD Ryzon it was using more power in idle.
Which is basic commen sense as you wouldn't just randomly remove 10% on different trims...
Most of the time you can't trust what Tesla is telling you - for example in Europe they were selling the same Model 3s LR for 6 months with the same price tag with 2kWh difference and battery specs between cars. Same car, same price, but you got a lottery ticket with different batteries and specs.
So it definetely is a change in the cars - wether it is lower battery capacity, other features, combination of both, we will know only if somebody tests it via OBD dongle.
There you go, there were differences in the cars as predicted. Most of the time using common sense and not blindly copying stuff you read online is beneficial.
They claim that "it requires more battery", but this could be a combination of less battery capacity + new chips/other features. For example, with the AMD Ryzon it was using more power in idle.
Which is basic commen sense as you wouldn't just randomly remove 10% on different trims...
Most of the time you can't trust what Tesla is telling you - for example in Europe they were selling the same Model 3s LR for 6 months with the same price tag with 2kWh difference and battery specs between cars. Same car, same price, but you got a lottery ticket with different batteries and specs.
So it definetely is a change in the cars - wether it is lower battery capacity, other features, combination of both, we will know only if somebody tests it via OBD dongle.
There you go, there were differences in the cars as predicted. Most of the time using common sense and not blindly copying stuff you read online is beneficial.
No, you are confusing things. The "chinese batteries" you are reffering to are CATL. They are used in the SR, which doesn't have 333 miles. The 333 miles is a Long range model. It used to have Panasonic, but they changed to LG, from Korea, not China (Asia, still, yes...) This is why Model 3 doesn't have the tax credit in the US from 2024 onwards, because of the korean batteries...The Model 3 performance uses/used? Panasonic and they still qualify.
They also put an AMD Ryzon chip which uses a little bit more power in idle for the computer and hence the estimation of 333 miles.
Guys, I understand Tesla is confusing, they change a lot of things, a lot of things are unknown, but I mean this is a semi-ehtusiasts forum. If you are not factual about things or have some loopholes, just don't comment on that...
So Tesla is changing a lot of things here and there. Fact is - they are changing something in the specs - wether it is the battery reduction/something else causing more power (unlikely 10%) or a combination of both (most likely) - we can't know, but it is not "just" - EPA changed their guidelines...
By the way, if Tesla indeed changed "something in the comfort" of the car (total bull...), how likely is it that cars with different weights and configurations, will receive an exact 10% decrease, equivalent to let's say decrease in equal amount of capacity for both cars?! And not just an X amount of less capacity, where X is equivalent in each car...
And how likely is it, that "comfort and functionality" changes that give the user 10% less range, but are so great, that Tesla HAD to do it with the cost of less range, Tesla wouldn't advertise the heck out of these functionalities and just briefly mention them in between the lines, without explaining what they are?!
And how likely is it, that "comfort and functionality" changes that give the user 10% less range, but are so great, that Tesla HAD to do it with the cost of less range, Tesla wouldn't advertise the heck out of these functionalities and just briefly mention them in between the lines, without explaining what they are?!
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ven7782
Member
The news article clearly said the new EPA guidelines caused a revision in range. There was no battery change. Did you even read?
E90alex
Active Member
Your “facts” are wrong.
The LG cells are made in China. The same cells used at Giga Shanghai for Model 3/Y that are exported to the rest of the world. Korea is not an “entity of concern” so if they were sourced from Korea it would be fine.
Ryzen MCU has been used since 2022 and does not contribute to a reduction in range. I have a 2022 3 LR with Ryzen, Panasonic battery, and 358mi EPA est.
Panasonic cells used by S/X are different than 3/Y. S/X uses 18650 cells and are made by Panasonic in Japan. 3/Y uses 2170 cells made by Panasonic at Giga Nevada.
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