Thanks for the info. How does back seat space and ride comfort compare between these 2? MY is very comfortable with plenty of leg room, how does ID.4 compare? Also is ID.4 trunk storage space significant smaller? Thanks.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model Y Alternatives?
- Thread starter snowbunny
- Start date
Around here the dealerships are putting a price premium on their ID.4s. Don't seem many of them on the street. No Supercharging make it a problem for those wanting go drive out of town.
Some would never buy a VW due their corrupt Diesel Gate history. Claiming "clean diesel" but just rigging the computer to pass emissions testing while still polluting like crazy in daily driving.
Some would never buy a VW due their corrupt Diesel Gate history. Claiming "clean diesel" but just rigging the computer to pass emissions testing while still polluting like crazy in daily driving.
And Elon's rockets contribute more to climate change than that lie ever did. None of us have truly clean hands environmentally. I'm glad VW is headed in the right direction now, and faulting them forever for past mistakes seems like a slippery slope. Don't see too many people avoiding Mercedes or BMW because they made Nazi warplane engines.
OP, have you considered a hybrid? Look into the 2022 Lexus NX 350h. Pretty good fuel savings unless you are stuck on an EV. Also, every time I seem to be settled on getting a Tesla I see comments like the one below. I like to keep my vehicles for a long time, if I did that with a Tesla, will any out of warranty expenses offset the EV savings through ownership. See below when someone compared Lexus Rx to Model Y to see my concern. What does everyone think?
From
:
"Couple of thoughts: What if you don't drive 15K a year AND you don't sell your car at the end of 5 years? What is the the look and feel of the Lexus vs the Tesla? Say you keep your car for 20 years (as my wife and I do), how do you suppose the interior will hold up? I know how the Lexus interior will hold up (one of the best built cars out there). I know what the average number and a costs of repairs is for a 2001 Lexus. I have no idea what a 20 year old M-Y will look or feel like ... And once out of warranty, the repair costs are pretty intimidating ... A motor replacement or a worst case battery replacement after 8 years could easily erase much of the proposed savings ... I'm not knocking a M-Y or any Tesla, but we have all seen the displays go out on older Model S's, and that associated cost. We have seen out of warranty cost for a rear motor replacement too. Once out of warranty, Tesla's are looking pretty scary. Until we get a better and more competitive parts replacement model for Tesla's, they don't look great for long term ownership ..."
From
"Couple of thoughts: What if you don't drive 15K a year AND you don't sell your car at the end of 5 years? What is the the look and feel of the Lexus vs the Tesla? Say you keep your car for 20 years (as my wife and I do), how do you suppose the interior will hold up? I know how the Lexus interior will hold up (one of the best built cars out there). I know what the average number and a costs of repairs is for a 2001 Lexus. I have no idea what a 20 year old M-Y will look or feel like ... And once out of warranty, the repair costs are pretty intimidating ... A motor replacement or a worst case battery replacement after 8 years could easily erase much of the proposed savings ... I'm not knocking a M-Y or any Tesla, but we have all seen the displays go out on older Model S's, and that associated cost. We have seen out of warranty cost for a rear motor replacement too. Once out of warranty, Tesla's are looking pretty scary. Until we get a better and more competitive parts replacement model for Tesla's, they don't look great for long term ownership ..."
Lordy, I wish people would stop reporting numbers like that -- they're meaningless and useless. There's no way for the units, or anyone, to tell me how many miles I'll get from a given charge. The important question is how many kWh can it deliver.- based on that, every driver will get a different number of miles out of it, on different days at different locations. The Supercharger I stopped at tonight is capable of up to 250kWh, however tonight, at -20C, I was only getting about 60kWh, unfortunately. On previous days I've gotten over 225 kWh.
Fewer and fewer cars will be able to be kept for that long any more, in my opinion -- the more technology in a car, the shorter its life will be, and all cars, including ICE cars, are running on computers and relying on more technology.
Rear seat legroom is pretty much my specialty. Why? Because I'm 6'3" 260lbs and have twins turning 4 next month lol. As you can imagine practically anything I drive outside of a Suburban feels cramped lol. My kids are constantly kicking my seats!
I'm happy to report there appears to be a very similar amount of rear legroom in the rear seats. In some ways, it feels like the ID.4 has a bit more legroom, but it's primarily due to the more upright driving position on the ID.4. The Model Y stills feel like you get in, sit down and lean back into it a bit. (FYI.. the Model 3 feels like you sitting down in a bathtub, exactly why I didn't bother with it). Whereas the ID.4 has the more traditional crossover SUV feel where you feel like you are sitting on top of things.
The kids definitely kick my seat LESS in the ID.4 than they do in the Model Y. And we have the exact same full-size convertible car seats in both the Model Y and ID.4. I've actually taken a ton of pictures of the seats installed and exactly how the kids fit. My wife and I are big people, so fitting properly in the car was the most important factor before trading in previous vehicles that were both bigger (VW Atlas & Honda CRV) than what we drive now.
When we first test drove the ID.4, I also was pretty excited to see that I could configure the driver's seat comfortably for my driving position, then immediately get in the passenger seat behind that position and still sit comfortably. This is my quick test to see if legroom is usable or not.
Ive found the Ioniq5 to be much more expensive. Equal trims seem about $5,000 more.. possibly more on the absolute top Limited trim which runs up to about $58,000.
$8,500 price difference + $7,500 tax credit means the equivalent ID.4 will still be $16,000 cheaper than the Model Y. And I find it hard to believe there are people purchasing brand new $50,000 EV's.. but somehow do not have $7,500 in tax liability.
You are right though.. the Tech does not compare. But probably not from the perspective you were expecting. It is absolutely amazing how many things I've found on my wife's ID.4.. that are missing from my Model Y:
- Intelligent turning LED headlights that move with the vehicle steering wheel
- Hands-free foot tailgate (kick your foot under the bumper to open)
- Separate Drivers cockpit LCD with speed/battery/driver assistance
- Ambient interior lighting w/color changing LEDs
- Massage front seats
- Traditional blind-spot monitoring with LED's on the side mirrors
- Rear cross-traffic alerts with automatic braking
- Powered sunshade for the glass panoramic roof
- Apple CarPlay & Android Auto (wired or wireless)
- 4G/LTE hotspot with internet sharing
Look I get it. The Tesla is faster, cooler, promises self-driving technology, and has the superior Supercharger network. It also has a significantly better smartphone app. The ID4 feels like a traditional Crossover SUV.. the Model Y feels like a sporty performance SUV. That said I stick by why I originally said and I can tell you with a straight face... If you go drive BOTH the ID.4 and Model Y back to back.. the absolute most outstanding difference.. will be why does Model Y cost $20,000 more than the ID.4?
Last edited:
I also want to add a separate item for discussion. Charging network.
This is a very important discussion for those shopping for non-Tesla EVs.
It seems like the big hurrah among the Tesla crowd is how much more "superior" the Supercharger network is. And it is, I've Supercharged from Chicago to NYC to DC with no problems. That said from my experience, the Electrify America network is working much better than I expected too based on what I heard from the Tesla crowd. And EA has more locations than I expected. If I had only listened to Tesla owners I would think EA chargers were extremely hard to find and that all of them were broken. Instead, I've purposely charged up my wife's ID.4 in 3 separate EA locations around the DC metro area.. and it has been problem-free every time. I even love that many of them are located in shopping centers like Walmart because it allows me to run and do some errands versus just sitting in a car or getting sugary snacks & drinks out of another gas station convenience store.
Admittingly.. there are a few variables involved that I'm sure have added to this super positive initial experience. We do live on the East Coast and apparently, there are more EA chargers on the East Coast, than anywhere else. We specifically live in the DC metro which is engulfed by 100's of EV chargers & charging networks (there is no such thing as range anxiety in DC). And the furthest I ever expect my wife to actually drive this car is NYC.. which also has tons of chargers (including EA chargers that go up to 350kW).
Finally, I don't care about driving my EV across the entire U.S.A. because it's something I will never do. If I even dared do something like that, I would at least rent the biggest 3row ICE SUV possible with unlimited mileage and never worry about any charging headaches or being stuck in a cramped mid-size vehicle 2000+ miles. That said I still have zero interest in doing anything like that with an ICE.. why would I do it with an EV? So I brag that I took a 2000mile road trip and only spent $30 on charging. If I'm going on a trip, my goal is to spend as much time at the destination as possible.. not to spend as much time in a vehicle as possible. So anything more than about 300 miles away.. I'm getting on an airplane. These are all reasons why we had no problem buying a non-Tesla EV.
That said, My point is to make sure you are getting advice from people who actually drive non-Tesla EV's.. and most importantly.. are ACTIVELY USING non-Tesla DC fast charger networks. Bias confirmation is very real. I find that many people who have bad things to say about the EA charging network, probably never have an EA charger in the first place. Let's be real.. Tesla owners in the US (like myself) are still waiting for the official Tesla CCS adapter so we can even experiment with these EA chargers for ourselves and with our own vehicles. This means many Tesla owners are simply sharing something they read or saw someone else, probably Youtubers or Tesla bloggers when commenting on how well (or not well) EA charging network currently works.
FWIW.. there are actually a few 3rd party CCS-to-Tesla adapters available right now. But I'm honestly still not sure how many of these are even enabled to work with the high-powered 350kW DCFC networks like EA. Now that Tesla has officially CCS charging via recent firmware update, Tesla has an official CCS adapter and other 3rd party Tesla CCS adapters come to market... I'm sure we get a much more realistic view from Tesla owners of just how well the EA charging network does indeed work. This particular example with EA chargers was just as eye-opening as my experience with my wife's ID4:
insideevs.com
This is a very important discussion for those shopping for non-Tesla EVs.
It seems like the big hurrah among the Tesla crowd is how much more "superior" the Supercharger network is. And it is, I've Supercharged from Chicago to NYC to DC with no problems. That said from my experience, the Electrify America network is working much better than I expected too based on what I heard from the Tesla crowd. And EA has more locations than I expected. If I had only listened to Tesla owners I would think EA chargers were extremely hard to find and that all of them were broken. Instead, I've purposely charged up my wife's ID.4 in 3 separate EA locations around the DC metro area.. and it has been problem-free every time. I even love that many of them are located in shopping centers like Walmart because it allows me to run and do some errands versus just sitting in a car or getting sugary snacks & drinks out of another gas station convenience store.
Admittingly.. there are a few variables involved that I'm sure have added to this super positive initial experience. We do live on the East Coast and apparently, there are more EA chargers on the East Coast, than anywhere else. We specifically live in the DC metro which is engulfed by 100's of EV chargers & charging networks (there is no such thing as range anxiety in DC). And the furthest I ever expect my wife to actually drive this car is NYC.. which also has tons of chargers (including EA chargers that go up to 350kW).
Finally, I don't care about driving my EV across the entire U.S.A. because it's something I will never do. If I even dared do something like that, I would at least rent the biggest 3row ICE SUV possible with unlimited mileage and never worry about any charging headaches or being stuck in a cramped mid-size vehicle 2000+ miles. That said I still have zero interest in doing anything like that with an ICE.. why would I do it with an EV? So I brag that I took a 2000mile road trip and only spent $30 on charging. If I'm going on a trip, my goal is to spend as much time at the destination as possible.. not to spend as much time in a vehicle as possible. So anything more than about 300 miles away.. I'm getting on an airplane. These are all reasons why we had no problem buying a non-Tesla EV.
That said, My point is to make sure you are getting advice from people who actually drive non-Tesla EV's.. and most importantly.. are ACTIVELY USING non-Tesla DC fast charger networks. Bias confirmation is very real. I find that many people who have bad things to say about the EA charging network, probably never have an EA charger in the first place. Let's be real.. Tesla owners in the US (like myself) are still waiting for the official Tesla CCS adapter so we can even experiment with these EA chargers for ourselves and with our own vehicles. This means many Tesla owners are simply sharing something they read or saw someone else, probably Youtubers or Tesla bloggers when commenting on how well (or not well) EA charging network currently works.
FWIW.. there are actually a few 3rd party CCS-to-Tesla adapters available right now. But I'm honestly still not sure how many of these are even enabled to work with the high-powered 350kW DCFC networks like EA. Now that Tesla has officially CCS charging via recent firmware update, Tesla has an official CCS adapter and other 3rd party Tesla CCS adapters come to market... I'm sure we get a much more realistic view from Tesla owners of just how well the EA charging network does indeed work. This particular example with EA chargers was just as eye-opening as my experience with my wife's ID4:
Charging Tesla Model S Via CCS At Electrify America Is Fast, Cheap
Tesla cars in North America are equipped with the company's proprietary charging port - not compatible with the CCS Combo 1 plugs. But this Tesla can use CCS1.
insideevs.com
Last edited:
Because it is $16,000, similar trim, as stated above, if you qualify for the full tax credit for the time being...
I had a good look at the id4 at a local dealer before easily choosing the Model Y. Model Y was $6,500 cheaper than now when I ordered, and they didn't mess with the price as dealers are wont to do.
Not sure how I forgot about the garage door opener. ID.4 came with 3 button Homelink garage door opener.
Tesla charges an extra $325 for that. And its something that has to be installed with a separate service visit, its not installed directly from the factory.
Which of these are standard equipment, and which are upgrades? Is the price of these upgrades factored into your cost comparison (genuine question)?
Where I live (Switzerland) it does not. Indeed, when trying to compare like-to-like, the Model Y might actually be cheaper here than the ID.4.
gx9901
Active Member
That's some good info you're providing on the ID.4. Thanks!
I'm curious if you would swap cars with your wife if you could?
You'd have to check the VW website for specific details.. there are only like 4 available paid options for the car so it's pretty easy to figure out what comes with what. Because the ID.4 was so hard to locate at the end of last year (and we really wanted to take delivery before 12/31 so the tax rebate could qualify on the 2021 year).. we literally purchased the first one found at MSRP.
Her car was $48K including delivery, the Pro S package (adds leather & features), the Gradient package (bigger wheels & chrome accents), and special red metallic paint. If I was configuring this car for purchase.. I'd definitely get the Pro S & AWD package.. but skip anything appearance-related to include the Gradient & special red metallic paint. I think free, basic flat gray paint looks fantastic and the basic 19" wheels are better looking than the hubcaps on the Model Y.
What's really crazy is she didn't even want the ID.4. She wanted the Audi Q4 Etron. However, we warned deliveries of that wouldn't happen until April of this year. So we took the ID.4 as we could use it right now, get the tax credits right now and probably trade it for the Audi Q4 later this year. Now that she has the ID.4 we are both pretty satisfied with the bargain it delivers and I wouldn't be surprised to see her keep it a few years.
Last edited:
I've strongly considered selling my MYSR and walking away with almost $18K in profit right now. Buying a bare bones ID.4 and driving it for a year or two until prices on Model Y become more competitive and big changes like the 4680 cell, structural battery pack, and Austin-built Model Y's are a common thing.
Unfortunately with the market the way it is now it's really hard to find dealers with practically any EVs in stock. And when they do have stock it's probably because there are market adjustments added. That said you can find MME, ID4, Ioniq5 at MSRP if you look hard enough. And you have to be ready to act fast because there are 100s of other people looking for the same cars at the same price and everybody is aggressively buying anything that looks close to a bargain.
As far as physically swapping cars.. I find myself driving her car a lot more than I thought I would. Its easier to get the kids in/out for dropoff and pickup daily and I absolutely love having CarPlay back. Finally the suspension and ride in the ID.4 is so much more comfortable and relaxing to drive especially during a winter full of halfway plowed streets, potholes, and all the other crap on the road that make my teeth rattle in the Model Y.
So I've taken a look, and in fact the US VW configurator is completely different to the Swiss one. US configurator is more streamlined, the models have much more comprehensive standard equipment, and cheaper than Switz. Also, looks like here you can only have AWD if you get the GTX version.
I didnt even realize they sold different versions in Europe. Yeah in the US our list is really very basic. They all have the same 77kWh battery pack. So its really do you want to pay $3,600 more for AWD.. and $4000 for the Pro Statment package that gives you leather, sunroof, etc. Base price is right over $40K.. and freight is $1100.. so you figure $50K should get you pretty damn close to a fully spec'd car.
